May 14, 2020

Adoption and Frontline Prolife Ministry, How Do These Two Ministries Work Together

Adoption and Frontline Prolife Ministry, How Do These Two Ministries Work Together

We all believe that adoption is a wonderful thing but many pro-lifers have a hard time understanding why so many women chose abortion over adoption. In this interview, Jessica Mullen, director of Option-Adoption, explains some of the issues that make...


We all believe that adoption is a wonderful thing but many pro-lifers have a hard time understanding why so many women chose abortion over adoption. In this interview, Jessica Mullen, director of Option-Adoption, explains some of the issues that make offering adoption to an abortion-minded mom difficult and how we can overcome those difficulties.

http://www.option-adoption.com/

www.sidewalks4life.com

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.679 I am yours. I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life 2 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.830 podcast. In this episode we have a special guest, Jessica Molin, with 3 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:12.550 option adoption. She talks about some of the dus and don'ts of mentioning adoption 4 00:00:12.589 --> 00:00:16.949 to an abortion minded mother and shares her family's adoption testimony. This is a 5 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.350 skype interview and the sound quality may be slightly lacking, but we still think 6 00:00:20.350 --> 00:00:31.859 it'll be a blessing. Stay tuned. I felt show passis touch your use. 7 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:36.890 Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. You appreciate you guys who 8 00:00:37.009 --> 00:00:40.570 listen. We Hook this podcast will be a blessing and encouragement to you guys. 9 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:44.369 We have today with this Jessica Molan. Say Hey, Jessica. Hey 10 00:00:44.450 --> 00:00:48.890 there, it's good to have you just Jessica is with option adoption. She 11 00:00:48.969 --> 00:00:51.880 started this Ministry of some time ago. She'll share a little bit of her 12 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.679 story in that. But reason why I felt like we needed to have this 13 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.880 podcast, I mean Vickie talked about having this podcast, is we are getting 14 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:00.640 a lot of questions. I mean we always have, but now even more 15 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.750 so, getting a lot of questions of people asking don't you guys offer adoption 16 00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:07.790 at the abortion center? I would love to adopt a baby. Can You? 17 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.629 Can you connect you with a mom at the abortion center that would want 18 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:15.230 to let us adopt her baby? So we want to talk about some of 19 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.700 those questions and we thought Jessica would be the perfect person to answer some of 20 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.060 those questions talk about some of that, because she has a perspective of being 21 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:29.540 involved in adoption and helping people place their children for adoption and helping people can 22 00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:33.370 nect with MOMS who want to adopt, but also even has an adoption story 23 00:01:33.450 --> 00:01:37.329 in her past and with her family and stall some story and she's been on 24 00:01:37.370 --> 00:01:40.689 the sidewalk to sky kind. She has the best of all the world's that 25 00:01:40.769 --> 00:01:44.049 we're discussion. Yep, so, so, Jessica. That's why we wanted 26 00:01:44.049 --> 00:01:47.049 to bring you on. So if you could just to give the folks a 27 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.359 little bit of context understanding who you are, cheer, cheer, who you 28 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:57.120 are, what the ministry does and your story personally of your little girl, 29 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.230 Blythe and how the Lord orchestrated all of that. Okay, would love to. 30 00:02:02.390 --> 00:02:07.790 Well, let's see, my husband and I and our family really started 31 00:02:07.389 --> 00:02:13.830 with the sidewalk ministry. I would say, it's been close to seven or 32 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:17.219 eight years ago now, and we really didn't know a whole lot about sidewalk 33 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.900 ministry. was just kind of where the Lord planted us. And then once 34 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:25.699 we had been on the sidewalk for about a year, we started to really 35 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:34.689 ask more questions about how many women choose life and place for adoption versus going 36 00:02:34.770 --> 00:02:38.530 forward with an abortion. And the reason we were asking that question was because 37 00:02:39.409 --> 00:02:45.439 we had just gone through an adoption of our little girl life, and we 38 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.800 didn't really know her whole story when we first adopted her, but as started 39 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:55.000 to unfold, her birth mother shared more and more about the situation while she 40 00:02:55.120 --> 00:03:00.150 was pregnant with life, and so that really lit to fire on us to 41 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:05.110 be on the sidewalk even more and then to ask those questions that I mentioned 42 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:10.189 before, which was how many women really choose adoption over abortion? And what 43 00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:15.659 we started to find out was a really grim statistic, which was less than 44 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:23.020 two percent of women choose adoption over death. And that just broke my heart 45 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:27.409 because, you know, for my husband and I we were sitting here with 46 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:31.250 this living example of what choosing life looks like. But not just that, 47 00:03:32.169 --> 00:03:38.090 but also the added layer of placing that child into an adoptive family. And 48 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:43.879 so what we did was we went on a journey and we essentially ask the 49 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.439 Lord to guide us to a ministry that was already in place here in the 50 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:57.270 US. That was frontline ministry that helped people who were abortion determined or abortion 51 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:02.110 minded the adoption as a choice. And I'll be honest, I searched high 52 00:04:02.189 --> 00:04:06.710 and low. I could not find anybody that was doing it frontline. Now, 53 00:04:06.750 --> 00:04:12.500 there were lots of adoption agencies and different resources like that, but the 54 00:04:12.620 --> 00:04:16.180 front line is really where our hearts are and that by sidewalk ministry is yeah, 55 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:20.180 I'm very passionate about it. So I was like, Oh my goodness, 56 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:24.100 Lord, are you calling us to start a ministry? Because I'll just 57 00:04:24.220 --> 00:04:28.290 be honest with you, my mindset about ministries are there are a lot of 58 00:04:28.370 --> 00:04:30.810 them and I'm not so sure we need so many of them. So I 59 00:04:31.209 --> 00:04:36.610 was very hesitant that the Lord was calling us to that and we really took 60 00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:41.160 a long time to pray about it. We had just decided to start homeschooling 61 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.800 our son, who was our oldest, and we had just adopted life not 62 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.160 too long before that. So I was thinking, Wow, this is a 63 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.399 big rolling here, a Lord that you're asking us to do, but with 64 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:56.870 support of those around us and, you know, cities for life being with 65 00:04:57.110 --> 00:05:00.470 them a leading up to that there was lots of support around kind of starting 66 00:05:00.509 --> 00:05:05.550 a branch of a ministry that would help with the adoption component. So that's 67 00:05:05.629 --> 00:05:10.860 kind of, in a nutshell, how my husband and I came to start 68 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:15.740 up to adoption, and what fuels our passion for that is the fact that 69 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:21.730 we adopted our daughter and she was spared from abortion. Just so took him 70 00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:27.329 talk a little bit about what exactly option adoption does, just in a brief 71 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:33.490 summary or so. Option adoption is a little different than other adoption ministries because 72 00:05:33.529 --> 00:05:39.000 of that one component that I was just mentioning, that frontline component. What 73 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:46.040 we like to do is train frontline ministries like sidewalk monistries like these for life. 74 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.589 Sometimes it's been with pregnancy resource centers. It's also been with lay people 75 00:05:50.790 --> 00:05:57.029 or church leaders, and what we like to do from an educational side is 76 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:03.500 help people understand on what adoption is so they can talk about adoption with women 77 00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:10.220 and men who are abortion minded. The other side of the ministry is directly 78 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:15.899 working with those abortion minded men and women, and that has just been an 79 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:20.730 amazing experience because I think what happens a lot of times is a woman who's 80 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:27.930 abortion minded maybe very fearful of directly talking to an agency and adoption agency. 81 00:06:28.490 --> 00:06:32.199 So option, adoption is like a neutral ground for her. She's not feeling 82 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.279 as if she has to go ahead and pull the trigger on that right away. 83 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.199 We are a resource that can help her understand what adoption is, what 84 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.079 her choices are and how it's different than, let's say, foster care, 85 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.910 because that's a big myth that you know. It's the same as foster care, 86 00:06:49.069 --> 00:06:54.430 and so that's kind of our two big things that we do. So 87 00:06:54.629 --> 00:07:00.709 one is educational for those that want to walk alongside of women and men that 88 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:05.939 are abortion minded, and the other side is directly working with a woman or, 89 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:11.379 you know, a man that is abortion deferment. Okay, Great. 90 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:16.889 So you said that two percent. was that two percent women that actually consider 91 00:07:17.610 --> 00:07:24.970 adoption? There? Well, the two percent is the number of women who 92 00:07:25.089 --> 00:07:30.720 actually choose life and then go forward with adoption. Okay, right, right. 93 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.399 So okay, then low number. M So it is a really low 94 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:38.519 number and that has definitely been our experience. In fact, I've been out 95 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.199 there what six and a half years, something like that now, and I 96 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.350 have never had a woman choose adoption and in fact, if I mention adoption, 97 00:07:46.709 --> 00:07:51.029 it's often a showstopper. They they no longer want to talk to me 98 00:07:51.589 --> 00:07:55.629 just because had something that you have faced. And can you address that? 99 00:07:55.829 --> 00:08:00.779 Why that happens? And maybe you said you train people so that that doesn't 100 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:03.819 happen, and it would it would be great to hear some of the things 101 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:07.139 that might guide us out there. Yeah, I'll just jump in here real 102 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:11.459 quick before you answer that, Jessica, and just you know, our experience 103 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:15.889 is, again, like a started talking in the Intro, was that we 104 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.009 get people always asking us aside wont counselors, don't you guys off all for 105 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.730 adoption? Yeah, and then even some people with the mentality that like we 106 00:08:22.810 --> 00:08:26.689 need to stand out in front of the abortion clinic can just say I'll adopt 107 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:30.120 your baby. Yeah, your baby right, and there are people that, 108 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:31.639 I think you know, with good intentions, think that that's the best way 109 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.080 to offer adoption of that context. Yeah, but not always is an option. 110 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.759 They first thing. I mean very, very often it's not the first 111 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.669 thing we need to say right, I'm in total agreement. Yeah, I 112 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:48.149 totally agree with what you just said. I would I would say my experience 113 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.309 lines up with exactly what both of you just mentioned. From my years of 114 00:08:52.429 --> 00:08:56.580 being on the sidewalk, I will tell you that I don't think it's something 115 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.779 that we should lead with, and there's a big reason. Obviously, a 116 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:07.659 woman WHO's chosen to walk into an abortion clinic has many things going on at 117 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.889 that time and a lot of times, like Vicky you said, it being 118 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:18.690 a show stopper is because that's a very emotional topic and many times, you 119 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.370 know, you will hear from a woman who is anchored by someone saying that, 120 00:09:22.730 --> 00:09:26.840 you know, if I cannot raise this baby, nobody's going to raise 121 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.840 this baby. And so that's why it's probably not the best thing to lead 122 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.320 with. What I have found is after talking with someone about the reasons that 123 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:41.870 to the clinic situation is being able to go through some scriptures with them, 124 00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:48.950 with the Gospel, a lots of heart is softened and honestly, I depend 125 00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:52.740 totally on the Holy Spirit as to when I am to talk about adoption or 126 00:09:52.820 --> 00:09:56.379 not. There are many times that it does not come up at all for 127 00:09:56.539 --> 00:10:00.019 me when I'm with a woman on the sidewalk, but there a are plenty 128 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:05.179 of times that it does and our ministry has had just amazing results with women 129 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:11.929 placing for adoption. So it's good at least build some kind of repoor with 130 00:10:11.049 --> 00:10:16.330 an abortion ated woman and build a relationship with her before you introduce the subject 131 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.409 of adoption. Absolutely, I mean I think if we if we were to 132 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.080 turn it and think about what that woman may be feeling in that moment, 133 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.159 you know, if that would be the very first thing we lead with, 134 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.240 it's a could be a big turn off. I'm not saying that happens in 135 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.399 every case, but I would say a majority of the cases. If we 136 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.110 can build the upport first and that a trust, and build it as quickly 137 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:46.870 as we can, then it's almost as if we have earned the ability to 138 00:10:46.990 --> 00:10:50.460 go into a much deeper subject. That I'll just be honest. There is 139 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:56.899 a lot of emotion surround around the subject of adoption. Just is and you 140 00:10:56.980 --> 00:11:01.419 know what I'll say about that is, if we think of it from a 141 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:07.450 biblical standpoint and a spiritual standpoint, you know, God created the mother that's 142 00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:11.529 carrying that child to be that child's mother and the father of that child to 143 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:18.960 be that child's father. And so adoption at its core is counter to what 144 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.679 the Lord intended for the Child. Okay, now I say that and those 145 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.120 are listening, you know some that are adoptive parents, they may be saying, 146 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.559 why is she saying that? Well, because at it the truth. 147 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.549 Now and and so when we're doing something counter to what it is that God 148 00:11:35.710 --> 00:11:41.590 intended, we know that there's going to be opposition to that and it's actually 149 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.029 in the spirit realm right. So we have to we have to know what 150 00:11:45.149 --> 00:11:50.820 we're going into. So that's why I really caution those that are talking to 151 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:54.620 someone who's abortion minded not let adoption be the very first thing, but kind 152 00:11:54.659 --> 00:12:01.529 of kind of build that rapport in that trust and then offered as an option. 153 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:05.529 It definitely needs to be offered. I mean I am a big advocate 154 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.450 of it being offered, even if, even if right a way, you 155 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:11.769 know that the woman has said. You know what, before I do that, 156 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.080 I would parent. It's still needs to be offered because what we found 157 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.120 when we started the ministry it was people are so uncomfortable around the subject of 158 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.879 adoption that they sometimes don't even mention it. And so I'm a huge advocate 159 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.990 of, you know, training people how to mention it and how to build 160 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.429 that rapport first, before we do just cut can eat. Can you give 161 00:12:35.509 --> 00:12:41.190 us some specifics about what situations or statements you hear from the abortion minded moms 162 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:50.740 that trigger you into feeling this is the time to mention adoption? A lot 163 00:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.580 of times, you know well, as you both know, every situation is 164 00:12:54.820 --> 00:13:00.370 so, so different, and I'm really trying to listen to the heart of 165 00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:05.490 that woman. Tell me that there's something that's going to keep her from being 166 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.610 a parent. Okay, now, obviously, if they're in the situation, 167 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:13.440 they're coming to an abortion clinic. They don't want to parent. That's just 168 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.639 the truth. They don't want to parent, they're trying to in that process. 169 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:22.960 And so once built that rapport with her and that trust and I've broken 170 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.840 down and maybe she's telling me you know what, like Elf for instance, 171 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:31.389 and two weeks ago I had a woman that was coming to an abortion clinic 172 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:35.710 stop her in the per working long before she went in and she had lost 173 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.259 her jug due to the COVID nineteen crisis. And so for her I was 174 00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.460 able to find out that it was a financial reason. Okay, so, 175 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:50.860 once I've isolated that reason. What I like to do is kind of talk 176 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:56.129 to them in more depth about that and find out, you know, where 177 00:13:56.169 --> 00:14:01.409 they stand on seeing can they see past today? A lot of times when 178 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:05.370 someone's in a crisis mode like that, it just can't see past today, 179 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:13.480 and and then reminding them that the choice of abortion is forever, whereas the 180 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.600 circumstances can change with the help of, you know, our ministry or ministries 181 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.960 like ours. And then if she still is saying, you know, I 182 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.029 just cannot parent, here's the reasons why. That's when I will usually go 183 00:14:28.269 --> 00:14:31.429 in with the option of a option for her and kind of just see where 184 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:37.029 she is about her knowledge of adoption. Every woman comes to the situation print. 185 00:14:37.470 --> 00:14:41.220 I have many women who have been in the foster care system, so 186 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:46.059 they have the idea of the adoption is foster care, and so we have 187 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:52.419 to learn to just spel that myth. That is number one. Appreciate you 188 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:56.009 mentioned Jessica, and one of the things that I think you know us, 189 00:14:56.330 --> 00:15:01.929 I would say white Christians especially don't really understand, is that we deal with 190 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:07.090 a lot of African American young ladies at the abortion clinic and the statistics are 191 00:15:07.129 --> 00:15:11.320 a lot of those women have either been in the foster care system or know 192 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:15.440 people that have been, and when we say adoption, they hear foster care, 193 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.080 and so talk a little bit about, if you can, how we 194 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.029 how we dispel that that lie. That's not they're not the same, even 195 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:26.350 though foster care is not a bad thing. No one's saying that it is. 196 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:28.429 They're just some people that have some bad experiences. Have had some bad 197 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.629 experiences in the foster care system. But how do we? How do we, 198 00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:37.860 and again I don't know if it's not just African American women, but 199 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.620 the statistics are that, you know, in the fall care system there's a 200 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:43.899 lot of African American right, ladies that grow up in that. Yeah, 201 00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:48.220 young men that grow up in that. How do we dispel those myths and 202 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:52.289 how do we separate those two things? Foster Care in adoption? These two 203 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:56.409 are not the same in a way that she can hear that. I think 204 00:15:56.529 --> 00:16:00.009 the the biggest thing that I do when I'm speaking to a woman and I 205 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.720 find out that that's on her radar, it's like a red flag for her. 206 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.200 She's saying foster care. The first thing that I do is make sure 207 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:14.919 she understands the difference, and what I lead with is that adoption is making 208 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:22.629 a plan for her baby before that baby's birth and that mother choosing a family 209 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:26.269 for that child. So if you're able to put it like that to someone, 210 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:33.100 I think it helps ease all those fears that like maybe if she was 211 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.539 in the foster care system herself. We all know, unfortunately, many of 212 00:16:37.700 --> 00:16:41.740 the children that come through foster care do not remain with one family and depending 213 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:47.610 on the age that you start in foster care, you can be bounced between 214 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:52.250 eight to ten family sometimes it's the average you're entering, you know, around 215 00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:57.690 zero to two years old. So that's really the main thing because remember, 216 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:03.320 obviously we're talking about it from a sidewalk counselor perspective. We may not have 217 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.440 a whole lot of time, so we've got to know, we got to 218 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.400 be armed and prepared for the information. That is the number one thing I 219 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:15.230 would say to always lead with, because that kind of that helps ease those 220 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:21.829 anxious thoughts that they're having about adoption. And then I usually get more questions 221 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:25.710 from them after that. Sometimes they still shut me down about adoption, but 222 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.829 there are many times where they ask more questions because when a woman feels like 223 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:34.700 she has the power to choose the family for her child and she's part of 224 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:40.380 that and it can be done while she's still pregnant, that's very free for 225 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:45.130 her and she doesn't feel as if a child's going to be taken from her 226 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.210 and then placed into a system that she might not be part of. Along 227 00:17:49.289 --> 00:17:53.369 those same lines, I've talked with the very few times I have brought adoption 228 00:17:53.410 --> 00:18:00.319 up at at all, it is often perceived as only closed adoption and I 229 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.680 really knew very little about open versus closed adoption until I met you, frankly. 230 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:07.759 So could you talk about that, because I think that's helpful too. 231 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:12.549 I knows when I have spoken about adoption, when I've described an open adoption, 232 00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:18.109 the women do seem more open to the idea. Yes, I find 233 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:22.630 the same thing. So I always love for everybody to know as much as 234 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:29.900 they can before counseling with, you know, women in these situations. And 235 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:33.339 so the best way for us to break it down is that there are three 236 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:41.019 types of adoptions. There is full open and then there's semi closed and closed. 237 00:18:41.059 --> 00:18:45.730 Okay, so I'll break that down. So the open is exactly what 238 00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:49.450 it what it sounds like. So the the mother and possibly the birth thought 239 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:55.799 there as well have an open relationship with that child as that child is growing 240 00:18:55.880 --> 00:19:00.319 up. Now the adoptive family, along with the birth mother and possibly the 241 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:07.279 birth fathers around that how much open this there is in their comfort levels, 242 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.349 and that's all done as part of that adoption plan that I was talking about. 243 00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:15.670 Now give you an example of that, because to help your listeners. 244 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:23.269 So in our case we have it set up with my first mother that once 245 00:19:23.299 --> 00:19:27.859 a year, sometime time around her birthday, that her birth mother and the 246 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:33.500 grandparents and even aunts and uncle's can come and visit. We usually spend an 247 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:37.940 entire day with them and that way, you know, they are able to 248 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.210 see her as she's growing up. We have such a good relationship with her 249 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:47.930 birth family that I do send pictures throughout the year and the texts to let 250 00:19:48.009 --> 00:19:51.890 them know, you know, how she's growing. So that's the kind of 251 00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:56.599 openness that we have and there is. There's different levels of openness, but 252 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:03.160 that's just one one example. Semi closed would mean during the pregnancy, the 253 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:10.990 the mother carrying the baby, would get to know the family that's going to 254 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:15.549 adopt the baby, but she would have no identifying information about that family, 255 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:22.180 so she wouldn't know their last names or address where they work, anything like 256 00:20:22.339 --> 00:20:26.539 that. There's a relationship and rapport that's being built during the pregnancy, but 257 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:33.140 it's not going to extend after the child is born. Okay, and then 258 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:38.849 the last one is closed, and that would mean that there is no relationship 259 00:20:40.329 --> 00:20:45.009 while the pregnancy is going on and none after. So no identifying informations going 260 00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:52.519 to be traded between the birth mother and the adoptive family. So just the 261 00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:00.039 adoption agency or an adoption lawyer would have those, those records field the hope 262 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.710 of that kind of breaks it down and honestly, ninety five percent of all 263 00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:11.589 adoptions today are open adoptions because years ago what they found through research was that 264 00:21:11.910 --> 00:21:18.940 children who were hidden, I should say not hidden, the information was hidden 265 00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:23.140 from them about their adoption stories or their birth parents, really did not adjust 266 00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:27.019 as well. It's not that they didn't love the family so they've been placed 267 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:32.420 into. But remember when I said the beginning of this podcast is that we're 268 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:37.009 doing something counter to what God intended. Okay, so inside of each of 269 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:42.369 us as human being, there is a loaning to want to know who our 270 00:21:42.490 --> 00:21:45.769 parents are. I mean, you can't take that from a human it's just 271 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:51.680 a natural thing within us. And so what they were finding was that a 272 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:57.559 lot of those that were adopted just were not able to handle some situations in 273 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:02.309 life as well. So they shifted. I really don't know how many years 274 00:22:02.349 --> 00:22:06.990 ago, I would say, goodness, I mean life almost ten I'd say 275 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:11.549 it's been at least fifteen or twenty years that that open adoption has really been 276 00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:18.259 the standard of adoptions in America. Yeah, have go ahead and and yes, 277 00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:21.539 I was gonna just touch on a little bit of what I had spoken 278 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.900 about just just previously before this this question, this subject, where I'd introduced 279 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:30.730 the racial component here. Like this is the big thing to focus on, 280 00:22:30.890 --> 00:22:33.369 but I think people do need to understand because at least where we're at here 281 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:37.809 in Charlotte, it's probably seventy, five, eighty percent of the women that 282 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:41.609 we see at the abortion clinics or African American. Right in your mind, 283 00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:48.039 is there a racial component to adoption? Are there? Is there a stigma 284 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:53.480 within certain communities that's associated with adoption, and how do we get past that? 285 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.839 If you know, if we can? Yeah, and are you saying 286 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:03.990 a stigma associated as of white family adopting a black child, specifically adoption in 287 00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:07.910 general. Okay, I mean at least my I'll just full disclosure my experiences 288 00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.430 being within the African American community. Like adoption is a non starter in a 289 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.259 lot of conversations. Yeah, and there's like this stigma that's attached to it, 290 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.619 and I think it has to do with that conflation of foster care and 291 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.539 adoption together, but there could be some other things. I am I wrong 292 00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:26.579 in my perception, Jessica? Yeah, no, actually, I think you're 293 00:23:26.779 --> 00:23:30.170 right in your perception of that and I've spent, you know, the last 294 00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:34.970 several years that have been working with option, adoption on these projects that we've 295 00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:38.210 been doing, trying to figure that out and I felt the Lord has given 296 00:23:38.289 --> 00:23:41.400 me some insight into that and I'm sure there's a lot more I need to 297 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.519 learn, but what I find is that, if we're going to break it 298 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:52.400 down into different community groups, what I find is in the Caucasian community group, 299 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.789 adopted is thought of as an option, like it is something that definitely 300 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:03.549 is on the forefront of someone's mind if they find themselves in a crisis pregnancy. 301 00:24:03.230 --> 00:24:07.349 With the African American community, what I've experienced and I've interviewed a lot 302 00:24:07.390 --> 00:24:11.740 of my friends about this. It is not something that's on the forefront of 303 00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:15.779 their minds. And then you're you hit on a little bit about the foster 304 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:19.299 care system, and by no means of my saying that there's you know, 305 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:23.609 just because the African American you know they've thought to the foster care system. 306 00:24:23.650 --> 00:24:30.009 But what I have found an interviewing is the stigmas that come with adoption are 307 00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:37.210 there mainly because of that foster care component and because of culture component, which 308 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.599 would mean the African American community is a very tight knit community. It's a 309 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.279 very beautiful thing. Their families are usually are very tight knit, and what 310 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.160 I have found is that community group, along with the Hispanic community group, 311 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.950 because both of them have very tight knit family groups, they look to find 312 00:24:57.269 --> 00:25:02.470 family membbers first and foremost, if they're in a crisis situation and a pregnancy 313 00:25:02.589 --> 00:25:07.420 like this, to help raise that child. And a lot of times what 314 00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:11.700 I have heard from my friends if is if that's not an option, that's 315 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:18.660 when abortion is the next option. Okay, and then obviously adoptions not truly 316 00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:22.970 on the radar as much. This is that found across the board. So 317 00:25:22.890 --> 00:25:26.890 in those community groups that, like I said, have the tight knit families 318 00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:32.890 and I do think, especially for the African American community group, this is 319 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:37.039 tied back to much more and I ever understood until I had someone sit down 320 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.279 with me and explain it. It even goes as far back as into the 321 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.359 roots of slavery, and you know that's that's a whole nother you know, 322 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.549 subject. But the way it was explained to me was that plays into their 323 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:55.190 idea of what you said, Daniel, of a white family possibly adopting a 324 00:25:55.509 --> 00:26:00.430 child. You know that is African American. And one of the things is 325 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.940 I talked with people and you know, as we train our sidewalk counselors and 326 00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:07.299 we you know, of course we want to mention adoption when it's appropriate, 327 00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:11.180 but sometimes, you know, we tell our folks that's not something we need 328 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:14.980 to be mentioned on right away. And some folks, you know, most 329 00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:19.089 of our sidewalk counselors are, are white women and we do have, praise 330 00:26:19.130 --> 00:26:22.690 Gods Africanamerican young ladies that come and volunteer. But you know, I tell 331 00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.650 her so what comes you have to understand from their perspective. Again, when 332 00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:30.569 you have eighty percent of the women going in our African American so that's who 333 00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:33.920 you're talking to when you're saying, Hey, I'll adopt your baby, I'll 334 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.039 take your baby. That might sound really gracious and kind from your ears. 335 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.559 You know you hearing that. What they're hearing is, Hey, young black 336 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.119 lady, you can't take care of your child, let let a rich white 337 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.150 person take care of your town. I mean that's that's sometimes that's what they're 338 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.230 here and we need to understand that. Yeah, that don't sound good to 339 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.950 the ears. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so off. And I hear, 340 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:57.950 I think you said it before, but that they would rather have the 341 00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:03.380 baby die then place that child for adoption. That's so frequently the response, 342 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.859 and so as you're answering this question, I would love to hear how you 343 00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:11.059 would respond to that, because we do hear that all the time. And 344 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:17.490 of course it's not just black women. White women going to the able dry 345 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:19.410 coming and that's the response that you hear. That's right. Yeah, I'd 346 00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:23.289 rather have the abortion to give my baby to some that's right. Yeah, 347 00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:30.240 yeah, and that is you know, Fernie's idwalk counselors listening at. I 348 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.920 know they've had that experience. I'm sure, like all of us have. 349 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.599 I would say, you know, what I usually say after that is I'm 350 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:42.759 trying to get that woman into a mindset that she's seeing what she's getting ready 351 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.549 to do, number one, as murder. I'll just be honest, like 352 00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:51.630 yeah, I need her to see in that moment that she is getting ready 353 00:27:51.670 --> 00:27:56.230 to serve her child to death. And and so if she says what you 354 00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.380 said, Vickie, right after you know we've mentioned, you know, this 355 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:06.500 option of adopted her, you know, helping that person really understand. Obviously 356 00:28:06.579 --> 00:28:10.339 we're doing in truth, we're doing it in love, but helping her to 357 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:15.690 understand that what she's getting ready to do is selfish, it's sinful and it 358 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:21.210 is murder in the eyes of God. And there are many times I've seen 359 00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.690 women who, because no one would tell them in love that kind of truth. 360 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.000 I've seen them stop in their tracked and really think about what I just 361 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.119 said to them, because it's shocking when you hear that come out of out 362 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.559 of someone's mouth, that what they're getting ready to do. So hoping them 363 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:44.109 understand that you would rather put that innocent baby boy or girl to death then 364 00:28:44.230 --> 00:28:48.829 give that child a chance at life with a family who's willing to step in 365 00:28:49.109 --> 00:28:56.619 and say we will take this child as our own and love this child as 366 00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:00.019 our own. That may not be the message they want to hear in that 367 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:07.059 moment, but we also understand us. I Walk Counselors and Frontline Ministry that 368 00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:12.569 this is the last stitch effort before a child is put to death. Did 369 00:29:12.569 --> 00:29:15.730 you say justice? Because one of the things in my mind that I'm thinking 370 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.569 is, okay, a woman going into an abortion clinic, she's about to 371 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:22.569 do and her mindset, and I'm not trying to, you know, broad 372 00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:26.519 brush every woman going into an abortion clinic. I'm not just trying to say 373 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.519 that I'm better than they are anything like that, but the reality is a 374 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.880 woman going into an abortion clinic is doing one of the most selfish things that 375 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.279 a woman could kill her baby through. ABOORDTION's all right, we know, 376 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.109 we understand that. And so when we're talking about adoption, we're really talking. 377 00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:44.950 We're trying to get her to go from zero to a thousand and like 378 00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:49.309 fifteen seconds, because adoption is one of the most selfless things that she can 379 00:29:49.589 --> 00:29:52.670 place her child to carry your child for now, want to place it with 380 00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:56.259 another family. Would you say that that's part of the component. You're asking 381 00:29:56.259 --> 00:29:59.819 them to come from one of the most selfish mindsets to one of the most 382 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:03.940 selfless mindsets and it's a real heart seal in that moment. Yeah, that's 383 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:08.210 exactly what we're asking them to do and it is a very, very difficult 384 00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:12.690 thing to do, because we all know that by the time a woman has 385 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:18.730 entered into driving her car and getting up the morning going to that abortion clinic, 386 00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:22.200 something in her mind has told her that's what she wants to do and 387 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:27.920 needs to do. So I will tell you the Times that it has has 388 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.319 been a message that has been taken by a woman has been amazing to see. 389 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.349 But, as you guys know, that message is not always something that 390 00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.950 is heard and it doesn't penetrate the heart. But going from selfish the selfless 391 00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:48.309 because, like you said, Daniel, placing a child into another family and 392 00:30:48.549 --> 00:30:52.940 knowing that you are not going to be there for all the first in life 393 00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:59.299 and all the milestones possibly and all these things is a very selfless thing to 394 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.980 do. It means that you are loving that child more than you love yourself. 395 00:31:03.769 --> 00:31:07.450 And you know, I've seen that played out with our daughter's birth mother 396 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:14.089 and you know, the choice of adoption does not come without wounds. We 397 00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:18.250 are thinking, we're so yeah, we're so thankful that these women choose life, 398 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.200 but we have to be sensitive to the fact that even with this choice 399 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.039 there are wounds. And so I think the end of you were you were 400 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.039 dead on it when you said, you know, going from selfish the selfless. 401 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:37.109 Great Way to put it. We pretireing up because in our in our 402 00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:41.829 Christian culture, in our American Christian culture, and rightly so, you know, 403 00:31:41.869 --> 00:31:45.390 adoption, we see it as a good and a godly thing, and 404 00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:47.819 we might be because of that because, you know, we look in the 405 00:31:47.859 --> 00:31:49.660 scripture and we see, hey, we're adopted by God, and so adoption 406 00:31:49.819 --> 00:31:52.619 is. I mean it's a wonderful thing, and it is, but we 407 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:57.299 shouldn't be blind to the fact that even with adoption there are some wounds, 408 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:02.089 there's some it's not just all place your baby with the family and then that's 409 00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:06.130 the end of it. Obviously there's stuff that goes on with all of that, 410 00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:10.930 which is why I think it's important to have a ministry like yours that 411 00:32:12.210 --> 00:32:15.119 is, you know, not just, you know, not just placing families 412 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:22.240 and or placing connecting mothers with families that want to adopt children, but even 413 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.359 just helping out with some of the language that we use and helping out with 414 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:29.200 some of the sensitivities we need to have, obviously in light of the Gospel 415 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.670 and light of God's word, if you could, because you've taught me some 416 00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:37.269 things over the years in talking about adoption and and just the verbage that we 417 00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:39.430 use. Right. So we've talked through this podcast so far. We've talked 418 00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:43.430 about, you know, placing your baby with adoption, but that's not always 419 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:45.859 how Christians talk, even in front of an abortion clink, about adoption. 420 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:49.460 Right. They use things like, you know, will take your baby, 421 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.059 give your baby up for adoption. Are Those words and important? The words 422 00:32:52.059 --> 00:32:54.779 that we use, and we're talking about adoption in that context, important. 423 00:32:55.500 --> 00:33:01.369 They are so important. You know, the average person means no harm by 424 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:06.250 what they're saying, but I will tell you, if you're dealing with a 425 00:33:06.410 --> 00:33:12.009 woman who is abortion minded, every word that you say is important because a 426 00:33:12.049 --> 00:33:15.200 lot of times we're dealing with a very short period of time when we are 427 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.920 counseling with them. I will give you the biggest verbiage that is probably used, 428 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.160 or most widely used, that is incorrect and people don't mean anything by 429 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.509 it, but it is who it's something really need to change. When someone 430 00:33:29.750 --> 00:33:34.589 says put put your baby up for adoption, yeah, I cringe. I 431 00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:37.950 absolutely cringe. As an adoptive mom, you know how I help people to 432 00:33:38.029 --> 00:33:42.339 understand that. Never to say that is I say, you know, you 433 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:46.900 put groceries up on the field, you do not put a child up for 434 00:33:46.900 --> 00:33:52.539 adoption. We are talking about a soul here. We are talking about a 435 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:58.410 living human being. And so and I'm probably extra sensitive because I've got this 436 00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:02.410 child who, you know, our families always just celebrated adoption, but I 437 00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:07.730 always wanted to be careful that she felt and always knew that God had a 438 00:34:07.809 --> 00:34:12.639 plan for her life and she's exactly where she needs to be. I never 439 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:15.960 wanted her to feel less then. Does that makes sense? I wanted to. 440 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:20.960 I wanted her to know that this is exactive I had for her life. 441 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.389 I would say like even using the word unwanted pregnancy. I know it's 442 00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:32.429 a lot of those probably have used to. Maybe saying unplanned pregnancy is probably 443 00:34:32.469 --> 00:34:37.980 a better verbiage, and that case is when you all grows up hearing unwanted 444 00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:45.820 pregnancy. That's a that's a hard thing sometimes for our minds to comprehend what 445 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:49.019 they may feel like. They felt like they were own wanted. I will 446 00:34:49.059 --> 00:34:53.250 tell you. You know in both of you know our adoption story. She 447 00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:58.530 was so, so wanted. I mean our family prayed for her. We 448 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:00.969 didn't know who she was going to be. Her pregnancy, you know, 449 00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:05.969 with her birth mom, was unplanned, that she was so wanted. And 450 00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:09.719 these children, they are, you know, unfortunately, their mothers are taking 451 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.920 them into abortion clients. There are. There are thousands and actually one point 452 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.840 two million couples in America right now are waiting for an adopted child. So 453 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.269 they are very wanted. So let me ask you just how you said don't 454 00:35:25.309 --> 00:35:29.469 say put a child up for adoption, but I'm not sure. I might 455 00:35:29.469 --> 00:35:31.949 have missed it. But what do we say? What are the better things 456 00:35:32.070 --> 00:35:37.500 to say? Okay, so what I really like to say is place a 457 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:44.380 child into an adoptive family, because when you know about how like just change 458 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:46.300 is your whole feeling, doesn't it? When you hear that like place a 459 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:51.369 child compared to put up for adopt? When I could, I just saw 460 00:35:51.449 --> 00:35:54.650 that. Rely remember the moment that our little girl was literally placed into my 461 00:35:54.809 --> 00:36:00.050 arms the first time, right, and it's such a more of a loving, 462 00:36:00.329 --> 00:36:06.079 gentle approach. And remember, our words are so important around the subject, 463 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:12.599 because this is a highly emotional subject or mom or abortion minded. HMM. 464 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.960 Yeah, so even playing in the arms of another loving family is it's 465 00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.469 maybe a way to describe it. Yeah, or placed into an adoptive family, 466 00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:24.150 as usually. You know how I say that. You know, we 467 00:36:24.230 --> 00:36:28.989 actually just did a podcast last week about words and how words matter, the 468 00:36:29.030 --> 00:36:31.980 words that we use in front of the abortion center and how we even the 469 00:36:32.019 --> 00:36:37.059 word like abortion center versus abortion meal or abortion clinic and all these words. 470 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.780 The words do matter and also we need to understand with the words that we 471 00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:46.610 use, they do carry weight and they can convey a picture and also words 472 00:36:46.889 --> 00:36:52.409 can empower. So when we're talking about placing your child, we're talking about 473 00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:54.690 we're almost empowering choice. You people talk about me. Yeah, choice as 474 00:36:54.730 --> 00:37:00.440 opposed to giving up your child. You are placing your child, taken up 475 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.920 right, exactly, choosing and placing. Because, yeah, the real pro 476 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.679 choice people are the people who are for life. Right, we're about choice. 477 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:14.159 Yeah, the abortion industry, Plan Parenthood, pro abortion people, it's 478 00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.510 all about abortion. Right. There's no choices that are available. But if 479 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:20.590 you look at I've even said it before, listen, the pro choice really 480 00:37:21.590 --> 00:37:23.309 people out here on the sidewalk, because we're offering you real choices. You 481 00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:28.230 can part your baby, you can place your child for adoption, you can 482 00:37:28.989 --> 00:37:32.300 within adoption. There's those three choices you broke down, open adoption, semi 483 00:37:32.380 --> 00:37:37.420 open adoption and a close adoption. So there's even more choices within that realm. 484 00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:39.460 And so it's just awesome to be able to my mind, the words 485 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:45.969 I hear you saying are words that empower these mothers to to choose. That's 486 00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:50.449 right. And let me ask you. Sometimes we empower them to the point 487 00:37:50.530 --> 00:37:52.610 this. I have seen, and I wonder if you have seen it, 488 00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:58.760 where maybe adoption is mentioned, because they've painted such oblique picture to me and 489 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:05.280 and said they really cannot have this child and they have been so convicted in 490 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.880 the same ways that you mentioned, through the conviction of the terrible sin of 491 00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:15.389 what they're about to do and through empowering statements, and they choose then to 492 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:22.550 parent rather than to place their child in the arms of another loving adoptive family. 493 00:38:22.869 --> 00:38:28.380 Have you seen that? Does that happen with you or? Okay, 494 00:38:28.420 --> 00:38:31.300 so are you mainly just asking if, like, if a woman has been 495 00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:37.420 presented with the adoption option and then she kind of walks on that path for 496 00:38:37.539 --> 00:38:39.739 wound, then she choose as to parent? Is that what you're asking? 497 00:38:39.820 --> 00:38:43.690 Have I seen some now sometimes walking down that path for a while? We 498 00:38:43.849 --> 00:38:45.849 did just have someone, we interviewed someone by the name of Ebony that we 499 00:38:45.929 --> 00:38:50.449 did a podcast, who was going to place your children, her child for 500 00:38:50.530 --> 00:38:55.079 adoption and then she she just came through, through the Gospel and through falling 501 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:59.400 in love with the baby she was carrying, she decided to parent the child 502 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.360 instead. But sometimes immediately they'll be saying, I'm going to kill this baby. 503 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.239 Then they'll be saying, oh, they'll hear about adoption, but then 504 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:12.550 they'll be so convicted by by what we're saying, the truth of the Gospel, 505 00:39:12.630 --> 00:39:16.190 whatever, they and their hearts will go then to parenting and I honestly 506 00:39:16.230 --> 00:39:21.389 I've seen that more in my experience. That's what I see. They'll go 507 00:39:21.550 --> 00:39:27.860 from abortion to parenting more readily than from abortion to adoption. So I guess 508 00:39:27.860 --> 00:39:30.659 I'm asking, are you've seen something different, or is that what you see? 509 00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:37.380 I seek the same thing that you're seeing, but I probably obviously see 510 00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:43.730 the other component of going into adoption, because now our ministry is nationwide, 511 00:39:43.769 --> 00:39:47.010 so I get calls from all over. But yes, I actually worked with 512 00:39:47.090 --> 00:39:51.769 Evany and yeah, it was that's right, that's right. Yeah, that 513 00:39:51.969 --> 00:39:57.199 wasn't it was amazing, amazing situation and she came through that wonderfully and that's 514 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.480 a great example of I would say a majority of the time what we do 515 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.519 see is someone who's in that crisis mode, not seeing a way out, 516 00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.789 feeling like they can't parent, I'm going to go forward this abortion that, 517 00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:15.909 and I talked extensively with her about adoption and that was when I saw the 518 00:40:16.070 --> 00:40:22.260 soft putting occur and I felt in my heart that she was going to probably 519 00:40:22.300 --> 00:40:27.500 end up parenting that child. But I knew that the Holy Spirit was telling 520 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:30.139 me to give her that option of adoption. It was the right timing and 521 00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:35.260 through that, I think, after we sip through that, you know many, 522 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:38.090 many times, she was able to see herself in a position where she 523 00:40:38.409 --> 00:40:43.809 could parent that filed and that's what I see to Vicky. But because I 524 00:40:43.969 --> 00:40:46.929 do deal with a lot of situations for people across the nation, will call 525 00:40:47.170 --> 00:40:52.559 when when a woman has probably either tried to go to an abortion clinic already 526 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:58.760 as an appointment scheduled fairly soon, or they're in a situation where they're they're 527 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:02.239 calling on behalf of their daughter or granddaughter. I would say I'm in a 528 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:07.949 unique situation because I'm able to talk directly to them about adoption from the get 529 00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:10.550 go because they know who they're calling. But if I was on the sidewalk 530 00:41:10.670 --> 00:41:17.070 situation what you just said is much more likely to occur. Yeah, so 531 00:41:17.309 --> 00:41:21.579 I hope for people listening, we hadn't, you know, we haven't tried 532 00:41:21.699 --> 00:41:27.059 to paint like this bleak picture that adoption stories never happened and that, you 533 00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:31.300 know, obviously don't want to discourage anyone from offering adoption. I just think 534 00:41:31.460 --> 00:41:37.130 it helps people to understand an appropriate time and that adoption, even though it's 535 00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:42.010 this wonderful thing, it's not always appropriate to share about. Are there any 536 00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:45.090 stories that you have, just so we can encourage people who are listening, 537 00:41:45.849 --> 00:41:50.440 of MOMS who've decided to place their children? Obviously, you guys story to 538 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.840 but you've walked with Mother's, you've walked with parents that want to adopt. 539 00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:59.679 Their stories that you can share. They can encourage people that adoptions actually do 540 00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:04.429 take place in this in this realm of ministry. Yeah, we well, 541 00:42:04.469 --> 00:42:08.429 I'll give you a personal an example of that. So I would say I'm 542 00:42:08.469 --> 00:42:14.269 I goingness. Probably one of the first few years I was doing sidewalk ministry, 543 00:42:14.349 --> 00:42:16.539 I was out in front of the abortion clinic. I was on the 544 00:42:17.019 --> 00:42:22.579 sound system, on the microphone, and I saw a young woman going into 545 00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:28.420 the clinic and, you know, just started really giving the Gospel over that 546 00:42:28.659 --> 00:42:35.010 sound system. She was inside for maybe two or three minutes and when she 547 00:42:35.170 --> 00:42:37.369 came out I just expected her to go straight to her car, maybe get 548 00:42:37.449 --> 00:42:39.969 something out of her car, put something in, I'm not sure. And 549 00:42:40.090 --> 00:42:45.760 do you know, she walks straight over to me on that microphone, which 550 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.480 is a pretty long walk. I mean it's not a short walk. You 551 00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.360 know they've gone. They got some time to change her mind. What they 552 00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.920 want to talk to you or not sure. And we talked for a few 553 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.829 mis she said I heard what you were saying on the microphone and I remember 554 00:42:58.869 --> 00:43:01.110 I was I was saying I was getting the Gospel, but I was often 555 00:43:01.150 --> 00:43:07.469 talking about the different options and so I mean what's associated with these of those 556 00:43:07.550 --> 00:43:10.150 options? And she said, I heard what you're saying I want to know 557 00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:15.739 more about you, know what you can offer, and I felt very lad 558 00:43:16.059 --> 00:43:21.579 to then talk to her about adoption the as she wanted to know what the 559 00:43:21.619 --> 00:43:27.099 options were. That she was five weeks pregnant, so very, very early. 560 00:43:27.809 --> 00:43:30.610 I walked with her throughout her entire pregnancy. She ended up placing that 561 00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:37.329 child for adoption and that was due to that ten minutes on the sidewalk. 562 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:43.559 He had really, you know, heard what adoption was, didn't understand what 563 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.679 her options were, but knew that she could not parents. So I think 564 00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:52.039 that's a great example of kind of getting that trust of the woman, seeing 565 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.190 where their thought processes are and then giving them the true options. That, 566 00:43:57.309 --> 00:44:00.710 honor God, there's only two, you know. Yeah, I disagree with 567 00:44:00.989 --> 00:44:06.510 ministries that I give a woman three options. That makes me very, very 568 00:44:07.670 --> 00:44:13.860 only offer them abortion as an option, adoption, imparent yeah right, yeah, 569 00:44:14.260 --> 00:44:16.260 I really disagree with that. So when I'm when I'm counseling with a 570 00:44:16.300 --> 00:44:20.780 woman on the sidewalk or in the RV, I make it very clear that 571 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:23.690 there are only two options, honor had, and I always tell them that 572 00:44:23.849 --> 00:44:28.449 that on our God and and I never talk about abortion from that point board. 573 00:44:28.489 --> 00:44:31.329 Always let them know that it's either parenting or adoption. That may be 574 00:44:32.289 --> 00:44:37.840 some of the reason why I find that the women I've worked with have gone 575 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:43.719 on to adopt. More is one. I think the Lord gave that testimony 576 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.599 to our family. And then secondly is when you start talking like that that 577 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.119 there's only two options it you know, it takes that other option off the 578 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.750 table, because what I'm really see the Lord doing because obviously you know, 579 00:44:57.070 --> 00:45:00.949 you guys know, and I know the Lord's heart was for that mother to 580 00:45:00.070 --> 00:45:06.269 mother that child. Okay, and so that's the first option that we want 581 00:45:06.309 --> 00:45:08.820 to always talk to them about. But the other option, if it's just 582 00:45:09.380 --> 00:45:14.500 not feasible for her to parent, the only other option, in my eyes, 583 00:45:14.739 --> 00:45:17.460 and I think in the Lord's eyes, is a option. So I'm 584 00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:23.130 never mentioning abortion from that point forward, other than to tell them if you 585 00:45:23.250 --> 00:45:28.369 go forward with this, you know this is what you can expect. Yeah, 586 00:45:28.849 --> 00:45:31.409 yeah, of course, never validating. I mean, in reality, 587 00:45:32.170 --> 00:45:36.079 is abortion an option for them? Surely they can go in there, they 588 00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:37.880 can kill their child, but we don't validate that as an option, just 589 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.079 like, you know, a mother of a three year old, is it 590 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.039 an option for her to take that three year old child and throw that child 591 00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:46.920 off a bridge. She could choose to do that, but there's going to 592 00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.829 be consequences and we would never validate that as an option. And that's what 593 00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.710 people you know, I understand some well meeting people within pregnancy centers and whatever, 594 00:45:55.789 --> 00:46:00.949 want to seem neutral, but we have to understand that there is no 595 00:46:00.110 --> 00:46:04.070 neutral ground. We're dealing with, dealing children in the womb right like. 596 00:46:04.190 --> 00:46:07.659 We've got to take a stand and we've gone to speak what God's word says, 597 00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:09.420 and when we do that, God honors that. Like you're, like 598 00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:13.739 you're talking about. I mean, I've actually seen Jessica, because you volunteered 599 00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:17.059 here on the sidewalks with us in Charlotte for years and I've seen you. 600 00:46:17.460 --> 00:46:22.929 I've seen little block life, your daughter who you guys adopted, and I've 601 00:46:22.969 --> 00:46:27.889 seen you share her story with abortion minded women on the sidewalk or even car 602 00:46:28.090 --> 00:46:31.369 side, and I've seen God just use her, you know, not not 603 00:46:31.530 --> 00:46:36.360 using her as a pawn or anything like that, but uses or sweet little 604 00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.519 face, Ye, to soften hearts. Yeah, I will tell you one 605 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.320 story, because I know we got a wrap up, but just because the 606 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.039 story I remember about you and Blithe was being on the sidewalk and a one 607 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:52.269 of the pro socalled pro choice people with his sign came over to really protest 608 00:46:52.429 --> 00:46:55.269 what you were doing. You were talking car side with someone, I think, 609 00:46:55.429 --> 00:47:00.269 and you finished with that woman and turned to him with that sweet blythe 610 00:47:00.429 --> 00:47:05.179 next to you, and told him blythe story. And that man, that's 611 00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:08.300 the only time I have ever seen this happen. He took his sign, 612 00:47:08.460 --> 00:47:12.380 he what he didn't say a word. His eyes teared up. He took 613 00:47:12.460 --> 00:47:15.809 his sign, he put the sign in the car and drove away and I 614 00:47:15.929 --> 00:47:20.010 never saw him again. I remember that day. I remember and I will 615 00:47:20.090 --> 00:47:23.090 tell you, guys, when you know she has been with me on the 616 00:47:23.170 --> 00:47:29.489 sidewalks. Her testimony is so powerful. I feel like God does use those 617 00:47:29.769 --> 00:47:36.800 that have been spared from such an atrocity as abortion speak louder than then we 618 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.079 could ever dream of speaking. Sometimes I have seen that when we've been able 619 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:45.949 to stop people car side before they enter into the parking lot of the abortion 620 00:47:45.070 --> 00:47:50.989 clinic. That is such a powerful test stimony of being able to see a 621 00:47:51.110 --> 00:47:55.269 child that was spared from a murder in a building just like the one that 622 00:47:55.309 --> 00:48:00.260 they're getting ready to enter into. There's there's a breaking that happens. I've 623 00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:06.420 seen some of the biggest men in the world, the toughest men, literally 624 00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:10.659 break down when life has shown them the fetal models and hold them part of 625 00:48:10.780 --> 00:48:15.289 her testimony with me there with her, of course. Yeah, and it's 626 00:48:15.329 --> 00:48:20.570 unbelievable how how God can reach someone by a child who's been spared from that, 627 00:48:20.809 --> 00:48:23.610 when they get, when they catch the glimpse of what their child will 628 00:48:23.650 --> 00:48:27.960 be in just a few years. Yeah, I remember you saying to him, 629 00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.480 can you look at this space, and we're all looking at precious supplies 630 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.719 face, and you say, can you look at this face and tell her 631 00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.920 she should never have lived? Right? And it's that really is a question. 632 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:45.389 I asked the quote unquote pro choicers a lot, as well as the 633 00:48:45.469 --> 00:48:50.349 ones that are coming to the clinic to abort their children, because I've never 634 00:48:50.469 --> 00:48:54.739 had one person take me up on that right and I've I've come up against 635 00:48:54.739 --> 00:49:01.500 probably some of the toughest, most wicked pro choice protesters, whatever you want 636 00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:06.019 to call them, in the world, and they cannot do it. You 637 00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:13.929 just can't. And everybody inherently knows that every little boy and girl deserves life, 638 00:49:14.889 --> 00:49:19.010 and so so I just feel like God is moving and we are so 639 00:49:19.170 --> 00:49:23.170 thankful for what you guys are doing cities for life and training others. Hopefully, 640 00:49:23.170 --> 00:49:28.719 those that are listening to this podcast will have a fire letting them to 641 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:34.159 get out on the sidewalks across this nation and really be the hands and feet 642 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:38.230 of Jesus and we you know, anytime you're telling your neighbor that what they're 643 00:49:38.230 --> 00:49:43.030 getting ready to do is sin, and in this case it's murder, and 644 00:49:43.269 --> 00:49:46.269 you're doing that in love. That is that is the deepest love that you 645 00:49:46.349 --> 00:49:49.909 can give her someone is that they not go down, you know, that 646 00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:53.980 path of destruction. Yeah, a man will say it, Jessica. If 647 00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:57.820 folks that are listening to this podcast want to get in touch with you, 648 00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.260 how do they get in touch you? What's the best way to connect with 649 00:50:00.340 --> 00:50:04.300 with you and with option adoption? Sure, well, we have a website. 650 00:50:04.460 --> 00:50:10.530 It's option adoptioncom and then we are on facebook as well and you can 651 00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:17.090 find us with under option adoption and can message us if there's, you know, 652 00:50:17.289 --> 00:50:21.679 any type of questions that they have. We work mainly, again, 653 00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:24.840 with the abortion minded men and women and we get a lot of questions from 654 00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:30.239 families. If we have you know children that need to be placed into adoptive 655 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.909 families. That's not a component of our mistry, but we can direct them 656 00:50:36.070 --> 00:50:42.429 to wonderful Christian adoption agencies and Christian adoption lawyers to kind of help them on 657 00:50:42.550 --> 00:50:45.309 that journey. That's the route that God's calling their family to. Yeah, 658 00:50:45.590 --> 00:50:49.230 that's good. I appreciate that. So, yeah, I guess connect with 659 00:50:49.309 --> 00:50:55.099 Jessica Option adoptioncom. But Yeah, Jessica, we appreciate your time, appreciate 660 00:50:55.139 --> 00:51:00.099 you sharing your testimony, appreciate your heart. I know that just having you 661 00:51:00.460 --> 00:51:02.059 as a part of our ministry, as you were here in Charlotte's, just 662 00:51:02.139 --> 00:51:06.769 such a blessing, as blessing seeing what you guys are doing and just hearing 663 00:51:07.289 --> 00:51:09.610 what got us doing through you guys. And it's when encourage those who are 664 00:51:09.690 --> 00:51:14.489 listening to go to our website, because Jessica talked a little bit about sidewalk 665 00:51:14.530 --> 00:51:17.409 counseling and Nashally, and so we started the sidewalks for life websites. I 666 00:51:17.489 --> 00:51:22.199 walks, the number four LIFECOM and people can go there and get equipped to 667 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:24.400 do sidewalk counseling, get trained up to be a sidewalk counsel in your area 668 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.880 and we hope that's a blessing you. Hope this podcast was blessing you. 669 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:37.789 Guys. Please share it and until next time, God, bless me for 670 00:51:37.030 --> 00:51:50.179 love. Give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me 671 00:51:50.380 --> 00:51:58.179 my life. No, Sing's too precious. And some you