Adoption and Frontline Prolife Ministry, How Do These Two Ministries Work Together

0:00 I am yours. I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In this episode we have a special guest, Jessica Molin, with option adoption. She talks about some of the dus and don'ts of mentioning adoption to an abortion minded mother and shares her family's adoption testimony. This is a skype interview and the sound quality may be slightly lacking, but we still think it'll be a blessing. Stay tuned. I felt show passis touch your use. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. You appreciate you guys who listen. We Hook this podcast will be a blessing and encouragement to you guys.

0:41 We have today with this Jessica Molan. Say Hey, Jessica. Hey there, it's good to have you just Jessica is with option adoption. She started this Ministry of some time ago. She'll share a little bit of her story in that. But reason why I felt like we needed to have this podcast, I mean Vickie talked about having this podcast, is we are getting a lot of questions. I mean we always have, but now even more so, getting a lot of questions of people asking don't you guys offer adoption at the abortion center? I would love to adopt a baby. Can You? Can you connect you with a mom at the abortion center that would want to let us adopt her baby? So we want to talk about some of those questions and we thought Jessica would be the perfect person to answer some of those questions talk about some of that, because she has a perspective of being involved in adoption and helping people place their children for adoption and helping people can nect with MOMS who want to adopt, but also even has an adoption story in her past and with her family and stall some story and she's been on the sidewalk to sky kind. She has the best of all the world's that we're discussion. Yep, so, so, Jessica. That's why we wanted to bring you on. So if you could just to give the folks a little bit of context understanding who you are, cheer, cheer, who you are, what the ministry does and your story personally of your little girl, Blythe and how the Lord orchestrated all of that. Okay, would love to.

2:02 Well, let's see, my husband and I and our family really started with the sidewalk ministry. I would say, it's been close to seven or eight years ago now, and we really didn't know a whole lot about sidewalk ministry. was just kind of where the Lord planted us. And then once we had been on the sidewalk for about a year, we started to really ask more questions about how many women choose life and place for adoption versus going forward with an abortion. And the reason we were asking that question was because we had just gone through an adoption of our little girl life, and we didn't really know her whole story when we first adopted her, but as started to unfold, her birth mother shared more and more about the situation while she was pregnant with life, and so that really lit to fire on us to be on the sidewalk even more and then to ask those questions that I mentioned before, which was how many women really choose adoption over abortion? And what we started to find out was a really grim statistic, which was less than two percent of women choose adoption over death. And that just broke my heart because, you know, for my husband and I we were sitting here with this living example of what choosing life looks like. But not just that, but also the added layer of placing that child into an adoptive family. And

3:38 so what we did was we went on a journey and we essentially ask the Lord to guide us to a ministry that was already in place here in the US. That was frontline ministry that helped people who were abortion determined or abortion minded the adoption as a choice. And I'll be honest, I searched high and low. I could not find anybody that was doing it frontline. Now, there were lots of adoption agencies and different resources like that, but the front line is really where our hearts are and that by sidewalk ministry is yeah, I'm very passionate about it. So I was like, Oh my goodness, Lord, are you calling us to start a ministry? Because I'll just be honest with you, my mindset about ministries are there are a lot of them and I'm not so sure we need so many of them. So I was very hesitant that the Lord was calling us to that and we really took a long time to pray about it. We had just decided to start homeschooling our son, who was our oldest, and we had just adopted life not too long before that. So I was thinking, Wow, this is a big rolling here, a Lord that you're asking us to do, but with support of those around us and, you know, cities for life being with them a leading up to that there was lots of support around kind of starting a branch of a ministry that would help with the adoption component. So that's kind of, in a nutshell, how my husband and I came to start

5:10 up to adoption, and what fuels our passion for that is the fact that we adopted our daughter and she was spared from abortion. Just so took him talk a little bit about what exactly option adoption does, just in a brief summary or so. Option adoption is a little different than other adoption ministries because of that one component that I was just mentioning, that frontline component. What we like to do is train frontline ministries like sidewalk monistries like these for life. Sometimes it's been with pregnancy resource centers. It's also been with lay people or church leaders, and what we like to do from an educational side is help people understand on what adoption is so they can talk about adoption with women and men who are abortion minded. The other side of the ministry is directly working with those abortion minded men and women, and that has just been an amazing experience because I think what happens a lot of times is a woman who's abortion minded maybe very fearful of directly talking to an agency and adoption agency.

6:28 So option, adoption is like a neutral ground for her. She's not feeling as if she has to go ahead and pull the trigger on that right away. We are a resource that can help her understand what adoption is, what her choices are and how it's different than, let's say, foster care, because that's a big myth that you know. It's the same as foster care, and so that's kind of our two big things that we do. So one is educational for those that want to walk alongside of women and men that are abortion minded, and the other side is directly working with a woman or, you know, a man that is abortion deferment. Okay, Great.

7:12 So you said that two percent. was that two percent women that actually consider adoption? There? Well, the two percent is the number of women who actually choose life and then go forward with adoption. Okay, right, right. So okay, then low number. M So it is a really low number and that has definitely been our experience. In fact, I've been out there what six and a half years, something like that now, and I have never had a woman choose adoption and in fact, if I mention adoption, it's often a showstopper. They they no longer want to talk to me just because had something that you have faced. And can you address that?

7:55 Why that happens? And maybe you said you train people so that that doesn't happen, and it would it would be great to hear some of the things that might guide us out there. Yeah, I'll just jump in here real quick before you answer that, Jessica, and just you know, our experience is, again, like a started talking in the Intro, was that we get people always asking us aside wont counselors, don't you guys off all for adoption? Yeah, and then even some people with the mentality that like we need to stand out in front of the abortion clinic can just say I'll adopt your baby. Yeah, your baby right, and there are people that, I think you know, with good intentions, think that that's the best way to offer adoption of that context. Yeah, but not always is an option.

8:37 They first thing. I mean very, very often it's not the first thing we need to say right, I'm in total agreement. Yeah, I totally agree with what you just said. I would I would say my experience lines up with exactly what both of you just mentioned. From my years of being on the sidewalk, I will tell you that I don't think it's something that we should lead with, and there's a big reason. Obviously, a woman WHO's chosen to walk into an abortion clinic has many things going on at that time and a lot of times, like Vicky you said, it being a show stopper is because that's a very emotional topic and many times, you know, you will hear from a woman who is anchored by someone saying that, you know, if I cannot raise this baby, nobody's going to raise this baby. And so that's why it's probably not the best thing to lead with. What I have found is after talking with someone about the reasons that to the clinic situation is being able to go through some scriptures with them, with the Gospel, a lots of heart is softened and honestly, I depend totally on the Holy Spirit as to when I am to talk about adoption or not. There are many times that it does not come up at all for me when I'm with a woman on the sidewalk, but there a are plenty of times that it does and our ministry has had just amazing results with women placing for adoption. So it's good at least build some kind of repoor with

10:11 an abortion ated woman and build a relationship with her before you introduce the subject of adoption. Absolutely, I mean I think if we if we were to turn it and think about what that woman may be feeling in that moment, you know, if that would be the very first thing we lead with, it's a could be a big turn off. I'm not saying that happens in every case, but I would say a majority of the cases. If we can build the upport first and that a trust, and build it as quickly as we can, then it's almost as if we have earned the ability to go into a much deeper subject. That I'll just be honest. There is a lot of emotion surround around the subject of adoption. Just is and you know what I'll say about that is, if we think of it from a biblical standpoint and a spiritual standpoint, you know, God created the mother that's carrying that child to be that child's mother and the father of that child to be that child's father. And so adoption at its core is counter to what the Lord intended for the Child. Okay, now I say that and those are listening, you know some that are adoptive parents, they may be saying, why is she saying that? Well, because at it the truth.

11:31 Now and and so when we're doing something counter to what it is that God intended, we know that there's going to be opposition to that and it's actually in the spirit realm right. So we have to we have to know what we're going into. So that's why I really caution those that are talking to someone who's abortion minded not let adoption be the very first thing, but kind of kind of build that rapport in that trust and then offered as an option. It definitely needs to be offered. I mean I am a big advocate of it being offered, even if, even if right a way, you know that the woman has said. You know what, before I do that, I would parent. It's still needs to be offered because what we found when we started the ministry it was people are so uncomfortable around the subject of adoption that they sometimes don't even mention it. And so I'm a huge advocate of, you know, training people how to mention it and how to build that rapport first, before we do just cut can eat. Can you give us some specifics about what situations or statements you hear from the abortion minded moms that trigger you into feeling this is the time to mention adoption? A lot of times, you know well, as you both know, every situation is so, so different, and I'm really trying to listen to the heart of that woman. Tell me that there's something that's going to keep her from being

13:05 a parent. Okay, now, obviously, if they're in the situation, they're coming to an abortion clinic. They don't want to parent. That's just the truth. They don't want to parent, they're trying to in that process. And so once built that rapport with her and that trust and I've broken down and maybe she's telling me you know what, like Elf for instance, and two weeks ago I had a woman that was coming to an abortion clinic stop her in the per working long before she went in and she had lost her jug due to the COVID nineteen crisis. And so for her I was able to find out that it was a financial reason. Okay, so, once I've isolated that reason. What I like to do is kind of talk to them in more depth about that and find out, you know, where they stand on seeing can they see past today? A lot of times when someone's in a crisis mode like that, it just can't see past today, and and then reminding them that the choice of abortion is forever, whereas the circumstances can change with the help of, you know, our ministry or ministries like ours. And then if she still is saying, you know, I just cannot parent, here's the reasons why. That's when I will usually go in with the option of a option for her and kind of just see where she is about her knowledge of adoption. Every woman comes to the situation print.

14:37 I have many women who have been in the foster care system, so they have the idea of the adoption is foster care, and so we have to learn to just spel that myth. That is number one. Appreciate you mentioned Jessica, and one of the things that I think you know us, I would say white Christians especially don't really understand, is that we deal with a lot of African American young ladies at the abortion clinic and the statistics are a lot of those women have either been in the foster care system or know people that have been, and when we say adoption, they hear foster care, and so talk a little bit about, if you can, how we how we dispel that that lie. That's not they're not the same, even though foster care is not a bad thing. No one's saying that it is.

15:26 They're just some people that have some bad experiences. Have had some bad experiences in the foster care system. But how do we? How do we, and again I don't know if it's not just African American women, but the statistics are that, you know, in the fall care system there's a lot of African American right, ladies that grow up in that. Yeah, young men that grow up in that. How do we dispel those myths and how do we separate those two things? Foster Care in adoption? These two are not the same in a way that she can hear that. I think the the biggest thing that I do when I'm speaking to a woman and I find out that that's on her radar, it's like a red flag for her. She's saying foster care. The first thing that I do is make sure she understands the difference, and what I lead with is that adoption is making a plan for her baby before that baby's birth and that mother choosing a family for that child. So if you're able to put it like that to someone, I think it helps ease all those fears that like maybe if she was in the foster care system herself. We all know, unfortunately, many of the children that come through foster care do not remain with one family and depending on the age that you start in foster care, you can be bounced between eight to ten family sometimes it's the average you're entering, you know, around zero to two years old. So that's really the main thing because remember,

16:59 obviously we're talking about it from a sidewalk counselor perspective. We may not have a whole lot of time, so we've got to know, we got to be armed and prepared for the information. That is the number one thing I would say to always lead with, because that kind of that helps ease those anxious thoughts that they're having about adoption. And then I usually get more questions from them after that. Sometimes they still shut me down about adoption, but there are many times where they ask more questions because when a woman feels like she has the power to choose the family for her child and she's part of that and it can be done while she's still pregnant, that's very free for her and she doesn't feel as if a child's going to be taken from her and then placed into a system that she might not be part of. Along those same lines, I've talked with the very few times I have brought adoption up at at all, it is often perceived as only closed adoption and I really knew very little about open versus closed adoption until I met you, frankly.

18:06 So could you talk about that, because I think that's helpful too. I knows when I have spoken about adoption, when I've described an open adoption, the women do seem more open to the idea. Yes, I find the same thing. So I always love for everybody to know as much as they can before counseling with, you know, women in these situations. And so the best way for us to break it down is that there are three types of adoptions. There is full open and then there's semi closed and closed. Okay, so I'll break that down. So the open is exactly what it what it sounds like. So the the mother and possibly the birth thought there as well have an open relationship with that child as that child is growing up. Now the adoptive family, along with the birth mother and possibly the birth fathers around that how much open this there is in their comfort levels, and that's all done as part of that adoption plan that I was talking about.

19:14 Now give you an example of that, because to help your listeners. So in our case we have it set up with my first mother that once a year, sometime time around her birthday, that her birth mother and the grandparents and even aunts and uncle's can come and visit. We usually spend an entire day with them and that way, you know, they are able to see her as she's growing up. We have such a good relationship with her birth family that I do send pictures throughout the year and the texts to let them know, you know, how she's growing. So that's the kind of openness that we have and there is. There's different levels of openness, but that's just one one example. Semi closed would mean during the pregnancy, the the mother carrying the baby, would get to know the family that's going to adopt the baby, but she would have no identifying information about that family, so she wouldn't know their last names or address where they work, anything like that. There's a relationship and rapport that's being built during the pregnancy, but it's not going to extend after the child is born. Okay, and then the last one is closed, and that would mean that there is no relationship while the pregnancy is going on and none after. So no identifying informations going

20:45 to be traded between the birth mother and the adoptive family. So just the adoption agency or an adoption lawyer would have those, those records field the hope of that kind of breaks it down and honestly, ninety five percent of all adoptions today are open adoptions because years ago what they found through research was that children who were hidden, I should say not hidden, the information was hidden from them about their adoption stories or their birth parents, really did not adjust as well. It's not that they didn't love the family so they've been placed into. But remember when I said the beginning of this podcast is that we're doing something counter to what God intended. Okay, so inside of each of us as human being, there is a loaning to want to know who our parents are. I mean, you can't take that from a human it's just a natural thing within us. And so what they were finding was that a lot of those that were adopted just were not able to handle some situations in life as well. So they shifted. I really don't know how many years ago, I would say, goodness, I mean life almost ten I'd say it's been at least fifteen or twenty years that that open adoption has really been the standard of adoptions in America. Yeah, have go ahead and and yes,

22:18 I was gonna just touch on a little bit of what I had spoken about just just previously before this this question, this subject, where I'd introduced the racial component here. Like this is the big thing to focus on, but I think people do need to understand because at least where we're at here in Charlotte, it's probably seventy, five, eighty percent of the women that we see at the abortion clinics or African American. Right in your mind, is there a racial component to adoption? Are there? Is there a stigma within certain communities that's associated with adoption, and how do we get past that? If you know, if we can? Yeah, and are you saying a stigma associated as of white family adopting a black child, specifically adoption in general. Okay, I mean at least my I'll just full disclosure my experiences being within the African American community. Like adoption is a non starter in a lot of conversations. Yeah, and there's like this stigma that's attached to it, and I think it has to do with that conflation of foster care and adoption together, but there could be some other things. I am I wrong in my perception, Jessica? Yeah, no, actually, I think you're right in your perception of that and I've spent, you know, the last several years that have been working with option, adoption on these projects that we've been doing, trying to figure that out and I felt the Lord has given me some insight into that and I'm sure there's a lot more I need to learn, but what I find is that, if we're going to break it down into different community groups, what I find is in the Caucasian community group,

23:52 adopted is thought of as an option, like it is something that definitely is on the forefront of someone's mind if they find themselves in a crisis pregnancy. With the African American community, what I've experienced and I've interviewed a lot of my friends about this. It is not something that's on the forefront of their minds. And then you're you hit on a little bit about the foster care system, and by no means of my saying that there's you know, just because the African American you know they've thought to the foster care system. But what I have found an interviewing is the stigmas that come with adoption are there mainly because of that foster care component and because of culture component, which would mean the African American community is a very tight knit community. It's a very beautiful thing. Their families are usually are very tight knit, and what I have found is that community group, along with the Hispanic community group, because both of them have very tight knit family groups, they look to find family membbers first and foremost, if they're in a crisis situation and a pregnancy like this, to help raise that child. And a lot of times what I have heard from my friends if is if that's not an option, that's when abortion is the next option. Okay, and then obviously adoptions not truly on the radar as much. This is that found across the board. So

25:22 in those community groups that, like I said, have the tight knit families and I do think, especially for the African American community group, this is tied back to much more and I ever understood until I had someone sit down with me and explain it. It even goes as far back as into the roots of slavery, and you know that's that's a whole nother you know, subject. But the way it was explained to me was that plays into their idea of what you said, Daniel, of a white family possibly adopting a child. You know that is African American. And one of the things is I talked with people and you know, as we train our sidewalk counselors and we you know, of course we want to mention adoption when it's appropriate, but sometimes, you know, we tell our folks that's not something we need to be mentioned on right away. And some folks, you know, most of our sidewalk counselors are, are white women and we do have, praise Gods Africanamerican young ladies that come and volunteer. But you know, I tell her so what comes you have to understand from their perspective. Again, when you have eighty percent of the women going in our African American so that's who you're talking to when you're saying, Hey, I'll adopt your baby, I'll take your baby. That might sound really gracious and kind from your ears.

26:38 You know you hearing that. What they're hearing is, Hey, young black lady, you can't take care of your child, let let a rich white person take care of your town. I mean that's that's sometimes that's what they're here and we need to understand that. Yeah, that don't sound good to the ears. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so off. And I hear, I think you said it before, but that they would rather have the baby die then place that child for adoption. That's so frequently the response, and so as you're answering this question, I would love to hear how you would respond to that, because we do hear that all the time. And of course it's not just black women. White women going to the able dry coming and that's the response that you hear. That's right. Yeah, I'd rather have the abortion to give my baby to some that's right. Yeah, yeah, and that is you know, Fernie's idwalk counselors listening at. I know they've had that experience. I'm sure, like all of us have.

27:33 I would say, you know, what I usually say after that is I'm trying to get that woman into a mindset that she's seeing what she's getting ready to do, number one, as murder. I'll just be honest, like yeah, I need her to see in that moment that she is getting ready to serve her child to death. And and so if she says what you said, Vickie, right after you know we've mentioned, you know, this option of adopted her, you know, helping that person really understand. Obviously we're doing in truth, we're doing it in love, but helping her to understand that what she's getting ready to do is selfish, it's sinful and it is murder in the eyes of God. And there are many times I've seen women who, because no one would tell them in love that kind of truth.

28:26 I've seen them stop in their tracked and really think about what I just said to them, because it's shocking when you hear that come out of out of someone's mouth, that what they're getting ready to do. So hoping them understand that you would rather put that innocent baby boy or girl to death then give that child a chance at life with a family who's willing to step in and say we will take this child as our own and love this child as our own. That may not be the message they want to hear in that moment, but we also understand us. I Walk Counselors and Frontline Ministry that this is the last stitch effort before a child is put to death. Did you say justice? Because one of the things in my mind that I'm thinking is, okay, a woman going into an abortion clinic, she's about to do and her mindset, and I'm not trying to, you know, broad brush every woman going into an abortion clinic. I'm not just trying to say that I'm better than they are anything like that, but the reality is a woman going into an abortion clinic is doing one of the most selfish things that a woman could kill her baby through. ABOORDTION's all right, we know, we understand that. And so when we're talking about adoption, we're really talking.

29:41 We're trying to get her to go from zero to a thousand and like fifteen seconds, because adoption is one of the most selfless things that she can place her child to carry your child for now, want to place it with another family. Would you say that that's part of the component. You're asking them to come from one of the most selfish mindsets to one of the most selfless mindsets and it's a real heart seal in that moment. Yeah, that's exactly what we're asking them to do and it is a very, very difficult thing to do, because we all know that by the time a woman has entered into driving her car and getting up the morning going to that abortion clinic, something in her mind has told her that's what she wants to do and needs to do. So I will tell you the Times that it has has been a message that has been taken by a woman has been amazing to see.

30:33 But, as you guys know, that message is not always something that is heard and it doesn't penetrate the heart. But going from selfish the selfless because, like you said, Daniel, placing a child into another family and knowing that you are not going to be there for all the first in life and all the milestones possibly and all these things is a very selfless thing to do. It means that you are loving that child more than you love yourself. And you know, I've seen that played out with our daughter's birth mother and you know, the choice of adoption does not come without wounds. We are thinking, we're so yeah, we're so thankful that these women choose life, but we have to be sensitive to the fact that even with this choice there are wounds. And so I think the end of you were you were dead on it when you said, you know, going from selfish the selfless.

31:32 Great Way to put it. We pretireing up because in our in our Christian culture, in our American Christian culture, and rightly so, you know, adoption, we see it as a good and a godly thing, and we might be because of that because, you know, we look in the scripture and we see, hey, we're adopted by God, and so adoption is. I mean it's a wonderful thing, and it is, but we shouldn't be blind to the fact that even with adoption there are some wounds, there's some it's not just all place your baby with the family and then that's the end of it. Obviously there's stuff that goes on with all of that, which is why I think it's important to have a ministry like yours that is, you know, not just, you know, not just placing families and or placing connecting mothers with families that want to adopt children, but even just helping out with some of the language that we use and helping out with some of the sensitivities we need to have, obviously in light of the Gospel and light of God's word, if you could, because you've taught me some things over the years in talking about adoption and and just the verbage that we use. Right. So we've talked through this podcast so far. We've talked about, you know, placing your baby with adoption, but that's not always how Christians talk, even in front of an abortion clink, about adoption.

32:45 Right. They use things like, you know, will take your baby, give your baby up for adoption. Are Those words and important? The words that we use, and we're talking about adoption in that context, important. They are so important. You know, the average person means no harm by what they're saying, but I will tell you, if you're dealing with a woman who is abortion minded, every word that you say is important because a lot of times we're dealing with a very short period of time when we are counseling with them. I will give you the biggest verbiage that is probably used, or most widely used, that is incorrect and people don't mean anything by it, but it is who it's something really need to change. When someone says put put your baby up for adoption, yeah, I cringe. I absolutely cringe. As an adoptive mom, you know how I help people to understand that. Never to say that is I say, you know, you put groceries up on the field, you do not put a child up for adoption. We are talking about a soul here. We are talking about a living human being. And so and I'm probably extra sensitive because I've got this child who, you know, our families always just celebrated adoption, but I always wanted to be careful that she felt and always knew that God had a plan for her life and she's exactly where she needs to be. I never wanted her to feel less then. Does that makes sense? I wanted to.

34:15 I wanted her to know that this is exactive I had for her life. I would say like even using the word unwanted pregnancy. I know it's a lot of those probably have used to. Maybe saying unplanned pregnancy is probably a better verbiage, and that case is when you all grows up hearing unwanted pregnancy. That's a that's a hard thing sometimes for our minds to comprehend what they may feel like. They felt like they were own wanted. I will tell you. You know in both of you know our adoption story. She was so, so wanted. I mean our family prayed for her. We didn't know who she was going to be. Her pregnancy, you know, with her birth mom, was unplanned, that she was so wanted. And these children, they are, you know, unfortunately, their mothers are taking them into abortion clients. There are. There are thousands and actually one point two million couples in America right now are waiting for an adopted child. So they are very wanted. So let me ask you just how you said don't say put a child up for adoption, but I'm not sure. I might have missed it. But what do we say? What are the better things to say? Okay, so what I really like to say is place a child into an adoptive family, because when you know about how like just change is your whole feeling, doesn't it? When you hear that like place a

35:46 child compared to put up for adopt? When I could, I just saw that. Rely remember the moment that our little girl was literally placed into my arms the first time, right, and it's such a more of a loving, gentle approach. And remember, our words are so important around the subject, because this is a highly emotional subject or mom or abortion minded. HMM. Yeah, so even playing in the arms of another loving family is it's maybe a way to describe it. Yeah, or placed into an adoptive family, as usually. You know how I say that. You know, we actually just did a podcast last week about words and how words matter, the words that we use in front of the abortion center and how we even the word like abortion center versus abortion meal or abortion clinic and all these words.

36:37 The words do matter and also we need to understand with the words that we use, they do carry weight and they can convey a picture and also words can empower. So when we're talking about placing your child, we're talking about we're almost empowering choice. You people talk about me. Yeah, choice as opposed to giving up your child. You are placing your child, taken up right, exactly, choosing and placing. Because, yeah, the real pro choice people are the people who are for life. Right, we're about choice. Yeah, the abortion industry, Plan Parenthood, pro abortion people, it's all about abortion. Right. There's no choices that are available. But if you look at I've even said it before, listen, the pro choice really people out here on the sidewalk, because we're offering you real choices. You can part your baby, you can place your child for adoption, you can within adoption. There's those three choices you broke down, open adoption, semi open adoption and a close adoption. So there's even more choices within that realm.

37:37 And so it's just awesome to be able to my mind, the words I hear you saying are words that empower these mothers to to choose. That's right. And let me ask you. Sometimes we empower them to the point this. I have seen, and I wonder if you have seen it, where maybe adoption is mentioned, because they've painted such oblique picture to me and and said they really cannot have this child and they have been so convicted in the same ways that you mentioned, through the conviction of the terrible sin of what they're about to do and through empowering statements, and they choose then to parent rather than to place their child in the arms of another loving adoptive family.

38:22 Have you seen that? Does that happen with you or? Okay, so are you mainly just asking if, like, if a woman has been presented with the adoption option and then she kind of walks on that path for wound, then she choose as to parent? Is that what you're asking? Have I seen some now sometimes walking down that path for a while? We did just have someone, we interviewed someone by the name of Ebony that we did a podcast, who was going to place your children, her child for adoption and then she she just came through, through the Gospel and through falling in love with the baby she was carrying, she decided to parent the child instead. But sometimes immediately they'll be saying, I'm going to kill this baby. Then they'll be saying, oh, they'll hear about adoption, but then they'll be so convicted by by what we're saying, the truth of the Gospel, whatever, they and their hearts will go then to parenting and I honestly I've seen that more in my experience. That's what I see. They'll go from abortion to parenting more readily than from abortion to adoption. So I guess I'm asking, are you've seen something different, or is that what you see?

39:31 I seek the same thing that you're seeing, but I probably obviously see the other component of going into adoption, because now our ministry is nationwide, so I get calls from all over. But yes, I actually worked with Evany and yeah, it was that's right, that's right. Yeah, that wasn't it was amazing, amazing situation and she came through that wonderfully and that's a great example of I would say a majority of the time what we do see is someone who's in that crisis mode, not seeing a way out, feeling like they can't parent, I'm going to go forward this abortion that, and I talked extensively with her about adoption and that was when I saw the soft putting occur and I felt in my heart that she was going to probably end up parenting that child. But I knew that the Holy Spirit was telling me to give her that option of adoption. It was the right timing and through that, I think, after we sip through that, you know many, many times, she was able to see herself in a position where she could parent that filed and that's what I see to Vicky. But because I do deal with a lot of situations for people across the nation, will call when when a woman has probably either tried to go to an abortion clinic already as an appointment scheduled fairly soon, or they're in a situation where they're they're calling on behalf of their daughter or granddaughter. I would say I'm in a

41:02 unique situation because I'm able to talk directly to them about adoption from the get go because they know who they're calling. But if I was on the sidewalk situation what you just said is much more likely to occur. Yeah, so I hope for people listening, we hadn't, you know, we haven't tried to paint like this bleak picture that adoption stories never happened and that, you know, obviously don't want to discourage anyone from offering adoption. I just think it helps people to understand an appropriate time and that adoption, even though it's this wonderful thing, it's not always appropriate to share about. Are there any stories that you have, just so we can encourage people who are listening, of MOMS who've decided to place their children? Obviously, you guys story to but you've walked with Mother's, you've walked with parents that want to adopt.

41:54 Their stories that you can share. They can encourage people that adoptions actually do take place in this in this realm of ministry. Yeah, we well, I'll give you a personal an example of that. So I would say I'm I goingness. Probably one of the first few years I was doing sidewalk ministry, I was out in front of the abortion clinic. I was on the sound system, on the microphone, and I saw a young woman going into the clinic and, you know, just started really giving the Gospel over that sound system. She was inside for maybe two or three minutes and when she came out I just expected her to go straight to her car, maybe get something out of her car, put something in, I'm not sure. And do you know, she walks straight over to me on that microphone, which is a pretty long walk. I mean it's not a short walk. You know they've gone. They got some time to change her mind. What they want to talk to you or not sure. And we talked for a few mis she said I heard what you were saying on the microphone and I remember I was I was saying I was getting the Gospel, but I was often talking about the different options and so I mean what's associated with these of those options? And she said, I heard what you're saying I want to know more about you, know what you can offer, and I felt very lad to then talk to her about adoption the as she wanted to know what the options were. That she was five weeks pregnant, so very, very early.

43:27 I walked with her throughout her entire pregnancy. She ended up placing that child for adoption and that was due to that ten minutes on the sidewalk. He had really, you know, heard what adoption was, didn't understand what her options were, but knew that she could not parents. So I think that's a great example of kind of getting that trust of the woman, seeing where their thought processes are and then giving them the true options. That, honor God, there's only two, you know. Yeah, I disagree with ministries that I give a woman three options. That makes me very, very only offer them abortion as an option, adoption, imparent yeah right, yeah, I really disagree with that. So when I'm when I'm counseling with a woman on the sidewalk or in the RV, I make it very clear that there are only two options, honor had, and I always tell them that that on our God and and I never talk about abortion from that point board.

44:28 Always let them know that it's either parenting or adoption. That may be some of the reason why I find that the women I've worked with have gone on to adopt. More is one. I think the Lord gave that testimony to our family. And then secondly is when you start talking like that that there's only two options it you know, it takes that other option off the table, because what I'm really see the Lord doing because obviously you know, you guys know, and I know the Lord's heart was for that mother to mother that child. Okay, and so that's the first option that we want to always talk to them about. But the other option, if it's just not feasible for her to parent, the only other option, in my eyes, and I think in the Lord's eyes, is a option. So I'm never mentioning abortion from that point forward, other than to tell them if you go forward with this, you know this is what you can expect. Yeah, yeah, of course, never validating. I mean, in reality, is abortion an option for them? Surely they can go in there, they can kill their child, but we don't validate that as an option, just like, you know, a mother of a three year old, is it an option for her to take that three year old child and throw that child off a bridge. She could choose to do that, but there's going to be consequences and we would never validate that as an option. And that's what people you know, I understand some well meeting people within pregnancy centers and whatever, want to seem neutral, but we have to understand that there is no

46:00 neutral ground. We're dealing with, dealing children in the womb right like. We've got to take a stand and we've gone to speak what God's word says, and when we do that, God honors that. Like you're, like you're talking about. I mean, I've actually seen Jessica, because you volunteered here on the sidewalks with us in Charlotte for years and I've seen you. I've seen little block life, your daughter who you guys adopted, and I've seen you share her story with abortion minded women on the sidewalk or even car side, and I've seen God just use her, you know, not not using her as a pawn or anything like that, but uses or sweet little face, Ye, to soften hearts. Yeah, I will tell you one story, because I know we got a wrap up, but just because the story I remember about you and Blithe was being on the sidewalk and a one of the pro socalled pro choice people with his sign came over to really protest what you were doing. You were talking car side with someone, I think, and you finished with that woman and turned to him with that sweet blythe next to you, and told him blythe story. And that man, that's the only time I have ever seen this happen. He took his sign, he what he didn't say a word. His eyes teared up. He took his sign, he put the sign in the car and drove away and I never saw him again. I remember that day. I remember and I will tell you, guys, when you know she has been with me on the sidewalks. Her testimony is so powerful. I feel like God does use those that have been spared from such an atrocity as abortion speak louder than then we

47:36 could ever dream of speaking. Sometimes I have seen that when we've been able to stop people car side before they enter into the parking lot of the abortion clinic. That is such a powerful test stimony of being able to see a child that was spared from a murder in a building just like the one that they're getting ready to enter into. There's there's a breaking that happens. I've seen some of the biggest men in the world, the toughest men, literally break down when life has shown them the fetal models and hold them part of her testimony with me there with her, of course. Yeah, and it's unbelievable how how God can reach someone by a child who's been spared from that, when they get, when they catch the glimpse of what their child will be in just a few years. Yeah, I remember you saying to him, can you look at this space, and we're all looking at precious supplies face, and you say, can you look at this face and tell her she should never have lived? Right? And it's that really is a question.

48:39 I asked the quote unquote pro choicers a lot, as well as the ones that are coming to the clinic to abort their children, because I've never had one person take me up on that right and I've I've come up against probably some of the toughest, most wicked pro choice protesters, whatever you want to call them, in the world, and they cannot do it. You just can't. And everybody inherently knows that every little boy and girl deserves life, and so so I just feel like God is moving and we are so thankful for what you guys are doing cities for life and training others. Hopefully, those that are listening to this podcast will have a fire letting them to get out on the sidewalks across this nation and really be the hands and feet of Jesus and we you know, anytime you're telling your neighbor that what they're getting ready to do is sin, and in this case it's murder, and you're doing that in love. That is that is the deepest love that you can give her someone is that they not go down, you know, that path of destruction. Yeah, a man will say it, Jessica. If folks that are listening to this podcast want to get in touch with you, how do they get in touch you? What's the best way to connect with with you and with option adoption? Sure, well, we have a website.

50:04 It's option adoptioncom and then we are on facebook as well and you can find us with under option adoption and can message us if there's, you know, any type of questions that they have. We work mainly, again, with the abortion minded men and women and we get a lot of questions from families. If we have you know children that need to be placed into adoptive families. That's not a component of our mistry, but we can direct them to wonderful Christian adoption agencies and Christian adoption lawyers to kind of help them on that journey. That's the route that God's calling their family to. Yeah, that's good. I appreciate that. So, yeah, I guess connect with Jessica Option adoptioncom. But Yeah, Jessica, we appreciate your time, appreciate you sharing your testimony, appreciate your heart. I know that just having you as a part of our ministry, as you were here in Charlotte's, just such a blessing, as blessing seeing what you guys are doing and just hearing what got us doing through you guys. And it's when encourage those who are listening to go to our website, because Jessica talked a little bit about sidewalk counseling and Nashally, and so we started the sidewalks for life websites. I walks, the number four LIFECOM and people can go there and get equipped to do sidewalk counseling, get trained up to be a sidewalk counsel in your area and we hope that's a blessing you. Hope this podcast was blessing you.

51:28 Guys. Please share it and until next time, God, bless me for love. Give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. No, Sing's too precious. And some you