Are Abortion Minded Women Victims?

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord,200:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.509I am your. Welcome to theGospel Center pro life podcast. In300:00:10.630 --> 00:00:13.910this episode we're going to ask thequestion. Are Women who've had abortions or400:00:13.949 --> 00:00:18.589women considering abortion victims? This isan important question, so please stay with500:00:18.670 --> 00:00:34.700us. I felt show passish touchyour all right, welcome to the Gospel600:00:34.740 --> 00:00:38.689Center pro life podcasts. We're goingto talk about or ask the question,700:00:39.130 --> 00:00:45.770or abortion minded women victims or aboardof women? Are they victims? There's800:00:45.810 --> 00:00:50.119a lot, you know, inpro life circles and people talk about the900:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.799victimization of women through abortion and certainly, you know, we're going to talk1000:00:53.799 --> 00:00:57.759about some of that. How thereare certainly women that are victims. Yeah,1100:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.560but there's this mentality that people havethat, you know, women are1200:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.510simply just victims of the abortion industry, victims of Plan Parenthood, victims of1300:01:06.030 --> 00:01:11.870you know whatever, abortion pushing politiciansor whatever. And you certainly there's some1400:01:12.590 --> 00:01:17.709truth to that, but there's amentality that I think we need to we1500:01:17.790 --> 00:01:22.420need to address and that we needto have and have an understanding of as1600:01:22.540 --> 00:01:26.659prolifers. That and that we needto address. We need to reject that1700:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.659women are just simply victims it.You know, the the the old adage,1800:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.810I guess, that there are twovictims in an abortion. And while1900:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.450that can be true in some sense, it's not entirely true and I think2000:01:40.450 --> 00:01:42.370we need to look at it fromyou know, there's sort of a big2100:01:42.450 --> 00:01:46.969picture thing, right. Abortion issin. It's one of many sins that2200:01:47.090 --> 00:01:52.040human beings create and that societies embrace. And you know, if we just2300:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.879embrace the idea that abortion minded womenare a board of women are victims and2400:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.959as everyone else who commit sin,or they also victims. And you know,2500:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.269one sense yes, but in onesense no. We have to reject2600:02:04.349 --> 00:02:07.909the victim mentality, right. Orif you are a victim, is it2700:02:07.069 --> 00:02:13.669okay to to do it, terriblesin, in order to somehow get out2800:02:13.669 --> 00:02:17.659of the mess that has been createdthrust upon you? Yes, a victim,2900:02:17.740 --> 00:02:22.539that's good. The important question,you know, based on just saying3000:02:22.580 --> 00:02:27.620that, and we were talking beforewe started recording about the the situation,3100:02:27.659 --> 00:02:30.250maybe I'm jumping the gun a littlebit, but I think it has a3200:02:30.289 --> 00:02:32.650lot of theological implications. We talkedabout the first murder, we talked about3300:02:32.650 --> 00:02:38.169Kane enable. Yeah, and andyou matter of fact was just jump into3400:02:38.210 --> 00:02:44.050that. I'll read that that portionof scripture it it was interesting because I3500:02:44.129 --> 00:02:46.800was reading it this morning and itreally did jump out to me that it3600:02:46.879 --> 00:02:51.759actually related very much to what wewere talking about the first murder. What3700:02:51.919 --> 00:02:57.080motivated it? What was God's response? What were the people involved their response?3800:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.469Yeah, yeah, so this isin genesis chapter four and it talks3900:03:00.509 --> 00:03:05.310about how Kane and Abel to whenyou were born. Says that Abel was4000:03:05.349 --> 00:03:07.750a keeper of sheep, but Kanewas a tiller of the ground and in4100:03:07.830 --> 00:03:13.300the process of time came that cainbrought an offering of fruit to the Lord4200:03:13.379 --> 00:03:15.939the free of the ground, andable also brought the for the first fruit4300:03:16.300 --> 00:03:20.659of his flock, of their fat, and the Lord respected able and his4400:03:20.780 --> 00:03:25.219offering, but he but he didnot respect Kane and his offering. And4500:03:25.300 --> 00:03:29.370there's a lot of stuff people gowith that try to figure out why he4600:03:29.530 --> 00:03:34.050honored Abeles sacrifice they didn't honor Kanesacrifice. I don't think that's really part4700:03:34.090 --> 00:03:38.009of what we're going to be talkingabout. But basically, as the Lord4800:03:38.090 --> 00:03:40.409goes on, it says that Kaneor ISS a scripture goes on, it4900:03:40.439 --> 00:03:44.159says Kane was very angry and hiscountenance fell, and so the Lord said5000:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.599the Kane, why are you angry? Why is your Countenan's fallen? If5100:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.520you do well, will you notbe accepted? And if you do not5200:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.080do well, sin lies at thedoor and it's desires for you. But5300:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.710you should rule it, you shouldrule over it. And it says Kane5400:03:57.750 --> 00:03:59.870talked with his brother Abe. Whenit came to pass, as they were5500:03:59.909 --> 00:04:01.509in the field, Kane rose upagainst Abel, his brother, and killed5600:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.750him. And so that's sort ofthat. That's the first murder, right.5700:04:05.870 --> 00:04:10.460We believe the abortion is murder,right, and that's the first murder.5800:04:10.620 --> 00:04:13.979That's that was committed and we cantalk a little bit about you know,5900:04:14.060 --> 00:04:16.379I did see as I was readingthis, I could see where Kane6000:04:16.459 --> 00:04:20.259could consider himself a victim. I'mnot saying he was yet that that's a6100:04:20.379 --> 00:04:24.970good or correct perception, but Ithink you could make the case for it.6200:04:25.170 --> 00:04:29.569He he was rejected, he wasnot respected. It said that Abel's6300:04:29.810 --> 00:04:33.769offering was respected. Canes was notso. So right away we know that6400:04:33.930 --> 00:04:40.680Kane felt disrespected. His countenance fell, which means to me feels depressed,6500:04:40.879 --> 00:04:46.199just depressed. He's angry, he'sdepressed, he's been hurt and he's been6600:04:46.240 --> 00:04:51.279hurt by presumably the one that hewants to please. We would assume that6700:04:51.480 --> 00:04:58.709he brought his offering at least withsome desire to please and some degree of6800:04:58.790 --> 00:05:03.389obedience, right, and and soand and it was rejected. And so,6900:05:04.389 --> 00:05:08.819you know, I can relate.I mean you could say one sense7000:05:08.860 --> 00:05:15.060Kane was traumatized most exactly. Andand was his response at to we get7100:05:15.100 --> 00:05:19.500to his response yet I don't thinkwe did to Caine's response, that that7200:05:19.620 --> 00:05:24.009he murdered. Yeah, we read, we were there. So his response7300:05:24.129 --> 00:05:28.930was clearly not a good response,not a healthy response, but it was7400:05:29.009 --> 00:05:32.250a response of in in one way, you could look at it, of7500:05:32.730 --> 00:05:41.079a victim, h traumatized, hurt, damaged by by God. Yeah,7600:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.399and and his response was murder.Yeah, and I think that is not7700:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.389all that different in some ways ofwhat we see at at an abortion center,7800:05:49.430 --> 00:05:54.949right or in any sort of sin. When we look at those situations,7900:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.870that we can say, you know, you people ultimately are victims of8000:05:59.550 --> 00:06:02.110you know, our own our ownsin, our own decisions that we make.8100:06:02.230 --> 00:06:04.740We're victims of a fallen world.At this point. You know,8200:06:04.819 --> 00:06:09.579Kane was in the fallen world.Adam and eve had already sinned and and8300:06:10.019 --> 00:06:13.779they were ejected from the garden.And so, you know, he could8400:06:13.779 --> 00:06:16.180say he was a victim, Iguess. But one of the things that8500:06:16.220 --> 00:06:18.889I that we have to be carefulof them. We're talking about in particular8600:06:18.889 --> 00:06:25.810about abortion minded women, are postabortive women, is sort of giving some8700:06:26.009 --> 00:06:30.529kind of almost like leeway to thatsort of behavior, that because they're victims,8800:06:30.529 --> 00:06:32.720because they were in difficult situations,therefore we should look at them in8900:06:32.800 --> 00:06:38.639a particular way. Right, andthe perspective is different. was certainly with9000:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.160abortion minded women and post abortive women. We shouldn't look at them as less9100:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.759than human beings, we shouldn't lookat them as like just filthy and we9200:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.709should not talk to him or anythinglike that. But the other mentality of9300:06:50.829 --> 00:06:54.629we should just look at them andvic as victims is not right either.9400:06:54.829 --> 00:07:00.269And it's because abortion is a sinlike many other sins, right that people9500:07:00.389 --> 00:07:04.100choose to do right. If weif we see abortion as a different sin,9600:07:04.660 --> 00:07:09.620then we're sort of falling into thetrap of making abortion somehow worse than9700:07:09.699 --> 00:07:12.779other sins. And it is worsethan some other sins, that's sure.9800:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.620I think in the Scripture we seethat there there's a sin that leads to9900:07:15.699 --> 00:07:18.449death and it's and not not leadingto death. So we do see this,10000:07:19.129 --> 00:07:21.209that there are sins that are worsethan others, and that can be10100:07:21.250 --> 00:07:27.370a conversation for a whole other orwhole other podcast. But if you look,10200:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.839but if you victims, you canalso look at it almost that well,10300:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.439they can't help it. It isalmost express sort of where I'm going.10400:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.120Okay, yeah, we're it excusesthat behavior, right, and just10500:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.519as much as it does not excusethe behavior of a woman who, you10600:07:42.600 --> 00:07:46.470know, abuses and murder her threeyear old because she's he was raising about10700:07:46.509 --> 00:07:50.189a family and her boyfriend was abusive. You know, the mother who murders10800:07:50.230 --> 00:07:55.870her child three weeks or maybe threemonths old in the womb. Is Still,10900:07:56.550 --> 00:08:00.819though she has difficult situations and circumstances, it's not okay. We can't11000:08:00.860 --> 00:08:05.379validate that behavior based on the traumathat she's been through. Right. We11100:08:05.740 --> 00:08:11.019fall into that trap of making abortionsomehow this different sin, and yes,11200:08:11.259 --> 00:08:15.649different in ways, but sin stillleads to separation from God, no matter11300:08:15.730 --> 00:08:20.009what sin it is, and sinis is destructive to other people and also11400:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.930to those, yeah, who?Yeah, I meant the same. So11500:08:22.050 --> 00:08:26.689the discussion isn't is is we wantto make it very clear. The discussion11600:08:26.730 --> 00:08:35.559about whether abortion, people who haveabortions are victims are not. That is11700:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.759not to ever excuse abortion. Yeah, the point of it is that that11800:08:39.720 --> 00:08:46.870analyzing and understanding whether they are victimsor not victims helps us to better know11900:08:46.990 --> 00:08:50.509how to serve them honestly and howto respond. And that's that's sort of12000:08:50.549 --> 00:08:52.389the point, in less, whyI think this podcast is important. Right.12100:08:54.070 --> 00:08:56.460You know, I mentioned, aswe were talking before the PODCAST,12200:08:56.700 --> 00:09:00.299about volunteer years that we've had.Sure, people have come out and they12300:09:00.379 --> 00:09:03.139see what we're doing, they seesidewalk counseling or even, I'm sure,12400:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.259in pregnancy centers to they want tothey want to reach these poor innocent victims,12500:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.049these women who need save him andsave them right from from being victims12600:09:11.090 --> 00:09:16.929of abortion. Right, and Iget it. It's noble. However,12700:09:16.129 --> 00:09:18.690when we have people come out andthey come out for the first time with12800:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.850this mentality. Not all, butsome do come out with this mentalities.12900:09:22.850 --> 00:09:26.399Yeah, women are poor, innocentvictims and they're exposed to the women that13000:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.840they thought were victims, who areactually, as I believe was John Wesley13100:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.480or George Whitfield said in his day, these people are monsters of iniquity.13200:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.159That's a term that he used,and preaching the Gospel that human beings are13300:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.590monsters of iniquity. Right, welove our sin, right. And and13400:09:41.070 --> 00:09:43.509you see that an abortion clinic?Yeah, you do. I mean they13500:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.710come out there thinking these these thesepoor women who have led such such terrible13600:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.899lives and are being forced into theseterrible choices, and then you know,13700:09:52.019 --> 00:09:56.700you're being sworn at and kicked andand given the finger whatever, and you13800:09:56.779 --> 00:10:01.899realize, wow, these are theseare something rough, victims, victims,13900:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.700and you know. So I'll shareone story. I share this with a14000:10:05.740 --> 00:10:07.649lot of people who have that mentality. These women are just poor, innocent14100:10:07.730 --> 00:10:11.370victims of their circumstances and we needto see him as victims. You know,14200:10:11.409 --> 00:10:15.250I had a young lady who camethis is for her fifth abortion.14300:10:15.289 --> 00:10:18.129Yeah, okay, and she cameand she got out of her car and14400:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.090I was reaching out to her likewe normally do. Hey, man,14500:10:20.129 --> 00:10:22.399we have help available, we havea ultrasound right here. We want to14600:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.960help you, and she said,I'm going to kill this baby, she14700:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.279said. If I could spit itout of my mouth right now, I14800:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.600would. I'm like, okay,this is not a thing now, this14900:10:31.840 --> 00:10:33.600is and this is what I'll say. Many of the women, not I15000:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.110prefaced that, many of the women, I don't say all of them,15100:10:37.110 --> 00:10:41.149because we were going to talk aboutwere, but many of the women that15200:10:41.190 --> 00:10:45.990we encounter are not victims. Theyare victimizers and they full well know that15300:10:46.070 --> 00:10:48.789their baby is alive. They've seenultra sounds because they've some of them had15400:10:50.100 --> 00:10:54.019previous abortions or they've had previous childrenand they know that they have a living15500:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.019baby. Some of them are feelingtheir baby movings out of their women and15600:10:58.220 --> 00:11:01.700they could care less. That's right, they could care less. Well or15700:11:01.740 --> 00:11:03.370not it's a life. They couldcare less whether or not God values that15800:11:03.529 --> 00:11:07.169life. We see him with theirmiddle fingers up all the time. I'm15900:11:07.169 --> 00:11:09.889sure people in pregnancy centers, Iknow my wife is, shared stories.16000:11:09.970 --> 00:11:13.850She works and in a couple ofpregnancy centers and she shared stories of women16100:11:13.889 --> 00:11:16.809who come in there and they arethey are dead set, yeah, for16200:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.200lack of a better term, onhaving an abortion and they could care less16300:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.600if they're harming another person. That'sright. That is not a victim,16400:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.960right, that is a victimizer.Right, right. And so so maybe16500:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.799leaping into you know, e make, I think, a really important point.16600:11:31.840 --> 00:11:33.830I think anyone who's been on thefront lines of an abortion center would16700:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.309probably agree, agree with this atthere are some who are like that,16800:11:37.429 --> 00:11:46.429who are just hardened, angry,defiant, often times that just with no16900:11:46.620 --> 00:11:50.940respect for God. Yeah, andin fact mocking and mocking God. Yeah,17000:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.940that that is definitely a group.But but there are other groups that17100:11:56.179 --> 00:12:00.019that you see as well, otherways that you could characterize some of the17200:12:00.100 --> 00:12:03.970women and and I would think thebulk of them actually probably fall into what17300:12:05.129 --> 00:12:07.090we have just described, most ofthem. When seeing the majority, it17400:12:07.210 --> 00:12:11.330does seem victimizer than the victim.Yeah, it does. But but I17500:12:13.049 --> 00:12:16.120was thinking about this as we werediscussing this podcast and I think that there17600:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.720are two other groups that I thatI do see out there, and one17700:12:18.759 --> 00:12:24.039of them I would truly classify asvictims. Yeah, they I think they're17800:12:24.039 --> 00:12:31.190rare, but but they are outthere and you know, I I'll give17900:12:31.190 --> 00:12:35.909you some examples. We had ayoung teenager, I'll just call her m18000:12:37.230 --> 00:12:41.710these are true stories. And shecame. She was sixteen, Fifteen or18100:12:41.789 --> 00:12:46.740sixteen when she came. She's beenbrought by her boyfriend, but her grand18200:12:48.740 --> 00:12:52.820mother was was coursing, forcing,telling her she she had to have this18300:12:52.940 --> 00:13:01.090abortion. And so the team camewith with the the boyfriend, but it18400:13:01.169 --> 00:13:05.049also was very coercive, like veryhe was. He was forcing her as18500:13:05.129 --> 00:13:07.850much as the GRANDMAM. I thinkhe was helping to pay for it.18600:13:09.490 --> 00:13:13.320And and but the teen had alreadyplotted. She really did not want an18700:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.600abortion. She knew it was wrong. She wanted the baby. Yeah,18800:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.960and she had already plotted out howshe was going to escape. And so18900:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950she came aboard the RV. Wewe shared our resources and actually ended up19000:13:28.950 --> 00:13:33.429driving her home. And because shedidn't want to be anywhere near the the19100:13:35.629 --> 00:13:41.230boyfriend who was pounding on the RVdoor and Rednin us and and the next19200:13:41.309 --> 00:13:46.299day the grandmother actually tricked her intoher car, told her they were going19300:13:46.379 --> 00:13:54.740to pediatric Doctor Appointment and withheld medicationthat this girl needed for diabetes, I19400:13:54.820 --> 00:13:58.250think it was, and drove herto the abortion center. And this this19500:13:58.450 --> 00:14:03.690girl figured it out as she waspart way there. And and when the19600:14:03.809 --> 00:14:09.370car paused I think it was slowingdown for a stoplight. She jumped out19700:14:09.409 --> 00:14:13.480of the car, rolled down ahill ran as fast as she could to19800:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.720a warehouse where she called me.Yeah, and I got involved immediately.19900:14:16.799 --> 00:14:22.519The police got involved in ultimately thismom it was a wild story, but20000:14:22.360 --> 00:14:28.590ultimately cities for life and and awonderful, safe family helped this young lady20100:14:28.590 --> 00:14:33.070and she had the baby and thebabies alive and well. But in the20200:14:33.389 --> 00:14:37.590Lord sort of turn the heart ofthe grandmother to Right Ivan. Yeah,20300:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.259and I think there were issues withthe grandmother, mental issues as well,20400:14:41.299 --> 00:14:45.460but she did end up embracing thechild in the team ultimately, and I20500:14:45.500 --> 00:14:48.299don't know what happened to the fatherof the child. I didn't follow the20600:14:48.340 --> 00:14:52.210story that far. But but Iwould no doubt in my mind that was20700:14:52.250 --> 00:14:56.289a victim. Yeah, that wasa victim. And if we hadn't been20800:14:56.409 --> 00:15:01.330there and this girl had not beenso resourceful, and how many teenagers would20900:15:01.330 --> 00:15:03.490do that and would dare, wouldhave the courage to do that? You21000:15:03.610 --> 00:15:07.600know, I have no doubt thatthat that team would have been forced into21100:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.600an abortion and that that to me, is a victim. Yeah, there's21200:15:13.080 --> 00:15:18.519and there's I actually have lots ofstories of that sort of person. But21300:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.950I'll move on to what I thinkwould be the second class or classification.21400:15:24.509 --> 00:15:26.590lost. So so let's talk aboutthat. Because, okay, within this21500:15:26.710 --> 00:15:31.549classification, you know, whatever classificationor sort of the way we're viewing it's21600:15:31.590 --> 00:15:33.629not like there's some you know,right, we're making it up at clinicalize21700:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.019exactly, but it's just what weobserves. The victimize, right, and21800:15:39.139 --> 00:15:41.419then you have with that you havethe the person that's coerced. Right,21900:15:41.460 --> 00:15:46.100I have what are we category?What's our category for that? They are22000:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.980victims. They are two victims,you know, the sexual I didn't mention22100:15:50.129 --> 00:15:52.769that, and that that I thinkthey are victims, the victims of the22200:15:52.889 --> 00:15:58.090sex trafficking, trafficking that that sextrafficking is huge in our area and it's22300:15:58.169 --> 00:16:02.690huge, I think, in mostcities that those are oftentimes truly victims.22400:16:02.769 --> 00:16:07.240They cannot escape and the the person, the PAMP, whoever whatever he's called,22500:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.759that is in charge of those girlsis very skilled at keeping them terrified22600:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.830and under his control and they justeven if the police get them alone,22700:16:18.230 --> 00:16:22.590sometimes they will not speak up againstwhat they're going through. A lot of22800:16:22.629 --> 00:16:26.909fear for their life or for theirfamily, these lives. Yeah, yeah,22900:16:26.950 --> 00:16:29.309it's then. That's the point.That's what I want to touch on.23000:16:29.350 --> 00:16:32.269Also want to mention another that I'veencountered, I'm sure you have to,23100:16:32.830 --> 00:16:36.940at the abortion clinics, which ispeople who are foreign in which is23200:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.620some of these the sex trafficking cases. You know, these are foreign women23300:16:40.740 --> 00:16:42.740who, you know, have beentraffic to the United States and all of23400:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.740that, and it's like there's there's, you know, language barrier, culture23500:16:45.779 --> 00:16:51.210barrier, there's this you're out ofyour element and there's just this ability for23600:16:51.250 --> 00:16:55.570these these pumps to manipulate and allof that that. Yeah, but also23700:16:55.649 --> 00:16:59.409I counter women at the abortion clinic, mostly Hispanic, who come to the23800:16:59.450 --> 00:17:03.799abortion clinic who are told by theHealth Department or told by their ob doctor23900:17:04.279 --> 00:17:08.319that their baby was already dead,they're having a miscarriage and they need to24000:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.920go to this place and they don'tknow where they're going. They you need24100:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.400to go to this place and takecare of the problem. This place,24200:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.269of course, is the abortion clinic. These OBIE doctors and these health department24300:17:18.390 --> 00:17:22.589people are full have full knowledge ofwhere they're sending them. Sure these women24400:17:22.750 --> 00:17:26.150genuinely don't know they're going to anabortion clinic and some of them, I24500:17:26.390 --> 00:17:32.019know, have gone through with anabortion because they believe the person in the24600:17:32.019 --> 00:17:36.180lab coat. They believe the personthat seems to have have the authority with24700:17:36.339 --> 00:17:38.420and they sent us here. Andalso, after all, I've got a24800:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.220you know, respect this person becausethey have a lab coat, they have24900:17:41.259 --> 00:17:45.250a tied or whatever, and whatthey're telling me is right. You know,25000:17:45.329 --> 00:17:47.730I have a problem at this placeis going to handle it for me.25100:17:47.970 --> 00:17:49.769Yeah, and and you know,we've had women who have been sent25200:17:49.849 --> 00:17:55.049to the abortion clinic who are toldthey're miscarrying and, by God's crazy we're25300:17:55.049 --> 00:17:56.730able to get them on more themobile unit and find out there baby still25400:17:56.769 --> 00:18:00.400alive and actually not miscarrying. Right, and they choose live. Right,25500:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.720you know, and I want topeep back us a victim of just blatant25600:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.880lie, absolutely, and of peoplethat that that they should be able to25700:18:07.960 --> 00:18:14.109trust. And there was a womanwho came stopped by with with her living25800:18:14.230 --> 00:18:17.950child, her whole family, infact, not long ago she pulled over25900:18:18.109 --> 00:18:23.029and said that she had been toldby the health department that that she had26000:18:23.470 --> 00:18:27.819to abort her baby or they wouldremove her other children from the home.26100:18:29.099 --> 00:18:33.059Yeah, I mean that's a victim. That's someone who is being victimized by26200:18:34.259 --> 00:18:41.019government agency. That is disgusting andwrong. And and so, you know,26300:18:41.299 --> 00:18:44.849thankfully, she she was showing USher baby. She had chosen life,26400:18:44.930 --> 00:18:47.569right. She yes, she did. She did, she did.26500:18:47.849 --> 00:18:52.170She went to the abortion center andactually the reason she didn't fall for it26600:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.680is she got we got a holdof her. She stopped and talked to26700:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.400us and we said, they can'tdo that, do not worry and we26800:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.279will help you fight that. Andso I I wasn't here at the at26900:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.640that time. I think it waseight years ago, but it was cities27000:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.269for life. Yeah, that thathelped her and that helped her overcome that27100:19:11.230 --> 00:19:17.029blatant lie. Yeah, that wouldyou know? They I think that there27200:19:17.150 --> 00:19:22.269is this this perception among many that, okay, these are poor people,27300:19:22.710 --> 00:19:26.500they can afford to have these children. They're going to be on social services.27400:19:26.259 --> 00:19:30.740It'd be better off for everyone.Yeah, if they just to puchase.27500:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.380There's child total. Yeah. Yeah, it's Godless, God choice that27600:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.940you have the choice to say what'sright, what's beneficial to her and her27700:19:37.980 --> 00:19:41.890friendly as far as that goes.Right. So, yeah, I mean27800:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.609that's that to me. Would bein the category of victims, which is,27900:19:44.730 --> 00:19:48.210I think, one of the reasonswhy that when we're at an abortion28000:19:48.289 --> 00:19:49.849clinic, and will course continue onwith with some of this other but we're28100:19:49.890 --> 00:19:52.559at an abortion clinic, we doneed to be aware of that. Even28200:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.920though it's not the majority and andthere may be days where we're there and28300:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.640they're none of the women that fitin one of these categories. Right,28400:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.880we still need to be sensitive tothese situations and the way that we address28500:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.829people is sort of like, youknow, we sort of believe the best28600:20:07.829 --> 00:20:10.829until we're given a reason to putto believe otherwise. So if I see28700:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.309a woman come into middle fingers upand she's cousin, I'm not going to28800:20:14.589 --> 00:20:15.910approach her and talk to her.The same way if I see a woman28900:20:15.950 --> 00:20:18.430go in her heads down and tearsand right, yeah, you know,29000:20:19.470 --> 00:20:26.259typically with that sort of blazing,you know, brazen just anger and bitterness,29100:20:26.299 --> 00:20:27.660I'll just may be stinging with alittle bit of truth. You know,29200:20:27.740 --> 00:20:32.579your baby is precious inside of God. Don't kill your baby and pretty29300:20:32.619 --> 00:20:36.130much just let the Lord deal withthem. But when you see him and29400:20:36.210 --> 00:20:38.410again, we have to being beconsidering. There can be some of these29500:20:38.490 --> 00:20:42.690young ladies who are being cours beingforced sex trafficking victims, that when they29600:20:42.730 --> 00:20:48.809get out of their vehicle and they'regoing into the abortion clinic, making ourselves29700:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.039a way of escape that they cansee. You know, the Bible says29800:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.839and every temptation, God is faithfulinggives us a way of escape. That's29900:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.799how well counselors, as prolife ministersand whatever realm we're in, we need30000:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.509to be seen as a way ofescape, right, and we would literally30100:21:04.670 --> 00:21:08.029call out if you are being coerced, all you need to do is yell30200:21:08.150 --> 00:21:11.549help, come to us. Wewould call a police yeah, and so30300:21:11.789 --> 00:21:17.109you do need to make judgments.Sometimes, there's that word again, judge.30400:21:17.190 --> 00:21:21.299We have to judge, make judgmentsabout is this person being coerced?30500:21:21.339 --> 00:21:26.420There are certainly signs that that wecan look for an either in sec trafficking30600:21:26.619 --> 00:21:33.049or in just a mother coercing herteam. That's illegal and because that,30700:21:33.250 --> 00:21:34.569you know, if you make thatjudgment, then you're going to call out30800:21:34.650 --> 00:21:41.849differently. Yeah, to to tohelp them in whatever situation that they're in,30900:21:41.690 --> 00:21:45.170to let them know that we arethe way out, we are help.31000:21:45.329 --> 00:21:49.200They can call on us and wewill help them. So should we31100:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.039move on to what we think mightbe the the you know, kind of31200:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.440our again, we're just making thisup, but I think it is based31300:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.359on certainly based on experience, experience, it's based on what we've said,31400:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.789at least on what I've seen outthere. There are those, like we31500:22:03.829 --> 00:22:07.109said, the true victims, andthen a second category, though, are31600:22:07.190 --> 00:22:11.869those who, I think you calledit, victim of their circumstances, and31700:22:11.990 --> 00:22:18.099I think that that's a good wayof labeling it. I called it they're31800:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.500in crisis and they've lost their mind. Yeah, they just really these are31900:22:22.900 --> 00:22:27.259typically people who who would make achoice, maybe for God, certainly for32000:22:27.460 --> 00:22:33.130a stronger moral standard, and thatthey're the ones that will say I never32100:22:33.450 --> 00:22:38.009thought I would have an abortion.That's sometimes while here. That, yeah,32200:22:38.089 --> 00:22:41.569in the conversation with them, andsome of them you hear say,32300:22:41.609 --> 00:22:45.359I don't believe, I don't believein Abor, even abortion, but you32400:22:45.480 --> 00:22:52.880know exactly, and to me thoseare that's actually the the second largest group.32500:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.680I think that we see the truevictims. I think are the smallest.32600:22:56.759 --> 00:23:02.990But then there's these people in justenormous conflict and they're in the value32700:23:03.029 --> 00:23:06.950of decision. They're, you know, they're not decided. Yeah, whether32800:23:06.950 --> 00:23:08.470or not. Listen, there arewomen, you know, we have pretty32900:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.859choice people implying that when someone makesit to an abortion clinic their mind is33000:23:11.859 --> 00:23:15.700already made up. This is Ziculous, not true. There women have.33100:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.619Mine is not made up, evenafter they had the abortion act. You33200:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.339know, women that we encounter thathave taken the abortion pill, they've already33300:23:22.339 --> 00:23:26.500taken the medication, their mind stillin made up, when we've thankfully seen33400:23:26.539 --> 00:23:29.809some that have reversed that. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so33500:23:29.970 --> 00:23:37.089they they're because the crisis is sooverwhelming, they are in such terrible circumstances33600:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.279and so much fear has entered theirheart. Give us such scripture again.33700:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.960The what the spirit of fear?Yeah, so, God is not given33800:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.640us a spirit of fear, butif power, love and a sound month,33900:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.720least in Second Timothy came right,right, right, yeah, yeah,34000:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.119but God has not given us aspirit of fear, but power love34100:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.230in a sound mind. Right.And when we're under a spirit of fear,34200:23:56.349 --> 00:24:00.109power love and a sound mind goout the door. We're not thinking34300:24:00.230 --> 00:24:04.029soundly. Yeah, fear controls us. Fear has US think it irrationally.34400:24:06.069 --> 00:24:08.269It's kind of like a mouse calledin a mouse trap. Yeah, and34500:24:08.589 --> 00:24:11.099they want to get free. Andyou know that mouses legs got in the34600:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.059mouse trap. Yeah, it doends up knowing it's leg often and rather34700:24:15.099 --> 00:24:17.980than din from the being in themouse trap, it dies from bleeding from34800:24:18.019 --> 00:24:19.299not on its own way call.Yeah, yeah, kind of like that.34900:24:19.539 --> 00:24:22.940Yeah, a cornered animal, almosta cornered animal, like all those35000:24:23.140 --> 00:24:27.970fearful things are surrounding them and bearingdown on them and they're huddling in the35100:24:29.170 --> 00:24:33.490corner. Is Abortion, because thatis societies go to answer when you've got35200:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.450a struggle. Just just get ridof it instead of is exactly so.35300:24:38.359 --> 00:24:44.519So you know some of the storiesof women that I that I feel hit35400:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.920that category. We had a younglady who I'll call her em again,35500:24:48.839 --> 00:24:56.269and she she just she was hereall alone. Her family was in a35600:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.670whole nother country across the world.She did have a boyfriend, the father35700:25:00.829 --> 00:25:03.150the baby, with her, butreally no one else, no other support.35800:25:03.869 --> 00:25:08.259She was working in her dream anddesire was go to school, she35900:25:08.539 --> 00:25:15.900was working a lot of hours andand she just she didn't see how she36000:25:15.980 --> 00:25:21.890could possibly have a baby now hercircumstances, other than being kind of isolated36100:25:22.089 --> 00:25:26.089we're not all that terrible. Butbut she was someone who I think did36200:25:26.210 --> 00:25:32.369have a moral anchor and knew abortionwas wrong. She said she was actually36300:25:32.410 --> 00:25:36.599well, she worked with children asher livelihood, she loved children, but36400:25:37.720 --> 00:25:42.160she she took the pill. Shewent in there crying, knowing the whole36500:25:42.160 --> 00:25:47.480time it was wrong. And shetook the pill and immediately, she said,36600:25:47.480 --> 00:25:51.549as soon as it went down herthroat, she regretted it that moment.36700:25:51.869 --> 00:25:57.269Yeah, and and and ended upcalling the abortion pill reversal hotline and36800:25:57.309 --> 00:26:03.980ultimately successfully reversing reversing the abortion pill. Came to the Lord. She and36900:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.819her boyfriend married right away because theybelieved. So they were very soft for37000:26:07.940 --> 00:26:11.019the Lord and they said, yeah, let's do it. When when I37100:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.500shared the Gospel, yeah, let'sdo this right now, committed. So37200:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.569they jointly committed their life to theLord. They got married within a week37300:26:18.609 --> 00:26:22.569after that because they were so convinced, convicted that that was the right thing37400:26:22.609 --> 00:26:26.569to do. And they had thechild. So this is someone that had37500:26:26.650 --> 00:26:32.849aborted and, praise God, abortionpill reversal was available and we were standing37600:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.680out there calling that out and andour signs were up and she that baby37700:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.160was saved. There was another momand this is, I think, a37800:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.039very I think you spoke about thisa little the she was from very poor37900:26:45.079 --> 00:26:52.269language skills, no support. Shedid have a family that lived here,38000:26:52.349 --> 00:26:56.910but they all lived, like fifteenof them in this tiny little house.38100:26:56.029 --> 00:27:02.500There was no way that another babycould enter this environment. She was a38200:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.099she had already been told she wouldlose her job if she got pregnant.38300:27:06.140 --> 00:27:08.019I think she might have been paidbeing in a job that was under the38400:27:08.140 --> 00:27:11.660table. Yeah, she may havebeen here illegally. I'm not positive about38500:27:11.660 --> 00:27:18.410that. But just the circumstances wereall so terrible. The husband, well,38600:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.009there wasn't a husband, a boyfriendhad left her and was abusive on38700:27:22.130 --> 00:27:26.410top of it. So yeah,that's a terrible it's a terror. Her38800:27:26.490 --> 00:27:32.680parents, I believe, were alcoholicsand she knew that. So terrible,38900:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.680terrible circumstances. And yet again shewas crying. That's always kind of a39000:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.200tipoff. You see someone crying,you know there's conflict. Yeah, and39100:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.670she came aboard the RV, sawher baby, chose life and is one39200:27:44.710 --> 00:27:48.789of actually our most loyal supporters rightnow, just always sending us pictures of39300:27:48.869 --> 00:27:52.789her baby and overjoyed that she madea choice for life, but she was39400:27:52.869 --> 00:27:56.589someone that would be in that wouldI consider that second category. The circuit,39500:27:56.710 --> 00:28:03.339the circumstances were so overwhelming, thefear became so pervasive that that she39600:28:03.539 --> 00:28:10.259lost sight of who God was andwhat his commands were, and and that39700:28:10.420 --> 00:28:15.009there was a better choice. Yeah, and thank you telling her child Aments,39800:28:15.170 --> 00:28:17.490not just less, sort of likea shameless plug in. I guess39900:28:17.569 --> 00:28:21.049we always mentioned the sidewalks for lifesite, right. Yeah, yes,40000:28:21.329 --> 00:28:25.089for number for lifecom and I wrotean article on there which I think is40100:28:25.130 --> 00:28:27.640really good, and not because youtoo, my own horn, but it40200:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.039talks about just this. It talksabout the the that scripture that God has40300:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.160not given us a spirit of fear, but power, love and a sound40400:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.079mind. And sort of when aspirit of fear comes, when we're under40500:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.470this fear, in this we're afraidof what the future might hold, then40600:28:42.549 --> 00:28:45.549power, which is like the abilityto do the right thing, and that40700:28:45.750 --> 00:28:51.789that situation, it's really speaks amoral ability, the moral fortitude to do40800:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.750the right thing. Power that goesout of the door for under a spirit40900:28:53.750 --> 00:28:57.740of fear, spirit of fear love, which is love for God, love41000:28:57.859 --> 00:29:02.420for your neighbor, love for yourbaby, love for yourself. That goes41100:29:02.460 --> 00:29:07.339out the door. And one sense, and then so power, love and41200:29:07.500 --> 00:29:11.089a sound mind, sound mindedness,goes out the door again. That sound41300:29:11.210 --> 00:29:15.690thinking, that somehow believing that payingfor five hundred for an abortion is going41400:29:15.690 --> 00:29:19.210to make my finances better. Right. And it's like it's not sound to41500:29:19.410 --> 00:29:22.970think that way. It's not soundthinking. And and you know how will41600:29:23.009 --> 00:29:26.119we combat that? We combat thatwith faith. We combat that with God's41700:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.200word, with truth. We combatthat with the ultrasound to show them that41800:29:30.440 --> 00:29:36.160baby is a valuable human being andpainting a vision, painting a vision of41900:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.269what that child could be. Whatit what is their their ultimate goal?42000:29:41.390 --> 00:29:47.029I I often will say what doyou picture as the the perfect life for42100:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.789you? What do you want?At almost almost to a woman, they42200:29:49.910 --> 00:29:53.579say a family. Yeah, amom and dad, a baby in a42300:29:53.660 --> 00:29:59.940committed family. And and then wetalked about we what does it take to42400:30:00.059 --> 00:30:07.250get there? And and I lovewhat Sarah, our baby shower coordinator,42500:30:07.490 --> 00:30:11.410said this morning when she heard heardus talking about this, and she said42600:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.410she paints the picture of them asan overcomer. Yeah, that we can42700:30:15.690 --> 00:30:22.559overcome our circumstances. And and peoplelike to think of themselves as as being42800:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.880more than they thought that they couldbe, and I think it is valuable42900:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.039for us to see they can exactly. And what is it? That comes43000:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.789directly against society's mentality that we're allvictims. You, if you let people43100:30:34.950 --> 00:30:38.910just be victims, then guess what? They're going to stay victims, they're43200:30:38.910 --> 00:30:45.390going to they're going to be undervictimizing behavior and victimizing thoughts and ultimately we43300:30:47.829 --> 00:30:52.259will say every human being is avictim in some way. We're victim of43400:30:52.299 --> 00:30:56.180our own stupidity and were become ofour own sin. We're victim of the43500:30:56.259 --> 00:31:00.859lies of the devil, but itdoesn't make us just sort of say,43600:31:00.940 --> 00:31:06.730like vocational victims. Right, it'ssort of our vocation just to be victims.43700:31:06.890 --> 00:31:10.410Right. Society, though, hasbalked this lie and their whole communities43800:31:10.410 --> 00:31:12.289of people, you know, youmaybe even whole nations that have bought this43900:31:12.410 --> 00:31:15.250lot, that we're just victims andthere's just no way we can get out44000:31:15.250 --> 00:31:19.880from under this. But the Bibletells us that we are victors through him.44100:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.720So we're not victims. If we'rein Christ, we are victors.44200:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.880That's why it's important that we mean, when we encounter people who think that44300:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.319they're victims, they've been told thatthey're victims and in one since, yes,44400:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.750they are victims of lies and allthis other stuff, that we bring44500:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.789the victorious gospel of Jesus, Right, so that through him, because he's44600:31:37.829 --> 00:31:41.190the victor over sin. If we'revictims, then we're victims of sin by44700:31:41.190 --> 00:31:45.509our own will. Then, ifour wheel is given to the Lord,44800:31:45.549 --> 00:31:49.380he's the victor and we get thevictory that he won. Right. That44900:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.859was important for us to bring theGospel exactly. I like this. Maybe45000:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.539as the title Victor or victim,maybe that's what we need to start calling.45100:31:56.579 --> 00:32:00.579Yeah, that's good, that isreally good. But talking about them45200:32:00.619 --> 00:32:04.130as overcomers and one of the thingsthat we can do, and I think45300:32:04.170 --> 00:32:07.690it's good that we're sharing these storieswhere we see these women who were in45400:32:07.730 --> 00:32:10.809pretty difficult situation. Yeah, andeven m the young lady who talked about,45500:32:10.809 --> 00:32:15.369who genuinely was, I think,the team better category. Right,45600:32:15.529 --> 00:32:19.000she was a visue, that right. Yeah, and yet she's still overcame.45700:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.880She did, and she did andShit, and we helped her.45800:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.720So that's not to say that ifyou know, if you have a if45900:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.640you're a victim, that there isin help or that, or if you're46000:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.390not a victim, that there isa help. I mean, we're going46100:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.910to help. We're going to help, but we're not going to you know,46200:32:34.029 --> 00:32:37.750Christ will accept US wherever we are, but he doesn't leave us where46300:32:37.750 --> 00:32:40.670we are. He expects us togrow more like him each day. We46400:32:40.869 --> 00:32:45.140are to change we are. Thereis an upward call and I think with46500:32:45.380 --> 00:32:50.619em that teenager. She returned toschool. She ended up in a prey46600:32:50.700 --> 00:32:53.539dancy resource center where until she hadher baby, she returned to school.46700:32:53.579 --> 00:32:57.259Eternity home. I'm a turn yeah, I'm sorry, I'm eternity home.46800:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.930And and she did finish school,she did graduate, she did get a46900:33:02.049 --> 00:33:07.130job, she did restore her family. She was, you know, reunited47000:33:07.170 --> 00:33:12.690with with the family that had itreally victimized her. And you know,47100:33:12.809 --> 00:33:16.240and she's doing okay and she showSir Right. It isn't recover victor.47200:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.119And that's what happened with the otherm, the M that was in that47300:33:20.279 --> 00:33:23.759second, second category that did thepill reversal. You know, she got47400:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.190married, she had the baby,I think she's going back to school.47500:33:29.430 --> 00:33:32.589He's got a great job, hegot a job and and and they're they're47600:33:32.950 --> 00:33:37.109they're doing really well. But,and I want to think talk about that,47700:33:37.710 --> 00:33:42.819the ones that consider themselves victims butthey're not, and how that mentality47800:33:43.059 --> 00:33:49.779can really affect whether they make changes. Our ministry is not just to be47900:33:50.019 --> 00:33:53.819welfare and and to just keep givinghandouts to someone, because that doesn't help48000:33:53.819 --> 00:33:58.569anyone. That enables, I think, yeah, that to remain in in48100:33:58.930 --> 00:34:02.849whatever terrible circumstances you are. Butwe do want to help in a way,48200:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.010not only through tangible means, butthrough the Gospel, so that there48300:34:07.210 --> 00:34:10.000will truly be a change of hardchange of mind. Yeah, and they48400:34:10.039 --> 00:34:15.119will really try to to change theirlifestyle. But I remember a family that48500:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.519that we helped maybe more than anyother family. You know, it really48600:34:20.440 --> 00:34:23.550maybe thousands of dollars worth of worthof assistants, and at one point in48700:34:23.789 --> 00:34:27.829in when she had hit on hardtimes again, when she told me,48800:34:28.670 --> 00:34:32.349no one is helping me, ofcourse I'm in this situation and I just,48900:34:34.110 --> 00:34:37.579you know, I ride away,said that just is not true and49000:34:37.659 --> 00:34:45.500I started to list all the helpand and reminded her that that not only49100:34:45.539 --> 00:34:47.900had she been helped, but therecomes a point at which you just truly49200:34:47.980 --> 00:34:52.460have to make a decision. I'mgoing to live for the Lord, I'm49300:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.449going to do the next right thingand I'm going to keep doing the next49400:34:54.449 --> 00:35:00.250right thing. And so kind ofpointing your back to you can be a49500:35:00.369 --> 00:35:04.329victor, but it's in the Lord. Yeah, you're not going to find49600:35:04.369 --> 00:35:06.690it out outside of the time.So it's like, you know, you49700:35:06.730 --> 00:35:08.639can, you can stay under victimhood, if you want to write. Exact49800:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.039fact is, God is calling youup, he's calling you to be a49900:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.719victor. That's God's people. That'sthe message that we're bringing. You can50000:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.679be a victor and trusting in Jesus. Yeah, he's ultimately the victor.50100:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.309Over over, every yell. Yeah, they were given to one of the50200:35:23.349 --> 00:35:28.670things we love calling out to themen. That that plays right into this.50300:35:29.349 --> 00:35:31.710You could be a hero today.You could be a hero today.50400:35:31.789 --> 00:35:37.460God gave you your muscles, yoursuperior strength, to protect and help and50500:35:37.579 --> 00:35:44.019uphold vulnerable women and children. Yeah, and and so giving them that,50600:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.260that that image, that vision ofthis is who God designed you to be.50700:35:47.380 --> 00:35:51.530He designed all of us to beover comrage, to overcomes in through50800:35:51.570 --> 00:35:55.650the blood of Jesus and then throughfaith and to become more like like our50900:35:55.769 --> 00:36:00.090Lord. Yeah, I told youwhen we started I wanted to mention or51000:36:00.170 --> 00:36:02.289want to tell you a little bitabout your story, because you know,51100:36:02.409 --> 00:36:07.199it's not that that you certainly wehave experiences with other people, but you51200:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.199have a personal experience, I do, and you share that in your testimony51300:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.960in the first I'm it was likewhat the second podcast that we did,51400:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.639I believe, and and how youhad had an abortion. Yeah, and51500:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.070because you know, again, there'sthis mentality that abortion minded women, post51600:36:21.150 --> 00:36:23.429abortive women, are just victims,as I'll just ask you very pointedly.51700:36:23.469 --> 00:36:27.590Yeah, do you think you werea victim when you had your abortion?51800:36:27.630 --> 00:36:30.590Yeah, you feel like you're avictim. And I fall into the third51900:36:30.789 --> 00:36:36.380category, which is so it playsinto that hardhearted in rebellion from God.52000:36:36.940 --> 00:36:39.260Honestly, could care less, andI hate to say that now it's a52100:36:39.380 --> 00:36:44.500completely different story. I still weepover my abortion, but back then I52200:36:44.539 --> 00:36:51.969didn't know the Lord. I certainlybought into the lies of society, the52300:36:52.010 --> 00:36:58.769law. It was legal. Yeah, and and really just I really just52400:36:59.050 --> 00:37:04.239wanted to not feel sick anymore.I had big plans, you know,52500:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.599big aspirations, and a baby definitelydidn't fit into those. Yeah, and52600:37:08.360 --> 00:37:13.679and so it was getting rid ofan annoyance. It was. It was52700:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.469not. I honest, I'm prettysure I never thought of it as a52800:37:16.550 --> 00:37:22.989baby. Yeah, so I wasin full rebellion from God. Yeah,52900:37:22.989 --> 00:37:29.829I did not recognize, or desireto recognize at all the humanity of this53000:37:29.989 --> 00:37:36.019child or that I had any obligationto care for this baby. None.53100:37:36.420 --> 00:37:40.579Yeah, it was. It wasas alien to my mind as as anything53200:37:40.820 --> 00:37:45.170could be. Yeah, and soI guess I you know, I guess53300:37:45.210 --> 00:37:50.969I can understand where those women whocome to the abortion center, who present53400:37:51.289 --> 00:37:53.929with that same picture, I understandwhere they're coming from. That was me,53500:37:54.489 --> 00:37:59.159and it was through. It wasn'tuntil I came to the Lord that53600:37:59.199 --> 00:38:04.719I truly understood what I had doneand began to make a hundred eighty degree53700:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.920turn around in my feelings regarding abortion. Yeah, and who we're talking?53800:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.519We're saying that, you know,the majority of women that we encounter,53900:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.989HMM, are not victims but victimizers. Right, we're not just pointing the54000:38:16.030 --> 00:38:19.750finger. At least you're not justpointing the finger and say, and those54100:38:19.789 --> 00:38:22.190women are victimizers. Right, butyou're saying that's how I was, but54200:38:22.269 --> 00:38:24.909I was yeah, how, that'sit. I was myself. Yeah,54300:38:25.230 --> 00:38:30.820and and no one is saying,just so there's no false perception that you54400:38:30.900 --> 00:38:34.460know, somehow those women that arevictimizers and just, you know, are54500:38:34.539 --> 00:38:38.619brazen in their attitude toward abortion,that somehow they're unhuman, HMM, that54600:38:38.860 --> 00:38:44.250they're should be written off and shouldn'tbe reached. They should absolutely be reached.54700:38:44.329 --> 00:38:46.050Right, we're there to reach them, because I was reached. Yeah,54800:38:46.050 --> 00:38:50.210I was reached, not in timefor the baby, but in time54900:38:50.610 --> 00:38:57.840for my eternal safety and salvation andand you know my walk now. So55000:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.119we know that that people can changethrough yes, because we, you know,55100:39:01.280 --> 00:39:06.159we as believers, we don't havethe right to put ourselves as better55200:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.230than so when we're saying that womenare not always victims of abortions, matter55300:39:09.230 --> 00:39:13.230of fact, for the most partthey're not ms of abortion. Babies are55400:39:13.230 --> 00:39:16.070the victim, we're not writing themoff and we're not saying, you know,55500:39:16.590 --> 00:39:20.750somehow they're the worst people in theface of the planet. But we're55600:39:20.909 --> 00:39:23.380what we're doing is we're looking atthe biblical reality, and the Biblical reality55700:39:23.539 --> 00:39:28.139is that when we give ourselves tosin, we can blame sin. If55800:39:28.179 --> 00:39:30.619we want, we can blame thedevil. The den will maybe do it.55900:39:30.699 --> 00:39:32.460We can blame God. You lookat our first parents, Adam and56000:39:32.500 --> 00:39:37.739Eve, Yep, and look whenthey fell into sin, when Adam gave56100:39:37.780 --> 00:39:42.329himself to sin, direct disobedience toGod's command. WHO's the first person he56200:39:42.449 --> 00:39:45.570blamed? Right, God? Yeah, I mean he says it was the56300:39:45.690 --> 00:39:49.969woman that you gave me. Theaccusation is toward the woman, but the56400:39:49.969 --> 00:39:52.329first person he's blaming as God.Hey, if you wouldn't gave me this,56500:39:52.489 --> 00:39:54.719this woman, then after all,I wouldn't have wouldn't have been tempted56600:39:54.760 --> 00:39:58.639to Sind. She's the one thatgave me the fruit, and so I'm56700:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.159a victim God, and you're thevictimizer. Yeah, blaming God as sort56800:40:02.199 --> 00:40:06.239of like God's making us this victim. And the women say that. The56900:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.630women say that as well. Andat abortion center, Hey, the God57000:40:08.710 --> 00:40:12.550gave me this baby, he said. God created this baby. It's his57100:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.829fault. Let him deal with it. Yeah, which is which is ridiculous.57200:40:15.909 --> 00:40:17.349Yeah, and you know, sortof fits. Even when this story57300:40:17.429 --> 00:40:22.900with with Kane and Abel. Youknow, God warns Cane. You know,57400:40:22.940 --> 00:40:24.780your countenances fallow. Why is yourcountenance fallen. If you do well,57500:40:24.940 --> 00:40:28.619will you not be received? Soapparently, cane, you didn't do57600:40:28.699 --> 00:40:30.699so well. And you know,can could blame God and say God,57700:40:30.780 --> 00:40:35.929you're just you're causing trauma in mylife. Since I have trauma, I57800:40:36.090 --> 00:40:38.889need to act out, I needto do something with this trauma and I'm57900:40:39.010 --> 00:40:43.449justified in whatever I do. AndKnow God saying if you do well,58000:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.809then you'll be received. If youdon't do well, then sin crouches at58100:40:46.849 --> 00:40:51.760the door. It's desire is tohave you to God's warning him and we58200:40:51.840 --> 00:40:54.639see a warning in the scripture aboutsin and the progression of sin and when58300:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.800people give themselves to sin, theGod's not to be blamed. You Know58400:40:59.239 --> 00:41:02.519James, the first chapter, Jamessays that let no one say when he58500:41:02.559 --> 00:41:06.949is tempted, he is tempted byGod. God did not tempt Kane in58600:41:07.070 --> 00:41:09.590this even though he didn't receive hissacrifice. There was a reason he didn't58700:41:09.590 --> 00:41:15.070receive his sacrifice. Then would saywhen he's tempted, he's tempted by the58800:41:15.150 --> 00:41:17.070Lord, for God tempts no onewith evil. nors he himself tempted.58900:41:17.110 --> 00:41:21.019It's just not in God's nature totemp people the sin, right, and59000:41:21.139 --> 00:41:22.659it says, but each one istempted, when he's drawn away by his59100:41:22.699 --> 00:41:25.900own lust. When Lust is conceived, he gives birth to Sin and when59200:41:25.940 --> 00:41:30.780sin is fully grown, it bringsforth death. That's exactly what happened in59300:41:30.300 --> 00:41:36.369Cane's situation. It brought forced deathto his to his his brother Abel,59400:41:36.650 --> 00:41:39.730righteous able. Yeah, and itbrought, of course, devastation in Kane's59500:41:39.769 --> 00:41:44.409life as well. So he wasvictimized by his own his own sin and59600:41:44.610 --> 00:41:47.599that sense. And he wonders aboutthe Earth. You know, it says59700:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.440if I go somewhere, he pleadswith God and God had mercy on this59800:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.639gap. He did, had mercyon came and put his seal on Kane.59900:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.280And if anyone hurts you, thenthey'll have to deal with me.60000:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.400I'm paraphrasing right. That's amazing.It is as of course God, in60100:42:00.429 --> 00:42:04.110His mercy, he did that inyour life, right he yeah, he60200:42:04.469 --> 00:42:08.429pursued you. You ultimately surrendered yourlife to him and God took that as60300:42:08.510 --> 00:42:13.829you one time, we're a victimizer. Now you're helping women to see that60400:42:13.909 --> 00:42:16.179their baby is actually going to bethe victim of abortion and helping them to60500:42:16.219 --> 00:42:21.139choose life, right. So,yeah, that's cool, the way the60600:42:21.260 --> 00:42:24.619Lord in his in his awesome wisdomworks. Yeah, and can even take60700:42:24.699 --> 00:42:28.659the hardest of hearts, yeah,and turn them around. You have seen60800:42:28.699 --> 00:42:31.170women go in, I know you'veseen it to too, middle fingers blazing,60900:42:31.449 --> 00:42:35.130cussing us. They go in likethat, they have their abortion,61000:42:35.210 --> 00:42:37.969they come out and they're they're justdevastated, their hearts are broken, right,61100:42:38.250 --> 00:42:42.570and that's an opportunity for the Gospel. It is, it is.61200:42:42.730 --> 00:42:45.280Yeah. You know, as youwere talking about scripture, I I want61300:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.239to share some of the stuff thatthis morning I was I was doing a61400:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.480Bible study just on just where ithappened end up for that day. It61500:42:53.559 --> 00:42:58.559was on the book of Jeremiah andChapter Seven and eight, and I thought61600:42:58.590 --> 00:43:05.750it was a really it was likedescribing so so well what I would consider61700:43:06.429 --> 00:43:10.150the victimizer. Yeah, person outthere at the abortion center. So I61800:43:10.309 --> 00:43:15.219just read like a few pieces fromthose, from those verses. It's it's61900:43:15.300 --> 00:43:21.300in Jeremiah seven, starting in versefive and all the Way Jeremiah ending at62000:43:21.300 --> 00:43:23.980verse twelve. But I'm only goingto pick out a few. God is62100:43:24.059 --> 00:43:27.610talking now. He says, ifyou do not oppress the alien, the62200:43:27.650 --> 00:43:30.449orphan or the widow, and donot shed innocent blood in this place,62300:43:31.369 --> 00:43:35.449then I will let you dwell inthis place later, he says. Well,62400:43:35.489 --> 00:43:39.210you steal, murder and commit adulteryand square falsely and offer sacrifices.62500:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.719You say, we are delivered sothat you may do all these abominations.62600:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.760We hear all the time people sayingGod will forgive you, so I'm going62700:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.280to go in there and do thisabomination, but I will be delivered.62800:43:53.320 --> 00:43:59.030Yeah, this is what I commandedthem, saying, obey my voice and62900:43:59.110 --> 00:44:01.030I will be your God and youwill be my people and you will walk63000:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.190in the way in which I commandyou, that it may be well with63100:44:04.309 --> 00:44:06.869you. So God is painting theVision. Hey, you can do this,63200:44:07.110 --> 00:44:09.659you can, and it will bewell. But instead, what they63300:44:09.699 --> 00:44:14.539have done that which is evil inmy sight, and they have built the63400:44:14.579 --> 00:44:16.860high places, which is the Valleyof the son of Hennam, to burn63500:44:16.980 --> 00:44:21.820their sons and daughters in the fire, which I did not command and it63600:44:21.980 --> 00:44:27.809did not come into my mind.Yeah, and death will be chosen rather63700:44:27.969 --> 00:44:32.170than life by all the remnant,the remains of this evil family. They63800:44:32.250 --> 00:44:36.929refuse to return. They have spoken. What is not right. No,63900:44:37.210 --> 00:44:40.400man repented of his wickedness, sayingwhat have I done? I remember my64000:44:40.599 --> 00:44:45.760our abortion reversal. Ladies, shedid repent. Yeah, and say immediately,64100:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.000what have I done? And Yeah, she's that's why I'm saying I64200:44:49.079 --> 00:44:52.789think she's kind of in a differentcategory than then these really hardhearted people who64300:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.030don't repent. They don't say whathave I done? They justify it.64400:44:57.230 --> 00:45:00.670You'll hear them say, I antdouble down on it. They blame God64500:45:00.750 --> 00:45:04.989or blame circumstances or right or yeah, disregard that what they did was even64600:45:04.989 --> 00:45:08.179wrong. Yeah, and then thepeople saying peace, peace, but there64700:45:08.460 --> 00:45:14.300is no peace where they ashamed becauseof the abomination they had done. They64800:45:14.420 --> 00:45:19.260certainly were not ashamed. So thoseare, you know, I think,64900:45:19.380 --> 00:45:24.889pretty eloquent descriptions of of what wesee. And then, in contrast,65000:45:25.610 --> 00:45:30.250think about, I think we've talkedabout it before, the Hebrew with midwives65100:45:30.250 --> 00:45:35.570who were told by the King ofEgypt to to kill the the Hebrews sons.65200:45:35.610 --> 00:45:40.519Yeah, and they were to putthem to death. And the but65300:45:40.679 --> 00:45:45.639the the scripture says, but themidwives feared God and did not do as65400:45:45.679 --> 00:45:47.639the king of Egypt commanded them.But that the boys live. So God65500:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.949was good to the midwives. Thepeople multiplied and became very mighty because the65600:45:52.070 --> 00:45:57.269midwives feared God. He established householdsfor them. Yeah, so you can65700:45:57.429 --> 00:46:00.989choose. Right, God has givenus the ability to choose to do what65800:46:00.110 --> 00:46:04.659he has told us to do.But there's a group that clearly is not65900:46:04.980 --> 00:46:09.579going to do that. And andso that's that's probably the hardest group of66000:46:09.820 --> 00:46:14.139people that we eat. And menin the abortions are mostly the people that66100:46:14.340 --> 00:46:16.820just walk in there and it's like, you know they're going to do what66200:46:16.900 --> 00:46:21.050they're going to do. And youknow, we should weep over those people.66300:46:21.050 --> 00:46:22.449Yeah, I should. I justbe, you know, forget them.66400:46:22.610 --> 00:46:25.690And Yeah, and you know they'retoo hard and to even be reached.66500:46:27.090 --> 00:46:30.289I should weep over that. Yeah, and and not forget. I66600:46:30.329 --> 00:46:32.559mean you personally say and I canpersonally say. You know, I shared66700:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.599my testimony in the first per acouple of podcasts that we did, and66800:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.559part of my testimony is at thatpoint in my life, if I could66900:46:39.599 --> 00:46:44.119have taken my girlfriend to have anabortion and when she when I found out67000:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.710she's pregnant, I would have,because I was a selfish little punk living67100:46:46.750 --> 00:46:52.389for myself. Yeah, and Iwould have, without any any second thought67200:46:52.469 --> 00:46:55.670to it right, taking her downhere. Thankfully, Gott in his in67300:46:55.750 --> 00:47:00.469His mercy, gave her the strengthto not even reveal it to me.67400:47:00.710 --> 00:47:04.019The little too late. Yes,it. Yeah, but we know,67500:47:04.260 --> 00:47:07.980like we're no better than those victimizerwomen. Apart from Christ right, I'm67600:47:08.019 --> 00:47:12.300no better. Yeah, but bythe grace of God, he's changed us67700:47:12.579 --> 00:47:16.489and he's made us victors rather thanvictims. He's made us victors rather than67800:47:16.489 --> 00:47:22.329victimizers, and he can do thatto anyone who who has a confrontation with67900:47:22.369 --> 00:47:25.570him and his Holy Spirit and surrendersher life to into his hands. M68000:47:27.250 --> 00:47:29.769Yeah, so with that, youknow, I kind of want to wrap68100:47:29.849 --> 00:47:34.320this thing up and give some peoplesome something to chew on their things,68200:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.480an important subject. Yeah, ifyou have comments about this particular podcast,68300:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.960you have things that you want toyou know, cut sort of run by68400:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.750us, and thoughts you have aboutthis subject, we'd love to hear from68500:47:45.750 --> 00:47:49.710you. Can Connect with me atd parks at cities for lifecom, or68600:47:49.750 --> 00:47:54.190Vicky with at v Costi Org atcities for lifecom. You can go to68700:47:54.230 --> 00:47:59.179our facebook page, Charlotte cities forlife and interact with us there. We68800:47:59.300 --> 00:48:01.699do post these podcasts every now andthen on our cities for life page.68900:48:04.380 --> 00:48:07.019You can also go our sidewalks forlife site that I mentioned earlier, sidewalks69000:48:07.059 --> 00:48:13.570the number four and lifecom's equipping sitefor sidewalk counseling and we just love to69100:48:13.610 --> 00:48:16.090hear from you. We're going tostart putting some of these out on Youtube,69200:48:16.289 --> 00:48:21.730probably just an audio form. We'redoing some videos and really just hadn't69300:48:21.730 --> 00:48:23.650had the time to process the videosand put them out there and sort of69400:48:23.650 --> 00:48:27.280video form. But you can putthem out there in audio form on Youtube.69500:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.239So I'm doing some of that.So you can comment there and I'll69600:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.880be checking the comments from time totime. But we appreciate those who listen69700:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.280and we appreciate you praying for theMinistry of Cities for life and praying for69800:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.670this podcast that it reaches people andit has an impact for the Gospel.69900:48:43.349 --> 00:49:07.420So God bless you. Use Miluse give me. Cost me my life,70000:49:09.889 --> 00:49:12.889but these two precious