Oct. 23, 2019

Are Abortion Minded Women Victims?

Are Abortion Minded Women Victims?

As prolife people we certainly believe that unborn children killed by abortion are victims. However, should we view women who have had or are considering abortion as victims as well? Daniel and Vicky tackle this subject from a scriptural and practical...


As prolife people we certainly believe that unborn children killed by abortion are victims. However, should we view women who have had or are considering abortion as victims as well? Daniel and Vicky tackle this subject from a scriptural and practical perspective.

charlotte.cities4life.org

www.sidewalks4life.com  

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.509 I am your. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In 3 00:00:10.630 --> 00:00:13.910 this episode we're going to ask the question. Are Women who've had abortions or 4 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:18.589 women considering abortion victims? This is an important question, so please stay with 5 00:00:18.670 --> 00:00:34.700 us. I felt show passish touch your all right, welcome to the Gospel 6 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:38.689 Center pro life podcasts. We're going to talk about or ask the question, 7 00:00:39.130 --> 00:00:45.770 or abortion minded women victims or aboard of women? Are they victims? There's 8 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:50.119 a lot, you know, in pro life circles and people talk about the 9 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.799 victimization of women through abortion and certainly, you know, we're going to talk 10 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:57.759 about some of that. How there are certainly women that are victims. Yeah, 11 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.560 but there's this mentality that people have that, you know, women are 12 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.510 simply just victims of the abortion industry, victims of Plan Parenthood, victims of 13 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:11.870 you know whatever, abortion pushing politicians or whatever. And you certainly there's some 14 00:01:12.590 --> 00:01:17.709 truth to that, but there's a mentality that I think we need to we 15 00:01:17.790 --> 00:01:22.420 need to address and that we need to have and have an understanding of as 16 00:01:22.540 --> 00:01:26.659 prolifers. That and that we need to address. We need to reject that 17 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.659 women are just simply victims it. You know, the the the old adage, 18 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.810 I guess, that there are two victims in an abortion. And while 19 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.450 that can be true in some sense, it's not entirely true and I think 20 00:01:40.450 --> 00:01:42.370 we need to look at it from you know, there's sort of a big 21 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:46.969 picture thing, right. Abortion is sin. It's one of many sins that 22 00:01:47.090 --> 00:01:52.040 human beings create and that societies embrace. And you know, if we just 23 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.879 embrace the idea that abortion minded women are a board of women are victims and 24 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.959 as everyone else who commit sin, or they also victims. And you know, 25 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.269 one sense yes, but in one sense no. We have to reject 26 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:07.909 the victim mentality, right. Or if you are a victim, is it 27 00:02:07.069 --> 00:02:13.669 okay to to do it, terrible sin, in order to somehow get out 28 00:02:13.669 --> 00:02:17.659 of the mess that has been created thrust upon you? Yes, a victim, 29 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:22.539 that's good. The important question, you know, based on just saying 30 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:27.620 that, and we were talking before we started recording about the the situation, 31 00:02:27.659 --> 00:02:30.250 maybe I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but I think it has a 32 00:02:30.289 --> 00:02:32.650 lot of theological implications. We talked about the first murder, we talked about 33 00:02:32.650 --> 00:02:38.169 Kane enable. Yeah, and and you matter of fact was just jump into 34 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:44.050 that. I'll read that that portion of scripture it it was interesting because I 35 00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:46.800 was reading it this morning and it really did jump out to me that it 36 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:51.759 actually related very much to what we were talking about the first murder. What 37 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:57.080 motivated it? What was God's response? What were the people involved their response? 38 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.469 Yeah, yeah, so this is in genesis chapter four and it talks 39 00:03:00.509 --> 00:03:05.310 about how Kane and Abel to when you were born. Says that Abel was 40 00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:07.750 a keeper of sheep, but Kane was a tiller of the ground and in 41 00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:13.300 the process of time came that cain brought an offering of fruit to the Lord 42 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:15.939 the free of the ground, and able also brought the for the first fruit 43 00:03:16.300 --> 00:03:20.659 of his flock, of their fat, and the Lord respected able and his 44 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:25.219 offering, but he but he did not respect Kane and his offering. And 45 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:29.370 there's a lot of stuff people go with that try to figure out why he 46 00:03:29.530 --> 00:03:34.050 honored Abeles sacrifice they didn't honor Kane sacrifice. I don't think that's really part 47 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:38.009 of what we're going to be talking about. But basically, as the Lord 48 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:40.409 goes on, it says that Kane or ISS a scripture goes on, it 49 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:44.159 says Kane was very angry and his countenance fell, and so the Lord said 50 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.599 the Kane, why are you angry? Why is your Countenan's fallen? If 51 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.520 you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not 52 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.080 do well, sin lies at the door and it's desires for you. But 53 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.710 you should rule it, you should rule over it. And it says Kane 54 00:03:57.750 --> 00:03:59.870 talked with his brother Abe. When it came to pass, as they were 55 00:03:59.909 --> 00:04:01.509 in the field, Kane rose up against Abel, his brother, and killed 56 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.750 him. And so that's sort of that. That's the first murder, right. 57 00:04:05.870 --> 00:04:10.460 We believe the abortion is murder, right, and that's the first murder. 58 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:13.979 That's that was committed and we can talk a little bit about you know, 59 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:16.379 I did see as I was reading this, I could see where Kane 60 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:20.259 could consider himself a victim. I'm not saying he was yet that that's a 61 00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:24.970 good or correct perception, but I think you could make the case for it. 62 00:04:25.170 --> 00:04:29.569 He he was rejected, he was not respected. It said that Abel's 63 00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:33.769 offering was respected. Canes was not so. So right away we know that 64 00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:40.680 Kane felt disrespected. His countenance fell, which means to me feels depressed, 65 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:46.199 just depressed. He's angry, he's depressed, he's been hurt and he's been 66 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:51.279 hurt by presumably the one that he wants to please. We would assume that 67 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:58.709 he brought his offering at least with some desire to please and some degree of 68 00:04:58.790 --> 00:05:03.389 obedience, right, and and so and and it was rejected. And so, 69 00:05:04.389 --> 00:05:08.819 you know, I can relate. I mean you could say one sense 70 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:15.060 Kane was traumatized most exactly. And and was his response at to we get 71 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:19.500 to his response yet I don't think we did to Caine's response, that that 72 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:24.009 he murdered. Yeah, we read, we were there. So his response 73 00:05:24.129 --> 00:05:28.930 was clearly not a good response, not a healthy response, but it was 74 00:05:29.009 --> 00:05:32.250 a response of in in one way, you could look at it, of 75 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:41.079 a victim, h traumatized, hurt, damaged by by God. Yeah, 76 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.399 and and his response was murder. Yeah, and I think that is not 77 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.389 all that different in some ways of what we see at at an abortion center, 78 00:05:49.430 --> 00:05:54.949 right or in any sort of sin. When we look at those situations, 79 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.870 that we can say, you know, you people ultimately are victims of 80 00:05:59.550 --> 00:06:02.110 you know, our own our own sin, our own decisions that we make. 81 00:06:02.230 --> 00:06:04.740 We're victims of a fallen world. At this point. You know, 82 00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:09.579 Kane was in the fallen world. Adam and eve had already sinned and and 83 00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:13.779 they were ejected from the garden. And so, you know, he could 84 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:16.180 say he was a victim, I guess. But one of the things that 85 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:18.889 I that we have to be careful of them. We're talking about in particular 86 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:25.810 about abortion minded women, are post abortive women, is sort of giving some 87 00:06:26.009 --> 00:06:30.529 kind of almost like leeway to that sort of behavior, that because they're victims, 88 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:32.720 because they were in difficult situations, therefore we should look at them in 89 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:38.639 a particular way. Right, and the perspective is different. was certainly with 90 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.160 abortion minded women and post abortive women. We shouldn't look at them as less 91 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.759 than human beings, we shouldn't look at them as like just filthy and we 92 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.709 should not talk to him or anything like that. But the other mentality of 93 00:06:50.829 --> 00:06:54.629 we should just look at them and vic as victims is not right either. 94 00:06:54.829 --> 00:07:00.269 And it's because abortion is a sin like many other sins, right that people 95 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:04.100 choose to do right. If we if we see abortion as a different sin, 96 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:09.620 then we're sort of falling into the trap of making abortion somehow worse than 97 00:07:09.699 --> 00:07:12.779 other sins. And it is worse than some other sins, that's sure. 98 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.620 I think in the Scripture we see that there there's a sin that leads to 99 00:07:15.699 --> 00:07:18.449 death and it's and not not leading to death. So we do see this, 100 00:07:19.129 --> 00:07:21.209 that there are sins that are worse than others, and that can be 101 00:07:21.250 --> 00:07:27.370 a conversation for a whole other or whole other podcast. But if you look, 102 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.839 but if you victims, you can also look at it almost that well, 103 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.439 they can't help it. It is almost express sort of where I'm going. 104 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.120 Okay, yeah, we're it excuses that behavior, right, and just 105 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.519 as much as it does not excuse the behavior of a woman who, you 106 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:46.470 know, abuses and murder her three year old because she's he was raising about 107 00:07:46.509 --> 00:07:50.189 a family and her boyfriend was abusive. You know, the mother who murders 108 00:07:50.230 --> 00:07:55.870 her child three weeks or maybe three months old in the womb. Is Still, 109 00:07:56.550 --> 00:08:00.819 though she has difficult situations and circumstances, it's not okay. We can't 110 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:05.379 validate that behavior based on the trauma that she's been through. Right. We 111 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:11.019 fall into that trap of making abortion somehow this different sin, and yes, 112 00:08:11.259 --> 00:08:15.649 different in ways, but sin still leads to separation from God, no matter 113 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:20.009 what sin it is, and sin is is destructive to other people and also 114 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.930 to those, yeah, who? Yeah, I meant the same. So 115 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:26.689 the discussion isn't is is we want to make it very clear. The discussion 116 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:35.559 about whether abortion, people who have abortions are victims are not. That is 117 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.759 not to ever excuse abortion. Yeah, the point of it is that that 118 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:46.870 analyzing and understanding whether they are victims or not victims helps us to better know 119 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:50.509 how to serve them honestly and how to respond. And that's that's sort of 120 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:52.389 the point, in less, why I think this podcast is important. Right. 121 00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:56.460 You know, I mentioned, as we were talking before the PODCAST, 122 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:00.299 about volunteer years that we've had. Sure, people have come out and they 123 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:03.139 see what we're doing, they see sidewalk counseling or even, I'm sure, 124 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.259 in pregnancy centers to they want to they want to reach these poor innocent victims, 125 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.049 these women who need save him and save them right from from being victims 126 00:09:11.090 --> 00:09:16.929 of abortion. Right, and I get it. It's noble. However, 127 00:09:16.129 --> 00:09:18.690 when we have people come out and they come out for the first time with 128 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.850 this mentality. Not all, but some do come out with this mentalities. 129 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:26.399 Yeah, women are poor, innocent victims and they're exposed to the women that 130 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.840 they thought were victims, who are actually, as I believe was John Wesley 131 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.480 or George Whitfield said in his day, these people are monsters of iniquity. 132 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.159 That's a term that he used, and preaching the Gospel that human beings are 133 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.590 monsters of iniquity. Right, we love our sin, right. And and 134 00:09:41.070 --> 00:09:43.509 you see that an abortion clinic? Yeah, you do. I mean they 135 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.710 come out there thinking these these these poor women who have led such such terrible 136 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.899 lives and are being forced into these terrible choices, and then you know, 137 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:56.700 you're being sworn at and kicked and and given the finger whatever, and you 138 00:09:56.779 --> 00:10:01.899 realize, wow, these are these are something rough, victims, victims, 139 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.700 and you know. So I'll share one story. I share this with a 140 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:07.649 lot of people who have that mentality. These women are just poor, innocent 141 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:11.370 victims of their circumstances and we need to see him as victims. You know, 142 00:10:11.409 --> 00:10:15.250 I had a young lady who came this is for her fifth abortion. 143 00:10:15.289 --> 00:10:18.129 Yeah, okay, and she came and she got out of her car and 144 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.090 I was reaching out to her like we normally do. Hey, man, 145 00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:22.399 we have help available, we have a ultrasound right here. We want to 146 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.960 help you, and she said, I'm going to kill this baby, she 147 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.279 said. If I could spit it out of my mouth right now, I 148 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.600 would. I'm like, okay, this is not a thing now, this 149 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:33.600 is and this is what I'll say. Many of the women, not I 150 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.110 prefaced that, many of the women, I don't say all of them, 151 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:41.149 because we were going to talk about were, but many of the women that 152 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:45.990 we encounter are not victims. They are victimizers and they full well know that 153 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:48.789 their baby is alive. They've seen ultra sounds because they've some of them had 154 00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:54.019 previous abortions or they've had previous children and they know that they have a living 155 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.019 baby. Some of them are feeling their baby movings out of their women and 156 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:01.700 they could care less. That's right, they could care less. Well or 157 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:03.370 not it's a life. They could care less whether or not God values that 158 00:11:03.529 --> 00:11:07.169 life. We see him with their middle fingers up all the time. I'm 159 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:09.889 sure people in pregnancy centers, I know my wife is, shared stories. 160 00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:13.850 She works and in a couple of pregnancy centers and she shared stories of women 161 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:16.809 who come in there and they are they are dead set, yeah, for 162 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.200 lack of a better term, on having an abortion and they could care less 163 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.600 if they're harming another person. That's right. That is not a victim, 164 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.960 right, that is a victimizer. Right, right. And so so maybe 165 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.799 leaping into you know, e make, I think, a really important point. 166 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:33.830 I think anyone who's been on the front lines of an abortion center would 167 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.309 probably agree, agree with this at there are some who are like that, 168 00:11:37.429 --> 00:11:46.429 who are just hardened, angry, defiant, often times that just with no 169 00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:50.940 respect for God. Yeah, and in fact mocking and mocking God. Yeah, 170 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.940 that that is definitely a group. But but there are other groups that 171 00:11:56.179 --> 00:12:00.019 that you see as well, other ways that you could characterize some of the 172 00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:03.970 women and and I would think the bulk of them actually probably fall into what 173 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:07.090 we have just described, most of them. When seeing the majority, it 174 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:11.330 does seem victimizer than the victim. Yeah, it does. But but I 175 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:16.120 was thinking about this as we were discussing this podcast and I think that there 176 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.720 are two other groups that I that I do see out there, and one 177 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:24.039 of them I would truly classify as victims. Yeah, they I think they're 178 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:31.190 rare, but but they are out there and you know, I I'll give 179 00:12:31.190 --> 00:12:35.909 you some examples. We had a young teenager, I'll just call her m 180 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:41.710 these are true stories. And she came. She was sixteen, Fifteen or 181 00:12:41.789 --> 00:12:46.740 sixteen when she came. She's been brought by her boyfriend, but her grand 182 00:12:48.740 --> 00:12:52.820 mother was was coursing, forcing, telling her she she had to have this 183 00:12:52.940 --> 00:13:01.090 abortion. And so the team came with with the the boyfriend, but it 184 00:13:01.169 --> 00:13:05.049 also was very coercive, like very he was. He was forcing her as 185 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:07.850 much as the GRANDMAM. I think he was helping to pay for it. 186 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:13.320 And and but the teen had already plotted. She really did not want an 187 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.600 abortion. She knew it was wrong. She wanted the baby. Yeah, 188 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.960 and she had already plotted out how she was going to escape. And so 189 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950 she came aboard the RV. We we shared our resources and actually ended up 190 00:13:28.950 --> 00:13:33.429 driving her home. And because she didn't want to be anywhere near the the 191 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:41.230 boyfriend who was pounding on the RV door and Rednin us and and the next 192 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:46.299 day the grandmother actually tricked her into her car, told her they were going 193 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:54.740 to pediatric Doctor Appointment and withheld medication that this girl needed for diabetes, I 194 00:13:54.820 --> 00:13:58.250 think it was, and drove her to the abortion center. And this this 195 00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:03.690 girl figured it out as she was part way there. And and when the 196 00:14:03.809 --> 00:14:09.370 car paused I think it was slowing down for a stoplight. She jumped out 197 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:13.480 of the car, rolled down a hill ran as fast as she could to 198 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.720 a warehouse where she called me. Yeah, and I got involved immediately. 199 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:22.519 The police got involved in ultimately this mom it was a wild story, but 200 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:28.590 ultimately cities for life and and a wonderful, safe family helped this young lady 201 00:14:28.590 --> 00:14:33.070 and she had the baby and the babies alive and well. But in the 202 00:14:33.389 --> 00:14:37.590 Lord sort of turn the heart of the grandmother to Right Ivan. Yeah, 203 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.259 and I think there were issues with the grandmother, mental issues as well, 204 00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:45.460 but she did end up embracing the child in the team ultimately, and I 205 00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:48.299 don't know what happened to the father of the child. I didn't follow the 206 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:52.210 story that far. But but I would no doubt in my mind that was 207 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:56.289 a victim. Yeah, that was a victim. And if we hadn't been 208 00:14:56.409 --> 00:15:01.330 there and this girl had not been so resourceful, and how many teenagers would 209 00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:03.490 do that and would dare, would have the courage to do that? You 210 00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:07.600 know, I have no doubt that that that team would have been forced into 211 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.600 an abortion and that that to me, is a victim. Yeah, there's 212 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:18.519 and there's I actually have lots of stories of that sort of person. But 213 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.950 I'll move on to what I think would be the second class or classification. 214 00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:26.590 lost. So so let's talk about that. Because, okay, within this 215 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:31.549 classification, you know, whatever classification or sort of the way we're viewing it's 216 00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:33.629 not like there's some you know, right, we're making it up at clinicalize 217 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.019 exactly, but it's just what we observes. The victimize, right, and 218 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:41.419 then you have with that you have the the person that's coerced. Right, 219 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:46.100 I have what are we category? What's our category for that? They are 220 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.980 victims. They are two victims, you know, the sexual I didn't mention 221 00:15:50.129 --> 00:15:52.769 that, and that that I think they are victims, the victims of the 222 00:15:52.889 --> 00:15:58.090 sex trafficking, trafficking that that sex trafficking is huge in our area and it's 223 00:15:58.169 --> 00:16:02.690 huge, I think, in most cities that those are oftentimes truly victims. 224 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:07.240 They cannot escape and the the person, the PAMP, whoever whatever he's called, 225 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.759 that is in charge of those girls is very skilled at keeping them terrified 226 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.830 and under his control and they just even if the police get them alone, 227 00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:22.590 sometimes they will not speak up against what they're going through. A lot of 228 00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:26.909 fear for their life or for their family, these lives. Yeah, yeah, 229 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:29.309 it's then. That's the point. That's what I want to touch on. 230 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:32.269 Also want to mention another that I've encountered, I'm sure you have to, 231 00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:36.940 at the abortion clinics, which is people who are foreign in which is 232 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.620 some of these the sex trafficking cases. You know, these are foreign women 233 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:42.740 who, you know, have been traffic to the United States and all of 234 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.740 that, and it's like there's there's, you know, language barrier, culture 235 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:51.210 barrier, there's this you're out of your element and there's just this ability for 236 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:55.570 these these pumps to manipulate and all of that that. Yeah, but also 237 00:16:55.649 --> 00:16:59.409 I counter women at the abortion clinic, mostly Hispanic, who come to the 238 00:16:59.450 --> 00:17:03.799 abortion clinic who are told by the Health Department or told by their ob doctor 239 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:08.319 that their baby was already dead, they're having a miscarriage and they need to 240 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.920 go to this place and they don't know where they're going. They you need 241 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.400 to go to this place and take care of the problem. This place, 242 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.269 of course, is the abortion clinic. These OBIE doctors and these health department 243 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:22.589 people are full have full knowledge of where they're sending them. Sure these women 244 00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:26.150 genuinely don't know they're going to an abortion clinic and some of them, I 245 00:17:26.390 --> 00:17:32.019 know, have gone through with an abortion because they believe the person in the 246 00:17:32.019 --> 00:17:36.180 lab coat. They believe the person that seems to have have the authority with 247 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:38.420 and they sent us here. And also, after all, I've got a 248 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.220 you know, respect this person because they have a lab coat, they have 249 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:45.250 a tied or whatever, and what they're telling me is right. You know, 250 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:47.730 I have a problem at this place is going to handle it for me. 251 00:17:47.970 --> 00:17:49.769 Yeah, and and you know, we've had women who have been sent 252 00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:55.049 to the abortion clinic who are told they're miscarrying and, by God's crazy we're 253 00:17:55.049 --> 00:17:56.730 able to get them on more the mobile unit and find out there baby still 254 00:17:56.769 --> 00:18:00.400 alive and actually not miscarrying. Right, and they choose live. Right, 255 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.720 you know, and I want to peep back us a victim of just blatant 256 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.880 lie, absolutely, and of people that that that they should be able to 257 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:14.109 trust. And there was a woman who came stopped by with with her living 258 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:17.950 child, her whole family, in fact, not long ago she pulled over 259 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:23.029 and said that she had been told by the health department that that she had 260 00:18:23.470 --> 00:18:27.819 to abort her baby or they would remove her other children from the home. 261 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:33.059 Yeah, I mean that's a victim. That's someone who is being victimized by 262 00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:41.019 government agency. That is disgusting and wrong. And and so, you know, 263 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:44.849 thankfully, she she was showing US her baby. She had chosen life, 264 00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:47.569 right. She yes, she did. She did, she did. 265 00:18:47.849 --> 00:18:52.170 She went to the abortion center and actually the reason she didn't fall for it 266 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.680 is she got we got a hold of her. She stopped and talked to 267 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.400 us and we said, they can't do that, do not worry and we 268 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.279 will help you fight that. And so I I wasn't here at the at 269 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.640 that time. I think it was eight years ago, but it was cities 270 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.269 for life. Yeah, that that helped her and that helped her overcome that 271 00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:17.029 blatant lie. Yeah, that would you know? They I think that there 272 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:22.269 is this this perception among many that, okay, these are poor people, 273 00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:26.500 they can afford to have these children. They're going to be on social services. 274 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:30.740 It'd be better off for everyone. Yeah, if they just to puchase. 275 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.380 There's child total. Yeah. Yeah, it's Godless, God choice that 276 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.940 you have the choice to say what's right, what's beneficial to her and her 277 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:41.890 friendly as far as that goes. Right. So, yeah, I mean 278 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.609 that's that to me. Would be in the category of victims, which is, 279 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:48.210 I think, one of the reasons why that when we're at an abortion 280 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:49.849 clinic, and will course continue on with with some of this other but we're 281 00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:52.559 at an abortion clinic, we do need to be aware of that. Even 282 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.920 though it's not the majority and and there may be days where we're there and 283 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.640 they're none of the women that fit in one of these categories. Right, 284 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.880 we still need to be sensitive to these situations and the way that we address 285 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.829 people is sort of like, you know, we sort of believe the best 286 00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:10.829 until we're given a reason to put to believe otherwise. So if I see 287 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.309 a woman come into middle fingers up and she's cousin, I'm not going to 288 00:20:14.589 --> 00:20:15.910 approach her and talk to her. The same way if I see a woman 289 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:18.430 go in her heads down and tears and right, yeah, you know, 290 00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:26.259 typically with that sort of blazing, you know, brazen just anger and bitterness, 291 00:20:26.299 --> 00:20:27.660 I'll just may be stinging with a little bit of truth. You know, 292 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:32.579 your baby is precious inside of God. Don't kill your baby and pretty 293 00:20:32.619 --> 00:20:36.130 much just let the Lord deal with them. But when you see him and 294 00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:38.410 again, we have to being be considering. There can be some of these 295 00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:42.690 young ladies who are being cours being forced sex trafficking victims, that when they 296 00:20:42.730 --> 00:20:48.809 get out of their vehicle and they're going into the abortion clinic, making ourselves 297 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.039 a way of escape that they can see. You know, the Bible says 298 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.839 and every temptation, God is faithfuling gives us a way of escape. That's 299 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.799 how well counselors, as prolife ministers and whatever realm we're in, we need 300 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.509 to be seen as a way of escape, right, and we would literally 301 00:21:04.670 --> 00:21:08.029 call out if you are being coerced, all you need to do is yell 302 00:21:08.150 --> 00:21:11.549 help, come to us. We would call a police yeah, and so 303 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:17.109 you do need to make judgments. Sometimes, there's that word again, judge. 304 00:21:17.190 --> 00:21:21.299 We have to judge, make judgments about is this person being coerced? 305 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:26.420 There are certainly signs that that we can look for an either in sec trafficking 306 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:33.049 or in just a mother coercing her team. That's illegal and because that, 307 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:34.569 you know, if you make that judgment, then you're going to call out 308 00:21:34.650 --> 00:21:41.849 differently. Yeah, to to to help them in whatever situation that they're in, 309 00:21:41.690 --> 00:21:45.170 to let them know that we are the way out, we are help. 310 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:49.200 They can call on us and we will help them. So should we 311 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.039 move on to what we think might be the the you know, kind of 312 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.440 our again, we're just making this up, but I think it is based 313 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.359 on certainly based on experience, experience, it's based on what we've said, 314 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.789 at least on what I've seen out there. There are those, like we 315 00:22:03.829 --> 00:22:07.109 said, the true victims, and then a second category, though, are 316 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:11.869 those who, I think you called it, victim of their circumstances, and 317 00:22:11.990 --> 00:22:18.099 I think that that's a good way of labeling it. I called it they're 318 00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.500 in crisis and they've lost their mind. Yeah, they just really these are 319 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:27.259 typically people who who would make a choice, maybe for God, certainly for 320 00:22:27.460 --> 00:22:33.130 a stronger moral standard, and that they're the ones that will say I never 321 00:22:33.450 --> 00:22:38.009 thought I would have an abortion. That's sometimes while here. That, yeah, 322 00:22:38.089 --> 00:22:41.569 in the conversation with them, and some of them you hear say, 323 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:45.359 I don't believe, I don't believe in Abor, even abortion, but you 324 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:52.880 know exactly, and to me those are that's actually the the second largest group. 325 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.680 I think that we see the true victims. I think are the smallest. 326 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:02.990 But then there's these people in just enormous conflict and they're in the value 327 00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:06.950 of decision. They're, you know, they're not decided. Yeah, whether 328 00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:08.470 or not. Listen, there are women, you know, we have pretty 329 00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.859 choice people implying that when someone makes it to an abortion clinic their mind is 330 00:23:11.859 --> 00:23:15.700 already made up. This is Ziculous, not true. There women have. 331 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.619 Mine is not made up, even after they had the abortion act. You 332 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.339 know, women that we encounter that have taken the abortion pill, they've already 333 00:23:22.339 --> 00:23:26.500 taken the medication, their mind still in made up, when we've thankfully seen 334 00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:29.809 some that have reversed that. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so 335 00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:37.089 they they're because the crisis is so overwhelming, they are in such terrible circumstances 336 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.279 and so much fear has entered their heart. Give us such scripture again. 337 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.960 The what the spirit of fear? Yeah, so, God is not given 338 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.640 us a spirit of fear, but if power, love and a sound month, 339 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.720 least in Second Timothy came right, right, right, yeah, yeah, 340 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.119 but God has not given us a spirit of fear, but power love 341 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.230 in a sound mind. Right. And when we're under a spirit of fear, 342 00:23:56.349 --> 00:24:00.109 power love and a sound mind go out the door. We're not thinking 343 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:04.029 soundly. Yeah, fear controls us. Fear has US think it irrationally. 344 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:08.269 It's kind of like a mouse called in a mouse trap. Yeah, and 345 00:24:08.589 --> 00:24:11.099 they want to get free. And you know that mouses legs got in the 346 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.059 mouse trap. Yeah, it do ends up knowing it's leg often and rather 347 00:24:15.099 --> 00:24:17.980 than din from the being in the mouse trap, it dies from bleeding from 348 00:24:18.019 --> 00:24:19.299 not on its own way call. Yeah, yeah, kind of like that. 349 00:24:19.539 --> 00:24:22.940 Yeah, a cornered animal, almost a cornered animal, like all those 350 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:27.970 fearful things are surrounding them and bearing down on them and they're huddling in the 351 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:33.490 corner. Is Abortion, because that is societies go to answer when you've got 352 00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.450 a struggle. Just just get rid of it instead of is exactly so. 353 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:44.519 So you know some of the stories of women that I that I feel hit 354 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.920 that category. We had a young lady who I'll call her em again, 355 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:56.269 and she she just she was here all alone. Her family was in a 356 00:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.670 whole nother country across the world. She did have a boyfriend, the father 357 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:03.150 the baby, with her, but really no one else, no other support. 358 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:08.259 She was working in her dream and desire was go to school, she 359 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:15.900 was working a lot of hours and and she just she didn't see how she 360 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:21.890 could possibly have a baby now her circumstances, other than being kind of isolated 361 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:26.089 we're not all that terrible. But but she was someone who I think did 362 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:32.369 have a moral anchor and knew abortion was wrong. She said she was actually 363 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:36.599 well, she worked with children as her livelihood, she loved children, but 364 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:42.160 she she took the pill. She went in there crying, knowing the whole 365 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:47.480 time it was wrong. And she took the pill and immediately, she said, 366 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:51.549 as soon as it went down her throat, she regretted it that moment. 367 00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:57.269 Yeah, and and and ended up calling the abortion pill reversal hotline and 368 00:25:57.309 --> 00:26:03.980 ultimately successfully reversing reversing the abortion pill. Came to the Lord. She and 369 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.819 her boyfriend married right away because they believed. So they were very soft for 370 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:11.019 the Lord and they said, yeah, let's do it. When when I 371 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.500 shared the Gospel, yeah, let's do this right now, committed. So 372 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.569 they jointly committed their life to the Lord. They got married within a week 373 00:26:18.609 --> 00:26:22.569 after that because they were so convinced, convicted that that was the right thing 374 00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:26.569 to do. And they had the child. So this is someone that had 375 00:26:26.650 --> 00:26:32.849 aborted and, praise God, abortion pill reversal was available and we were standing 376 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.680 out there calling that out and and our signs were up and she that baby 377 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.160 was saved. There was another mom and this is, I think, a 378 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.039 very I think you spoke about this a little the she was from very poor 379 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:52.269 language skills, no support. She did have a family that lived here, 380 00:26:52.349 --> 00:26:56.910 but they all lived, like fifteen of them in this tiny little house. 381 00:26:56.029 --> 00:27:02.500 There was no way that another baby could enter this environment. She was a 382 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.099 she had already been told she would lose her job if she got pregnant. 383 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:08.019 I think she might have been paid being in a job that was under the 384 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:11.660 table. Yeah, she may have been here illegally. I'm not positive about 385 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:18.410 that. But just the circumstances were all so terrible. The husband, well, 386 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.009 there wasn't a husband, a boyfriend had left her and was abusive on 387 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:26.410 top of it. So yeah, that's a terrible it's a terror. Her 388 00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:32.680 parents, I believe, were alcoholics and she knew that. So terrible, 389 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.680 terrible circumstances. And yet again she was crying. That's always kind of a 390 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.200 tipoff. You see someone crying, you know there's conflict. Yeah, and 391 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.670 she came aboard the RV, saw her baby, chose life and is one 392 00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:48.789 of actually our most loyal supporters right now, just always sending us pictures of 393 00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:52.789 her baby and overjoyed that she made a choice for life, but she was 394 00:27:52.869 --> 00:27:56.589 someone that would be in that would I consider that second category. The circuit, 395 00:27:56.710 --> 00:28:03.339 the circumstances were so overwhelming, the fear became so pervasive that that she 396 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:10.259 lost sight of who God was and what his commands were, and and that 397 00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:15.009 there was a better choice. Yeah, and thank you telling her child Aments, 398 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:17.490 not just less, sort of like a shameless plug in. I guess 399 00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:21.049 we always mentioned the sidewalks for life site, right. Yeah, yes, 400 00:28:21.329 --> 00:28:25.089 for number for lifecom and I wrote an article on there which I think is 401 00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:27.640 really good, and not because you too, my own horn, but it 402 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.039 talks about just this. It talks about the the that scripture that God has 403 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.160 not given us a spirit of fear, but power, love and a sound 404 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.079 mind. And sort of when a spirit of fear comes, when we're under 405 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.470 this fear, in this we're afraid of what the future might hold, then 406 00:28:42.549 --> 00:28:45.549 power, which is like the ability to do the right thing, and that 407 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:51.789 that situation, it's really speaks a moral ability, the moral fortitude to do 408 00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.750 the right thing. Power that goes out of the door for under a spirit 409 00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:57.740 of fear, spirit of fear love, which is love for God, love 410 00:28:57.859 --> 00:29:02.420 for your neighbor, love for your baby, love for yourself. That goes 411 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:07.339 out the door. And one sense, and then so power, love and 412 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:11.089 a sound mind, sound mindedness, goes out the door again. That sound 413 00:29:11.210 --> 00:29:15.690 thinking, that somehow believing that paying for five hundred for an abortion is going 414 00:29:15.690 --> 00:29:19.210 to make my finances better. Right. And it's like it's not sound to 415 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:22.970 think that way. It's not sound thinking. And and you know how will 416 00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:26.119 we combat that? We combat that with faith. We combat that with God's 417 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.200 word, with truth. We combat that with the ultrasound to show them that 418 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:36.160 baby is a valuable human being and painting a vision, painting a vision of 419 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.269 what that child could be. What it what is their their ultimate goal? 420 00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:47.029 I I often will say what do you picture as the the perfect life for 421 00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.789 you? What do you want? At almost almost to a woman, they 422 00:29:49.910 --> 00:29:53.579 say a family. Yeah, a mom and dad, a baby in a 423 00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:59.940 committed family. And and then we talked about we what does it take to 424 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:07.250 get there? And and I love what Sarah, our baby shower coordinator, 425 00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:11.410 said this morning when she heard heard us talking about this, and she said 426 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.410 she paints the picture of them as an overcomer. Yeah, that we can 427 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:22.559 overcome our circumstances. And and people like to think of themselves as as being 428 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.880 more than they thought that they could be, and I think it is valuable 429 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.039 for us to see they can exactly. And what is it? That comes 430 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.789 directly against society's mentality that we're all victims. You, if you let people 431 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:38.910 just be victims, then guess what? They're going to stay victims, they're 432 00:30:38.910 --> 00:30:45.390 going to they're going to be under victimizing behavior and victimizing thoughts and ultimately we 433 00:30:47.829 --> 00:30:52.259 will say every human being is a victim in some way. We're victim of 434 00:30:52.299 --> 00:30:56.180 our own stupidity and were become of our own sin. We're victim of the 435 00:30:56.259 --> 00:31:00.859 lies of the devil, but it doesn't make us just sort of say, 436 00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:06.730 like vocational victims. Right, it's sort of our vocation just to be victims. 437 00:31:06.890 --> 00:31:10.410 Right. Society, though, has balked this lie and their whole communities 438 00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:12.289 of people, you know, you maybe even whole nations that have bought this 439 00:31:12.410 --> 00:31:15.250 lot, that we're just victims and there's just no way we can get out 440 00:31:15.250 --> 00:31:19.880 from under this. But the Bible tells us that we are victors through him. 441 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.720 So we're not victims. If we're in Christ, we are victors. 442 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.880 That's why it's important that we mean, when we encounter people who think that 443 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.319 they're victims, they've been told that they're victims and in one since, yes, 444 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.750 they are victims of lies and all this other stuff, that we bring 445 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.789 the victorious gospel of Jesus, Right, so that through him, because he's 446 00:31:37.829 --> 00:31:41.190 the victor over sin. If we're victims, then we're victims of sin by 447 00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:45.509 our own will. Then, if our wheel is given to the Lord, 448 00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:49.380 he's the victor and we get the victory that he won. Right. That 449 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.859 was important for us to bring the Gospel exactly. I like this. Maybe 450 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.539 as the title Victor or victim, maybe that's what we need to start calling. 451 00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:00.579 Yeah, that's good, that is really good. But talking about them 452 00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:04.130 as overcomers and one of the things that we can do, and I think 453 00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:07.690 it's good that we're sharing these stories where we see these women who were in 454 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:10.809 pretty difficult situation. Yeah, and even m the young lady who talked about, 455 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:15.369 who genuinely was, I think, the team better category. Right, 456 00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:19.000 she was a visue, that right. Yeah, and yet she's still overcame. 457 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.880 She did, and she did and Shit, and we helped her. 458 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.720 So that's not to say that if you know, if you have a if 459 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.640 you're a victim, that there is in help or that, or if you're 460 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.390 not a victim, that there is a help. I mean, we're going 461 00:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.910 to help. We're going to help, but we're not going to you know, 462 00:32:34.029 --> 00:32:37.750 Christ will accept US wherever we are, but he doesn't leave us where 463 00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:40.670 we are. He expects us to grow more like him each day. We 464 00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:45.140 are to change we are. There is an upward call and I think with 465 00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:50.619 em that teenager. She returned to school. She ended up in a prey 466 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:53.539 dancy resource center where until she had her baby, she returned to school. 467 00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:57.259 Eternity home. I'm a turn yeah, I'm sorry, I'm eternity home. 468 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.930 And and she did finish school, she did graduate, she did get a 469 00:33:02.049 --> 00:33:07.130 job, she did restore her family. She was, you know, reunited 470 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:12.690 with with the family that had it really victimized her. And you know, 471 00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:16.240 and she's doing okay and she show Sir Right. It isn't recover victor. 472 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.119 And that's what happened with the other m, the M that was in that 473 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:23.759 second, second category that did the pill reversal. You know, she got 474 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.190 married, she had the baby, I think she's going back to school. 475 00:33:29.430 --> 00:33:32.589 He's got a great job, he got a job and and and they're they're 476 00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:37.109 they're doing really well. But, and I want to think talk about that, 477 00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:42.819 the ones that consider themselves victims but they're not, and how that mentality 478 00:33:43.059 --> 00:33:49.779 can really affect whether they make changes. Our ministry is not just to be 479 00:33:50.019 --> 00:33:53.819 welfare and and to just keep giving handouts to someone, because that doesn't help 480 00:33:53.819 --> 00:33:58.569 anyone. That enables, I think, yeah, that to remain in in 481 00:33:58.930 --> 00:34:02.849 whatever terrible circumstances you are. But we do want to help in a way, 482 00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.010 not only through tangible means, but through the Gospel, so that there 483 00:34:07.210 --> 00:34:10.000 will truly be a change of hard change of mind. Yeah, and they 484 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:15.119 will really try to to change their lifestyle. But I remember a family that 485 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.519 that we helped maybe more than any other family. You know, it really 486 00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:23.550 maybe thousands of dollars worth of worth of assistants, and at one point in 487 00:34:23.789 --> 00:34:27.829 in when she had hit on hard times again, when she told me, 488 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:32.349 no one is helping me, of course I'm in this situation and I just, 489 00:34:34.110 --> 00:34:37.579 you know, I ride away, said that just is not true and 490 00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:45.500 I started to list all the help and and reminded her that that not only 491 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:47.900 had she been helped, but there comes a point at which you just truly 492 00:34:47.980 --> 00:34:52.460 have to make a decision. I'm going to live for the Lord, I'm 493 00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.449 going to do the next right thing and I'm going to keep doing the next 494 00:34:54.449 --> 00:35:00.250 right thing. And so kind of pointing your back to you can be a 495 00:35:00.369 --> 00:35:04.329 victor, but it's in the Lord. Yeah, you're not going to find 496 00:35:04.369 --> 00:35:06.690 it out outside of the time. So it's like, you know, you 497 00:35:06.730 --> 00:35:08.639 can, you can stay under victimhood, if you want to write. Exact 498 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.039 fact is, God is calling you up, he's calling you to be a 499 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.719 victor. That's God's people. That's the message that we're bringing. You can 500 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.679 be a victor and trusting in Jesus. Yeah, he's ultimately the victor. 501 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.309 Over over, every yell. Yeah, they were given to one of the 502 00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:28.670 things we love calling out to the men. That that plays right into this. 503 00:35:29.349 --> 00:35:31.710 You could be a hero today. You could be a hero today. 504 00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:37.460 God gave you your muscles, your superior strength, to protect and help and 505 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:44.019 uphold vulnerable women and children. Yeah, and and so giving them that, 506 00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.260 that that image, that vision of this is who God designed you to be. 507 00:35:47.380 --> 00:35:51.530 He designed all of us to be over comrage, to overcomes in through 508 00:35:51.570 --> 00:35:55.650 the blood of Jesus and then through faith and to become more like like our 509 00:35:55.769 --> 00:36:00.090 Lord. Yeah, I told you when we started I wanted to mention or 510 00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:02.289 want to tell you a little bit about your story, because you know, 511 00:36:02.409 --> 00:36:07.199 it's not that that you certainly we have experiences with other people, but you 512 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.199 have a personal experience, I do, and you share that in your testimony 513 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.960 in the first I'm it was like what the second podcast that we did, 514 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.639 I believe, and and how you had had an abortion. Yeah, and 515 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.070 because you know, again, there's this mentality that abortion minded women, post 516 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:23.429 abortive women, are just victims, as I'll just ask you very pointedly. 517 00:36:23.469 --> 00:36:27.590 Yeah, do you think you were a victim when you had your abortion? 518 00:36:27.630 --> 00:36:30.590 Yeah, you feel like you're a victim. And I fall into the third 519 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:36.380 category, which is so it plays into that hardhearted in rebellion from God. 520 00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:39.260 Honestly, could care less, and I hate to say that now it's a 521 00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:44.500 completely different story. I still weep over my abortion, but back then I 522 00:36:44.539 --> 00:36:51.969 didn't know the Lord. I certainly bought into the lies of society, the 523 00:36:52.010 --> 00:36:58.769 law. It was legal. Yeah, and and really just I really just 524 00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:04.239 wanted to not feel sick anymore. I had big plans, you know, 525 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.599 big aspirations, and a baby definitely didn't fit into those. Yeah, and 526 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:13.679 and so it was getting rid of an annoyance. It was. It was 527 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.469 not. I honest, I'm pretty sure I never thought of it as a 528 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:22.989 baby. Yeah, so I was in full rebellion from God. Yeah, 529 00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:29.829 I did not recognize, or desire to recognize at all the humanity of this 530 00:37:29.989 --> 00:37:36.019 child or that I had any obligation to care for this baby. None. 531 00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:40.579 Yeah, it was. It was as alien to my mind as as anything 532 00:37:40.820 --> 00:37:45.170 could be. Yeah, and so I guess I you know, I guess 533 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:50.969 I can understand where those women who come to the abortion center, who present 534 00:37:51.289 --> 00:37:53.929 with that same picture, I understand where they're coming from. That was me, 535 00:37:54.489 --> 00:37:59.159 and it was through. It wasn't until I came to the Lord that 536 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:04.719 I truly understood what I had done and began to make a hundred eighty degree 537 00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.920 turn around in my feelings regarding abortion. Yeah, and who we're talking? 538 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.519 We're saying that, you know, the majority of women that we encounter, 539 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.989 HMM, are not victims but victimizers. Right, we're not just pointing the 540 00:38:16.030 --> 00:38:19.750 finger. At least you're not just pointing the finger and say, and those 541 00:38:19.789 --> 00:38:22.190 women are victimizers. Right, but you're saying that's how I was, but 542 00:38:22.269 --> 00:38:24.909 I was yeah, how, that's it. I was myself. Yeah, 543 00:38:25.230 --> 00:38:30.820 and and no one is saying, just so there's no false perception that you 544 00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:34.460 know, somehow those women that are victimizers and just, you know, are 545 00:38:34.539 --> 00:38:38.619 brazen in their attitude toward abortion, that somehow they're unhuman, HMM, that 546 00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:44.250 they're should be written off and shouldn't be reached. They should absolutely be reached. 547 00:38:44.329 --> 00:38:46.050 Right, we're there to reach them, because I was reached. Yeah, 548 00:38:46.050 --> 00:38:50.210 I was reached, not in time for the baby, but in time 549 00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:57.840 for my eternal safety and salvation and and you know my walk now. So 550 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.119 we know that that people can change through yes, because we, you know, 551 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:06.159 we as believers, we don't have the right to put ourselves as better 552 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.230 than so when we're saying that women are not always victims of abortions, matter 553 00:39:09.230 --> 00:39:13.230 of fact, for the most part they're not ms of abortion. Babies are 554 00:39:13.230 --> 00:39:16.070 the victim, we're not writing them off and we're not saying, you know, 555 00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:20.750 somehow they're the worst people in the face of the planet. But we're 556 00:39:20.909 --> 00:39:23.380 what we're doing is we're looking at the biblical reality, and the Biblical reality 557 00:39:23.539 --> 00:39:28.139 is that when we give ourselves to sin, we can blame sin. If 558 00:39:28.179 --> 00:39:30.619 we want, we can blame the devil. The den will maybe do it. 559 00:39:30.699 --> 00:39:32.460 We can blame God. You look at our first parents, Adam and 560 00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:37.739 Eve, Yep, and look when they fell into sin, when Adam gave 561 00:39:37.780 --> 00:39:42.329 himself to sin, direct disobedience to God's command. WHO's the first person he 562 00:39:42.449 --> 00:39:45.570 blamed? Right, God? Yeah, I mean he says it was the 563 00:39:45.690 --> 00:39:49.969 woman that you gave me. The accusation is toward the woman, but the 564 00:39:49.969 --> 00:39:52.329 first person he's blaming as God. Hey, if you wouldn't gave me this, 565 00:39:52.489 --> 00:39:54.719 this woman, then after all, I wouldn't have wouldn't have been tempted 566 00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:58.639 to Sind. She's the one that gave me the fruit, and so I'm 567 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.159 a victim God, and you're the victimizer. Yeah, blaming God as sort 568 00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:06.239 of like God's making us this victim. And the women say that. The 569 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.630 women say that as well. And at abortion center, Hey, the God 570 00:40:08.710 --> 00:40:12.550 gave me this baby, he said. God created this baby. It's his 571 00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.829 fault. Let him deal with it. Yeah, which is which is ridiculous. 572 00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:17.349 Yeah, and you know, sort of fits. Even when this story 573 00:40:17.429 --> 00:40:22.900 with with Kane and Abel. You know, God warns Cane. You know, 574 00:40:22.940 --> 00:40:24.780 your countenances fallow. Why is your countenance fallen. If you do well, 575 00:40:24.940 --> 00:40:28.619 will you not be received? So apparently, cane, you didn't do 576 00:40:28.699 --> 00:40:30.699 so well. And you know, can could blame God and say God, 577 00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:35.929 you're just you're causing trauma in my life. Since I have trauma, I 578 00:40:36.090 --> 00:40:38.889 need to act out, I need to do something with this trauma and I'm 579 00:40:39.010 --> 00:40:43.449 justified in whatever I do. And Know God saying if you do well, 580 00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.809 then you'll be received. If you don't do well, then sin crouches at 581 00:40:46.849 --> 00:40:51.760 the door. It's desire is to have you to God's warning him and we 582 00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:54.639 see a warning in the scripture about sin and the progression of sin and when 583 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.800 people give themselves to sin, the God's not to be blamed. You Know 584 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:02.519 James, the first chapter, James says that let no one say when he 585 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:06.949 is tempted, he is tempted by God. God did not tempt Kane in 586 00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:09.590 this even though he didn't receive his sacrifice. There was a reason he didn't 587 00:41:09.590 --> 00:41:15.070 receive his sacrifice. Then would say when he's tempted, he's tempted by the 588 00:41:15.150 --> 00:41:17.070 Lord, for God tempts no one with evil. nors he himself tempted. 589 00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:21.019 It's just not in God's nature to temp people the sin, right, and 590 00:41:21.139 --> 00:41:22.659 it says, but each one is tempted, when he's drawn away by his 591 00:41:22.699 --> 00:41:25.900 own lust. When Lust is conceived, he gives birth to Sin and when 592 00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:30.780 sin is fully grown, it brings forth death. That's exactly what happened in 593 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:36.369 Cane's situation. It brought forced death to his to his his brother Abel, 594 00:41:36.650 --> 00:41:39.730 righteous able. Yeah, and it brought, of course, devastation in Kane's 595 00:41:39.769 --> 00:41:44.409 life as well. So he was victimized by his own his own sin and 596 00:41:44.610 --> 00:41:47.599 that sense. And he wonders about the Earth. You know, it says 597 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.440 if I go somewhere, he pleads with God and God had mercy on this 598 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.639 gap. He did, had mercy on came and put his seal on Kane. 599 00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.280 And if anyone hurts you, then they'll have to deal with me. 600 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.400 I'm paraphrasing right. That's amazing. It is as of course God, in 601 00:42:00.429 --> 00:42:04.110 His mercy, he did that in your life, right he yeah, he 602 00:42:04.469 --> 00:42:08.429 pursued you. You ultimately surrendered your life to him and God took that as 603 00:42:08.510 --> 00:42:13.829 you one time, we're a victimizer. Now you're helping women to see that 604 00:42:13.909 --> 00:42:16.179 their baby is actually going to be the victim of abortion and helping them to 605 00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:21.139 choose life, right. So, yeah, that's cool, the way the 606 00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:24.619 Lord in his in his awesome wisdom works. Yeah, and can even take 607 00:42:24.699 --> 00:42:28.659 the hardest of hearts, yeah, and turn them around. You have seen 608 00:42:28.699 --> 00:42:31.170 women go in, I know you've seen it to too, middle fingers blazing, 609 00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:35.130 cussing us. They go in like that, they have their abortion, 610 00:42:35.210 --> 00:42:37.969 they come out and they're they're just devastated, their hearts are broken, right, 611 00:42:38.250 --> 00:42:42.570 and that's an opportunity for the Gospel. It is, it is. 612 00:42:42.730 --> 00:42:45.280 Yeah. You know, as you were talking about scripture, I I want 613 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.239 to share some of the stuff that this morning I was I was doing a 614 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.480 Bible study just on just where it happened end up for that day. It 615 00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:58.559 was on the book of Jeremiah and Chapter Seven and eight, and I thought 616 00:42:58.590 --> 00:43:05.750 it was a really it was like describing so so well what I would consider 617 00:43:06.429 --> 00:43:10.150 the victimizer. Yeah, person out there at the abortion center. So I 618 00:43:10.309 --> 00:43:15.219 just read like a few pieces from those, from those verses. It's it's 619 00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:21.300 in Jeremiah seven, starting in verse five and all the Way Jeremiah ending at 620 00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:23.980 verse twelve. But I'm only going to pick out a few. God is 621 00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:27.610 talking now. He says, if you do not oppress the alien, the 622 00:43:27.650 --> 00:43:30.449 orphan or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, 623 00:43:31.369 --> 00:43:35.449 then I will let you dwell in this place later, he says. Well, 624 00:43:35.489 --> 00:43:39.210 you steal, murder and commit adultery and square falsely and offer sacrifices. 625 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.719 You say, we are delivered so that you may do all these abominations. 626 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.760 We hear all the time people saying God will forgive you, so I'm going 627 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.280 to go in there and do this abomination, but I will be delivered. 628 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:59.030 Yeah, this is what I commanded them, saying, obey my voice and 629 00:43:59.110 --> 00:44:01.030 I will be your God and you will be my people and you will walk 630 00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.190 in the way in which I command you, that it may be well with 631 00:44:04.309 --> 00:44:06.869 you. So God is painting the Vision. Hey, you can do this, 632 00:44:07.110 --> 00:44:09.659 you can, and it will be well. But instead, what they 633 00:44:09.699 --> 00:44:14.539 have done that which is evil in my sight, and they have built the 634 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:16.860 high places, which is the Valley of the son of Hennam, to burn 635 00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:21.820 their sons and daughters in the fire, which I did not command and it 636 00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:27.809 did not come into my mind. Yeah, and death will be chosen rather 637 00:44:27.969 --> 00:44:32.170 than life by all the remnant, the remains of this evil family. They 638 00:44:32.250 --> 00:44:36.929 refuse to return. They have spoken. What is not right. No, 639 00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:40.400 man repented of his wickedness, saying what have I done? I remember my 640 00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:45.760 our abortion reversal. Ladies, she did repent. Yeah, and say immediately, 641 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.000 what have I done? And Yeah, she's that's why I'm saying I 642 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:52.789 think she's kind of in a different category than then these really hardhearted people who 643 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.030 don't repent. They don't say what have I done? They justify it. 644 00:44:57.230 --> 00:45:00.670 You'll hear them say, I ant double down on it. They blame God 645 00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:04.989 or blame circumstances or right or yeah, disregard that what they did was even 646 00:45:04.989 --> 00:45:08.179 wrong. Yeah, and then the people saying peace, peace, but there 647 00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:14.300 is no peace where they ashamed because of the abomination they had done. They 648 00:45:14.420 --> 00:45:19.260 certainly were not ashamed. So those are, you know, I think, 649 00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:24.889 pretty eloquent descriptions of of what we see. And then, in contrast, 650 00:45:25.610 --> 00:45:30.250 think about, I think we've talked about it before, the Hebrew with midwives 651 00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:35.570 who were told by the King of Egypt to to kill the the Hebrews sons. 652 00:45:35.610 --> 00:45:40.519 Yeah, and they were to put them to death. And the but 653 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:45.639 the the scripture says, but the midwives feared God and did not do as 654 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:47.639 the king of Egypt commanded them. But that the boys live. So God 655 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.949 was good to the midwives. The people multiplied and became very mighty because the 656 00:45:52.070 --> 00:45:57.269 midwives feared God. He established households for them. Yeah, so you can 657 00:45:57.429 --> 00:46:00.989 choose. Right, God has given us the ability to choose to do what 658 00:46:00.110 --> 00:46:04.659 he has told us to do. But there's a group that clearly is not 659 00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:09.579 going to do that. And and so that's that's probably the hardest group of 660 00:46:09.820 --> 00:46:14.139 people that we eat. And men in the abortions are mostly the people that 661 00:46:14.340 --> 00:46:16.820 just walk in there and it's like, you know they're going to do what 662 00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:21.050 they're going to do. And you know, we should weep over those people. 663 00:46:21.050 --> 00:46:22.449 Yeah, I should. I just be, you know, forget them. 664 00:46:22.610 --> 00:46:25.690 And Yeah, and you know they're too hard and to even be reached. 665 00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:30.289 I should weep over that. Yeah, and and not forget. I 666 00:46:30.329 --> 00:46:32.559 mean you personally say and I can personally say. You know, I shared 667 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.599 my testimony in the first per a couple of podcasts that we did, and 668 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.559 part of my testimony is at that point in my life, if I could 669 00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:44.119 have taken my girlfriend to have an abortion and when she when I found out 670 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.710 she's pregnant, I would have, because I was a selfish little punk living 671 00:46:46.750 --> 00:46:52.389 for myself. Yeah, and I would have, without any any second thought 672 00:46:52.469 --> 00:46:55.670 to it right, taking her down here. Thankfully, Gott in his in 673 00:46:55.750 --> 00:47:00.469 His mercy, gave her the strength to not even reveal it to me. 674 00:47:00.710 --> 00:47:04.019 The little too late. Yes, it. Yeah, but we know, 675 00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:07.980 like we're no better than those victimizer women. Apart from Christ right, I'm 676 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:12.300 no better. Yeah, but by the grace of God, he's changed us 677 00:47:12.579 --> 00:47:16.489 and he's made us victors rather than victims. He's made us victors rather than 678 00:47:16.489 --> 00:47:22.329 victimizers, and he can do that to anyone who who has a confrontation with 679 00:47:22.369 --> 00:47:25.570 him and his Holy Spirit and surrenders her life to into his hands. M 680 00:47:27.250 --> 00:47:29.769 Yeah, so with that, you know, I kind of want to wrap 681 00:47:29.849 --> 00:47:34.320 this thing up and give some people some something to chew on their things, 682 00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.480 an important subject. Yeah, if you have comments about this particular podcast, 683 00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.960 you have things that you want to you know, cut sort of run by 684 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.750 us, and thoughts you have about this subject, we'd love to hear from 685 00:47:45.750 --> 00:47:49.710 you. Can Connect with me at d parks at cities for lifecom, or 686 00:47:49.750 --> 00:47:54.190 Vicky with at v Costi Org at cities for lifecom. You can go to 687 00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:59.179 our facebook page, Charlotte cities for life and interact with us there. We 688 00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:01.699 do post these podcasts every now and then on our cities for life page. 689 00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:07.019 You can also go our sidewalks for life site that I mentioned earlier, sidewalks 690 00:48:07.059 --> 00:48:13.570 the number four and lifecom's equipping site for sidewalk counseling and we just love to 691 00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:16.090 hear from you. We're going to start putting some of these out on Youtube, 692 00:48:16.289 --> 00:48:21.730 probably just an audio form. We're doing some videos and really just hadn't 693 00:48:21.730 --> 00:48:23.650 had the time to process the videos and put them out there and sort of 694 00:48:23.650 --> 00:48:27.280 video form. But you can put them out there in audio form on Youtube. 695 00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.239 So I'm doing some of that. So you can comment there and I'll 696 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.880 be checking the comments from time to time. But we appreciate those who listen 697 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.280 and we appreciate you praying for the Ministry of Cities for life and praying for 698 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.670 this podcast that it reaches people and it has an impact for the Gospel. 699 00:48:43.349 --> 00:49:07.420 So God bless you. Use Mil use give me. Cost me my life, 700 00:49:09.889 --> 00:49:12.889 but these two precious