Adoption and Frontline Prolife Ministry, How Do These Two Ministries Work Together

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.679I am yours. I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life200:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.830podcast. In this episode we havea special guest, Jessica Molin, with300:00:08.910 --> 00:00:12.550option adoption. She talks about someof the dus and don'ts of mentioning adoption400:00:12.589 --> 00:00:16.949to an abortion minded mother and sharesher family's adoption testimony. This is a500:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.350skype interview and the sound quality maybe slightly lacking, but we still think600:00:20.350 --> 00:00:31.859it'll be a blessing. Stay tuned. I felt show passis touch your use.700:00:33.659 --> 00:00:36.890Welcome to the Gospel Center pro lifepodcast. You appreciate you guys who800:00:37.009 --> 00:00:40.570listen. We Hook this podcast willbe a blessing and encouragement to you guys.900:00:41.210 --> 00:00:44.369We have today with this Jessica Molan. Say Hey, Jessica. Hey1000:00:44.450 --> 00:00:48.890there, it's good to have youjust Jessica is with option adoption. She1100:00:48.969 --> 00:00:51.880started this Ministry of some time ago. She'll share a little bit of her1200:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.679story in that. But reason whyI felt like we needed to have this1300:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.880podcast, I mean Vickie talked abouthaving this podcast, is we are getting1400:00:58.880 --> 00:01:00.640a lot of questions. I meanwe always have, but now even more1500:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.750so, getting a lot of questionsof people asking don't you guys offer adoption1600:01:04.790 --> 00:01:07.790at the abortion center? I wouldlove to adopt a baby. Can You?1700:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.629Can you connect you with a momat the abortion center that would want1800:01:11.670 --> 00:01:15.230to let us adopt her baby?So we want to talk about some of1900:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.700those questions and we thought Jessica wouldbe the perfect person to answer some of2000:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.060those questions talk about some of that, because she has a perspective of being2100:01:23.140 --> 00:01:29.540involved in adoption and helping people placetheir children for adoption and helping people can2200:01:29.659 --> 00:01:33.370nect with MOMS who want to adopt, but also even has an adoption story2300:01:33.450 --> 00:01:37.329in her past and with her familyand stall some story and she's been on2400:01:37.370 --> 00:01:40.689the sidewalk to sky kind. Shehas the best of all the world's that2500:01:40.769 --> 00:01:44.049we're discussion. Yep, so,so, Jessica. That's why we wanted2600:01:44.049 --> 00:01:47.049to bring you on. So ifyou could just to give the folks a2700:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.359little bit of context understanding who youare, cheer, cheer, who you2800:01:51.439 --> 00:01:57.120are, what the ministry does andyour story personally of your little girl,2900:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.230Blythe and how the Lord orchestrated allof that. Okay, would love to.3000:02:02.390 --> 00:02:07.790Well, let's see, my husbandand I and our family really started3100:02:07.389 --> 00:02:13.830with the sidewalk ministry. I wouldsay, it's been close to seven or3200:02:13.870 --> 00:02:17.219eight years ago now, and wereally didn't know a whole lot about sidewalk3300:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.900ministry. was just kind of wherethe Lord planted us. And then once3400:02:22.020 --> 00:02:25.699we had been on the sidewalk forabout a year, we started to really3500:02:25.740 --> 00:02:34.689ask more questions about how many womenchoose life and place for adoption versus going3600:02:34.770 --> 00:02:38.530forward with an abortion. And thereason we were asking that question was because3700:02:39.409 --> 00:02:45.439we had just gone through an adoptionof our little girl life, and we3800:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.800didn't really know her whole story whenwe first adopted her, but as started3900:02:50.840 --> 00:02:55.000to unfold, her birth mother sharedmore and more about the situation while she4000:02:55.120 --> 00:03:00.150was pregnant with life, and sothat really lit to fire on us to4100:03:00.229 --> 00:03:05.110be on the sidewalk even more andthen to ask those questions that I mentioned4200:03:05.110 --> 00:03:10.189before, which was how many womenreally choose adoption over abortion? And what4300:03:10.310 --> 00:03:15.659we started to find out was areally grim statistic, which was less than4400:03:15.740 --> 00:03:23.020two percent of women choose adoption overdeath. And that just broke my heart4500:03:23.020 --> 00:03:27.409because, you know, for myhusband and I we were sitting here with4600:03:27.530 --> 00:03:31.250this living example of what choosing lifelooks like. But not just that,4700:03:32.169 --> 00:03:38.090but also the added layer of placingthat child into an adoptive family. And4800:03:38.210 --> 00:03:43.879so what we did was we wenton a journey and we essentially ask the4900:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.439Lord to guide us to a ministrythat was already in place here in the5000:03:47.560 --> 00:03:57.270US. That was frontline ministry thathelped people who were abortion determined or abortion5100:03:57.669 --> 00:04:02.110minded the adoption as a choice.And I'll be honest, I searched high5200:04:02.189 --> 00:04:06.710and low. I could not findanybody that was doing it frontline. Now,5300:04:06.750 --> 00:04:12.500there were lots of adoption agencies anddifferent resources like that, but the5400:04:12.620 --> 00:04:16.180front line is really where our heartsare and that by sidewalk ministry is yeah,5500:04:16.180 --> 00:04:20.180I'm very passionate about it. SoI was like, Oh my goodness,5600:04:20.459 --> 00:04:24.100Lord, are you calling us tostart a ministry? Because I'll just5700:04:24.220 --> 00:04:28.290be honest with you, my mindsetabout ministries are there are a lot of5800:04:28.370 --> 00:04:30.810them and I'm not so sure weneed so many of them. So I5900:04:31.209 --> 00:04:36.610was very hesitant that the Lord wascalling us to that and we really took6000:04:36.649 --> 00:04:41.160a long time to pray about it. We had just decided to start homeschooling6100:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.800our son, who was our oldest, and we had just adopted life not6200:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.160too long before that. So Iwas thinking, Wow, this is a6300:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.399big rolling here, a Lord thatyou're asking us to do, but with6400:04:51.560 --> 00:04:56.870support of those around us and,you know, cities for life being with6500:04:57.110 --> 00:05:00.470them a leading up to that therewas lots of support around kind of starting6600:05:00.509 --> 00:05:05.550a branch of a ministry that wouldhelp with the adoption component. So that's6700:05:05.629 --> 00:05:10.860kind of, in a nutshell,how my husband and I came to start6800:05:10.899 --> 00:05:15.740up to adoption, and what fuelsour passion for that is the fact that6900:05:15.339 --> 00:05:21.730we adopted our daughter and she wasspared from abortion. Just so took him7000:05:21.810 --> 00:05:27.329talk a little bit about what exactlyoption adoption does, just in a brief7100:05:27.370 --> 00:05:33.490summary or so. Option adoption isa little different than other adoption ministries because7200:05:33.529 --> 00:05:39.000of that one component that I wasjust mentioning, that frontline component. What7300:05:39.439 --> 00:05:46.040we like to do is train frontlineministries like sidewalk monistries like these for life.7400:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.589Sometimes it's been with pregnancy resource centers. It's also been with lay people7500:05:50.790 --> 00:05:57.029or church leaders, and what welike to do from an educational side is7600:05:57.149 --> 00:06:03.500help people understand on what adoption isso they can talk about adoption with women7700:06:03.579 --> 00:06:10.220and men who are abortion minded.The other side of the ministry is directly7800:06:10.500 --> 00:06:15.899working with those abortion minded men andwomen, and that has just been an7900:06:15.939 --> 00:06:20.730amazing experience because I think what happensa lot of times is a woman who's8000:06:20.769 --> 00:06:27.930abortion minded maybe very fearful of directlytalking to an agency and adoption agency.8100:06:28.490 --> 00:06:32.199So option, adoption is like aneutral ground for her. She's not feeling8200:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.279as if she has to go aheadand pull the trigger on that right away.8300:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.199We are a resource that can helpher understand what adoption is, what8400:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.079her choices are and how it's differentthan, let's say, foster care,8500:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.910because that's a big myth that youknow. It's the same as foster care,8600:06:49.069 --> 00:06:54.430and so that's kind of our twobig things that we do. So8700:06:54.629 --> 00:07:00.709one is educational for those that wantto walk alongside of women and men that8800:07:00.910 --> 00:07:05.939are abortion minded, and the otherside is directly working with a woman or,8900:07:06.300 --> 00:07:11.379you know, a man that isabortion deferment. Okay, Great.9000:07:12.180 --> 00:07:16.889So you said that two percent.was that two percent women that actually consider9100:07:17.610 --> 00:07:24.970adoption? There? Well, thetwo percent is the number of women who9200:07:25.089 --> 00:07:30.720actually choose life and then go forwardwith adoption. Okay, right, right.9300:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.399So okay, then low number.M So it is a really low9400:07:34.480 --> 00:07:38.519number and that has definitely been ourexperience. In fact, I've been out9500:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.199there what six and a half years, something like that now, and I9600:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.350have never had a woman choose adoptionand in fact, if I mention adoption,9700:07:46.709 --> 00:07:51.029it's often a showstopper. They theyno longer want to talk to me9800:07:51.589 --> 00:07:55.629just because had something that you havefaced. And can you address that?9900:07:55.829 --> 00:08:00.779Why that happens? And maybe yousaid you train people so that that doesn't10000:08:00.860 --> 00:08:03.819happen, and it would it wouldbe great to hear some of the things10100:08:03.980 --> 00:08:07.139that might guide us out there.Yeah, I'll just jump in here real10200:08:07.139 --> 00:08:11.459quick before you answer that, Jessica, and just you know, our experience10300:08:11.579 --> 00:08:15.889is, again, like a startedtalking in the Intro, was that we10400:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.009get people always asking us aside wontcounselors, don't you guys off all for10500:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.730adoption? Yeah, and then evensome people with the mentality that like we10600:08:22.810 --> 00:08:26.689need to stand out in front ofthe abortion clinic can just say I'll adopt10700:08:26.730 --> 00:08:30.120your baby. Yeah, your babyright, and there are people that,10800:08:30.160 --> 00:08:31.639I think you know, with goodintentions, think that that's the best way10900:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.080to offer adoption of that context.Yeah, but not always is an option.11000:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.759They first thing. I mean very, very often it's not the first11100:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.669thing we need to say right,I'm in total agreement. Yeah, I11200:08:43.750 --> 00:08:48.149totally agree with what you just said. I would I would say my experience11300:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.309lines up with exactly what both ofyou just mentioned. From my years of11400:08:52.429 --> 00:08:56.580being on the sidewalk, I willtell you that I don't think it's something11500:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.779that we should lead with, andthere's a big reason. Obviously, a11600:09:01.580 --> 00:09:07.659woman WHO's chosen to walk into anabortion clinic has many things going on at11700:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.889that time and a lot of times, like Vicky you said, it being11800:09:11.929 --> 00:09:18.690a show stopper is because that's avery emotional topic and many times, you11900:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.370know, you will hear from awoman who is anchored by someone saying that,12000:09:22.730 --> 00:09:26.840you know, if I cannot raisethis baby, nobody's going to raise12100:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.840this baby. And so that's whyit's probably not the best thing to lead12200:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.320with. What I have found isafter talking with someone about the reasons that12300:09:37.080 --> 00:09:41.870to the clinic situation is being ableto go through some scriptures with them,12400:09:43.190 --> 00:09:48.950with the Gospel, a lots ofheart is softened and honestly, I depend12500:09:48.070 --> 00:09:52.740totally on the Holy Spirit as towhen I am to talk about adoption or12600:09:52.820 --> 00:09:56.379not. There are many times thatit does not come up at all for12700:09:56.539 --> 00:10:00.019me when I'm with a woman onthe sidewalk, but there a are plenty12800:10:00.059 --> 00:10:05.179of times that it does and ourministry has had just amazing results with women12900:10:05.259 --> 00:10:11.929placing for adoption. So it's goodat least build some kind of repoor with13000:10:11.049 --> 00:10:16.330an abortion ated woman and build arelationship with her before you introduce the subject13100:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.409of adoption. Absolutely, I meanI think if we if we were to13200:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.080turn it and think about what thatwoman may be feeling in that moment,13300:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.159you know, if that would bethe very first thing we lead with,13400:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.240it's a could be a big turnoff. I'm not saying that happens in13500:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.399every case, but I would saya majority of the cases. If we13600:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.110can build the upport first and thata trust, and build it as quickly13700:10:39.190 --> 00:10:46.870as we can, then it's almostas if we have earned the ability to13800:10:46.990 --> 00:10:50.460go into a much deeper subject.That I'll just be honest. There is13900:10:50.500 --> 00:10:56.899a lot of emotion surround around thesubject of adoption. Just is and you14000:10:56.980 --> 00:11:01.419know what I'll say about that is, if we think of it from a14100:11:01.580 --> 00:11:07.450biblical standpoint and a spiritual standpoint,you know, God created the mother that's14200:11:07.490 --> 00:11:11.529carrying that child to be that child'smother and the father of that child to14300:11:11.649 --> 00:11:18.960be that child's father. And soadoption at its core is counter to what14400:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.679the Lord intended for the Child.Okay, now I say that and those14500:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.120are listening, you know some thatare adoptive parents, they may be saying,14600:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.559why is she saying that? Well, because at it the truth.14700:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.549Now and and so when we're doingsomething counter to what it is that God14800:11:35.710 --> 00:11:41.590intended, we know that there's goingto be opposition to that and it's actually14900:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.029in the spirit realm right. Sowe have to we have to know what15000:11:45.149 --> 00:11:50.820we're going into. So that's whyI really caution those that are talking to15100:11:50.019 --> 00:11:54.620someone who's abortion minded not let adoptionbe the very first thing, but kind15200:11:54.659 --> 00:12:01.529of kind of build that rapport inthat trust and then offered as an option.15300:12:01.809 --> 00:12:05.529It definitely needs to be offered.I mean I am a big advocate15400:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.450of it being offered, even if, even if right a way, you15500:12:07.570 --> 00:12:11.769know that the woman has said.You know what, before I do that,15600:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.080I would parent. It's still needsto be offered because what we found15700:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.120when we started the ministry it waspeople are so uncomfortable around the subject of15800:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.879adoption that they sometimes don't even mentionit. And so I'm a huge advocate15900:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.990of, you know, training peoplehow to mention it and how to build16000:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.429that rapport first, before we dojust cut can eat. Can you give16100:12:35.509 --> 00:12:41.190us some specifics about what situations orstatements you hear from the abortion minded moms16200:12:41.669 --> 00:12:50.740that trigger you into feeling this isthe time to mention adoption? A lot16300:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.580of times, you know well,as you both know, every situation is16400:12:54.820 --> 00:13:00.370so, so different, and I'mreally trying to listen to the heart of16500:13:00.490 --> 00:13:05.490that woman. Tell me that there'ssomething that's going to keep her from being16600:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.610a parent. Okay, now,obviously, if they're in the situation,16700:13:09.730 --> 00:13:13.440they're coming to an abortion clinic.They don't want to parent. That's just16800:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.639the truth. They don't want toparent, they're trying to in that process.16900:13:16.279 --> 00:13:22.960And so once built that rapport withher and that trust and I've broken17000:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.840down and maybe she's telling me youknow what, like Elf for instance,17100:13:26.960 --> 00:13:31.389and two weeks ago I had awoman that was coming to an abortion clinic17200:13:31.830 --> 00:13:35.710stop her in the per working longbefore she went in and she had lost17300:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.259her jug due to the COVID nineteencrisis. And so for her I was17400:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.460able to find out that it wasa financial reason. Okay, so,17500:13:46.620 --> 00:13:50.860once I've isolated that reason. WhatI like to do is kind of talk17600:13:50.940 --> 00:13:56.129to them in more depth about thatand find out, you know, where17700:13:56.169 --> 00:14:01.409they stand on seeing can they seepast today? A lot of times when17800:14:01.450 --> 00:14:05.370someone's in a crisis mode like that, it just can't see past today,17900:14:05.889 --> 00:14:13.480and and then reminding them that thechoice of abortion is forever, whereas the18000:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.600circumstances can change with the help of, you know, our ministry or ministries18100:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.960like ours. And then if shestill is saying, you know, I18200:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.029just cannot parent, here's the reasonswhy. That's when I will usually go18300:14:28.269 --> 00:14:31.429in with the option of a optionfor her and kind of just see where18400:14:31.509 --> 00:14:37.029she is about her knowledge of adoption. Every woman comes to the situation print.18500:14:37.470 --> 00:14:41.220I have many women who have beenin the foster care system, so18600:14:41.379 --> 00:14:46.059they have the idea of the adoptionis foster care, and so we have18700:14:46.299 --> 00:14:52.419to learn to just spel that myth. That is number one. Appreciate you18800:14:52.580 --> 00:14:56.009mentioned Jessica, and one of thethings that I think you know us,18900:14:56.330 --> 00:15:01.929I would say white Christians especially don'treally understand, is that we deal with19000:15:01.970 --> 00:15:07.090a lot of African American young ladiesat the abortion clinic and the statistics are19100:15:07.129 --> 00:15:11.320a lot of those women have eitherbeen in the foster care system or know19200:15:11.480 --> 00:15:15.440people that have been, and whenwe say adoption, they hear foster care,19300:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.080and so talk a little bit about, if you can, how we19400:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.029how we dispel that that lie.That's not they're not the same, even19500:15:24.070 --> 00:15:26.350though foster care is not a badthing. No one's saying that it is.19600:15:26.470 --> 00:15:28.429They're just some people that have somebad experiences. Have had some bad19700:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.629experiences in the foster care system.But how do we? How do we,19800:15:33.590 --> 00:15:37.860and again I don't know if it'snot just African American women, but19900:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.620the statistics are that, you know, in the fall care system there's a20000:15:41.659 --> 00:15:43.899lot of African American right, ladiesthat grow up in that. Yeah,20100:15:45.019 --> 00:15:48.220young men that grow up in that. How do we dispel those myths and20200:15:48.299 --> 00:15:52.289how do we separate those two things? Foster Care in adoption? These two20300:15:52.289 --> 00:15:56.409are not the same in a waythat she can hear that. I think20400:15:56.529 --> 00:16:00.009the the biggest thing that I dowhen I'm speaking to a woman and I20500:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.720find out that that's on her radar, it's like a red flag for her.20600:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.200She's saying foster care. The firstthing that I do is make sure20700:16:08.360 --> 00:16:14.919she understands the difference, and whatI lead with is that adoption is making20800:16:14.960 --> 00:16:22.629a plan for her baby before thatbaby's birth and that mother choosing a family20900:16:22.750 --> 00:16:26.269for that child. So if you'reable to put it like that to someone,21000:16:26.309 --> 00:16:33.100I think it helps ease all thosefears that like maybe if she was21100:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.539in the foster care system herself.We all know, unfortunately, many of21200:16:37.700 --> 00:16:41.740the children that come through foster caredo not remain with one family and depending21300:16:41.740 --> 00:16:47.610on the age that you start infoster care, you can be bounced between21400:16:48.090 --> 00:16:52.250eight to ten family sometimes it's theaverage you're entering, you know, around21500:16:52.690 --> 00:16:57.690zero to two years old. Sothat's really the main thing because remember,21600:16:59.250 --> 00:17:03.320obviously we're talking about it from asidewalk counselor perspective. We may not have21700:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.440a whole lot of time, sowe've got to know, we got to21800:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.400be armed and prepared for the information. That is the number one thing I21900:17:10.519 --> 00:17:15.230would say to always lead with,because that kind of that helps ease those22000:17:17.630 --> 00:17:21.829anxious thoughts that they're having about adoption. And then I usually get more questions22100:17:21.869 --> 00:17:25.710from them after that. Sometimes theystill shut me down about adoption, but22200:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.829there are many times where they askmore questions because when a woman feels like22300:17:30.099 --> 00:17:34.700she has the power to choose thefamily for her child and she's part of22400:17:34.859 --> 00:17:40.380that and it can be done whileshe's still pregnant, that's very free for22500:17:40.500 --> 00:17:45.130her and she doesn't feel as ifa child's going to be taken from her22600:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.210and then placed into a system thatshe might not be part of. Along22700:17:49.289 --> 00:17:53.369those same lines, I've talked withthe very few times I have brought adoption22800:17:53.410 --> 00:18:00.319up at at all, it isoften perceived as only closed adoption and I22900:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.680really knew very little about open versusclosed adoption until I met you, frankly.23000:18:06.200 --> 00:18:07.759So could you talk about that,because I think that's helpful too.23100:18:07.880 --> 00:18:12.549I knows when I have spoken aboutadoption, when I've described an open adoption,23200:18:14.190 --> 00:18:18.109the women do seem more open tothe idea. Yes, I find23300:18:18.109 --> 00:18:22.630the same thing. So I alwayslove for everybody to know as much as23400:18:22.750 --> 00:18:29.900they can before counseling with, youknow, women in these situations. And23500:18:30.140 --> 00:18:33.339so the best way for us tobreak it down is that there are three23600:18:33.380 --> 00:18:41.019types of adoptions. There is fullopen and then there's semi closed and closed.23700:18:41.059 --> 00:18:45.730Okay, so I'll break that down. So the open is exactly what23800:18:45.890 --> 00:18:49.450it what it sounds like. Sothe the mother and possibly the birth thought23900:18:49.450 --> 00:18:55.799there as well have an open relationshipwith that child as that child is growing24000:18:55.880 --> 00:19:00.319up. Now the adoptive family,along with the birth mother and possibly the24100:19:00.440 --> 00:19:07.279birth fathers around that how much openthis there is in their comfort levels,24200:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.349and that's all done as part ofthat adoption plan that I was talking about.24300:19:14.029 --> 00:19:15.670Now give you an example of that, because to help your listeners.24400:19:17.150 --> 00:19:23.269So in our case we have itset up with my first mother that once24500:19:23.299 --> 00:19:27.859a year, sometime time around herbirthday, that her birth mother and the24600:19:27.980 --> 00:19:33.500grandparents and even aunts and uncle's cancome and visit. We usually spend an24700:19:33.539 --> 00:19:37.940entire day with them and that way, you know, they are able to24800:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.210see her as she's growing up.We have such a good relationship with her24900:19:41.250 --> 00:19:47.930birth family that I do send picturesthroughout the year and the texts to let25000:19:48.009 --> 00:19:51.890them know, you know, howshe's growing. So that's the kind of25100:19:52.009 --> 00:19:56.599openness that we have and there is. There's different levels of openness, but25200:19:56.720 --> 00:20:03.160that's just one one example. Semiclosed would mean during the pregnancy, the25300:20:04.160 --> 00:20:10.990the mother carrying the baby, wouldget to know the family that's going to25400:20:11.109 --> 00:20:15.549adopt the baby, but she wouldhave no identifying information about that family,25500:20:15.829 --> 00:20:22.180so she wouldn't know their last namesor address where they work, anything like25600:20:22.339 --> 00:20:26.539that. There's a relationship and rapportthat's being built during the pregnancy, but25700:20:26.740 --> 00:20:33.140it's not going to extend after thechild is born. Okay, and then25800:20:33.180 --> 00:20:38.849the last one is closed, andthat would mean that there is no relationship25900:20:40.329 --> 00:20:45.009while the pregnancy is going on andnone after. So no identifying informations going26000:20:45.049 --> 00:20:52.519to be traded between the birth motherand the adoptive family. So just the26100:20:52.880 --> 00:21:00.039adoption agency or an adoption lawyer wouldhave those, those records field the hope26200:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.710of that kind of breaks it downand honestly, ninety five percent of all26300:21:03.710 --> 00:21:11.589adoptions today are open adoptions because yearsago what they found through research was that26400:21:11.910 --> 00:21:18.940children who were hidden, I shouldsay not hidden, the information was hidden26500:21:18.940 --> 00:21:23.140from them about their adoption stories ortheir birth parents, really did not adjust26600:21:23.180 --> 00:21:27.019as well. It's not that theydidn't love the family so they've been placed26700:21:27.099 --> 00:21:32.420into. But remember when I saidthe beginning of this podcast is that we're26800:21:32.460 --> 00:21:37.009doing something counter to what God intended. Okay, so inside of each of26900:21:37.170 --> 00:21:42.369us as human being, there isa loaning to want to know who our27000:21:42.490 --> 00:21:45.769parents are. I mean, youcan't take that from a human it's just27100:21:45.930 --> 00:21:51.680a natural thing within us. Andso what they were finding was that a27200:21:52.200 --> 00:21:57.559lot of those that were adopted justwere not able to handle some situations in27300:21:57.680 --> 00:22:02.309life as well. So they shifted. I really don't know how many years27400:22:02.349 --> 00:22:06.990ago, I would say, goodness, I mean life almost ten I'd say27500:22:07.029 --> 00:22:11.549it's been at least fifteen or twentyyears that that open adoption has really been27600:22:11.829 --> 00:22:18.259the standard of adoptions in America.Yeah, have go ahead and and yes,27700:22:18.500 --> 00:22:21.539I was gonna just touch on alittle bit of what I had spoken27800:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.900about just just previously before this thisquestion, this subject, where I'd introduced27900:22:25.980 --> 00:22:30.730the racial component here. Like thisis the big thing to focus on,28000:22:30.890 --> 00:22:33.369but I think people do need tounderstand because at least where we're at here28100:22:33.410 --> 00:22:37.809in Charlotte, it's probably seventy,five, eighty percent of the women that28200:22:37.849 --> 00:22:41.609we see at the abortion clinics orAfrican American. Right in your mind,28300:22:44.009 --> 00:22:48.039is there a racial component to adoption? Are there? Is there a stigma28400:22:48.519 --> 00:22:53.480within certain communities that's associated with adoption, and how do we get past that?28500:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.839If you know, if we can? Yeah, and are you saying28600:22:56.880 --> 00:23:03.990a stigma associated as of white familyadopting a black child, specifically adoption in28700:23:03.069 --> 00:23:07.910general. Okay, I mean atleast my I'll just full disclosure my experiences28800:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.430being within the African American community.Like adoption is a non starter in a28900:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.259lot of conversations. Yeah, andthere's like this stigma that's attached to it,29000:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.619and I think it has to dowith that conflation of foster care and29100:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.539adoption together, but there could besome other things. I am I wrong29200:23:22.700 --> 00:23:26.579in my perception, Jessica? Yeah, no, actually, I think you're29300:23:26.779 --> 00:23:30.170right in your perception of that andI've spent, you know, the last29400:23:30.210 --> 00:23:34.970several years that have been working withoption, adoption on these projects that we've29500:23:34.970 --> 00:23:38.210been doing, trying to figure thatout and I felt the Lord has given29600:23:38.289 --> 00:23:41.400me some insight into that and I'msure there's a lot more I need to29700:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.519learn, but what I find isthat, if we're going to break it29800:23:45.680 --> 00:23:52.400down into different community groups, whatI find is in the Caucasian community group,29900:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.789adopted is thought of as an option, like it is something that definitely30000:23:57.869 --> 00:24:03.549is on the forefront of someone's mindif they find themselves in a crisis pregnancy.30100:24:03.230 --> 00:24:07.349With the African American community, whatI've experienced and I've interviewed a lot30200:24:07.390 --> 00:24:11.740of my friends about this. Itis not something that's on the forefront of30300:24:11.859 --> 00:24:15.779their minds. And then you're youhit on a little bit about the foster30400:24:15.859 --> 00:24:19.299care system, and by no meansof my saying that there's you know,30500:24:19.980 --> 00:24:23.609just because the African American you knowthey've thought to the foster care system.30600:24:23.650 --> 00:24:30.009But what I have found an interviewingis the stigmas that come with adoption are30700:24:30.170 --> 00:24:37.210there mainly because of that foster carecomponent and because of culture component, which30800:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.599would mean the African American community isa very tight knit community. It's a30900:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.279very beautiful thing. Their families areusually are very tight knit, and what31000:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.160I have found is that community group, along with the Hispanic community group,31100:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.950because both of them have very tightknit family groups, they look to find31200:24:57.269 --> 00:25:02.470family membbers first and foremost, ifthey're in a crisis situation and a pregnancy31300:25:02.589 --> 00:25:07.420like this, to help raise thatchild. And a lot of times what31400:25:07.539 --> 00:25:11.700I have heard from my friends ifis if that's not an option, that's31500:25:11.779 --> 00:25:18.660when abortion is the next option.Okay, and then obviously adoptions not truly31600:25:18.779 --> 00:25:22.970on the radar as much. Thisis that found across the board. So31700:25:22.890 --> 00:25:26.890in those community groups that, likeI said, have the tight knit families31800:25:27.490 --> 00:25:32.890and I do think, especially forthe African American community group, this is31900:25:33.130 --> 00:25:37.039tied back to much more and Iever understood until I had someone sit down32000:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.279with me and explain it. Iteven goes as far back as into the32100:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.359roots of slavery, and you knowthat's that's a whole nother you know,32200:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.549subject. But the way it wasexplained to me was that plays into their32300:25:49.750 --> 00:25:55.190idea of what you said, Daniel, of a white family possibly adopting a32400:25:55.509 --> 00:26:00.430child. You know that is AfricanAmerican. And one of the things is32500:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.940I talked with people and you know, as we train our sidewalk counselors and32600:26:04.019 --> 00:26:07.299we you know, of course wewant to mention adoption when it's appropriate,32700:26:07.779 --> 00:26:11.180but sometimes, you know, wetell our folks that's not something we need32800:26:11.220 --> 00:26:14.980to be mentioned on right away.And some folks, you know, most32900:26:15.019 --> 00:26:19.089of our sidewalk counselors are, arewhite women and we do have, praise33000:26:19.130 --> 00:26:22.690Gods Africanamerican young ladies that come andvolunteer. But you know, I tell33100:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.650her so what comes you have tounderstand from their perspective. Again, when33200:26:26.690 --> 00:26:30.569you have eighty percent of the womengoing in our African American so that's who33300:26:30.609 --> 00:26:33.920you're talking to when you're saying,Hey, I'll adopt your baby, I'll33400:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.039take your baby. That might soundreally gracious and kind from your ears.33500:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.559You know you hearing that. Whatthey're hearing is, Hey, young black33600:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.119lady, you can't take care ofyour child, let let a rich white33700:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.150person take care of your town.I mean that's that's sometimes that's what they're33800:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.230here and we need to understand that. Yeah, that don't sound good to33900:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.950the ears. Yeah, yeah,yeah, so off. And I hear,34000:26:53.990 --> 00:26:57.950I think you said it before,but that they would rather have the34100:26:59.069 --> 00:27:03.380baby die then place that child foradoption. That's so frequently the response,34200:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.859and so as you're answering this question, I would love to hear how you34300:27:07.980 --> 00:27:11.059would respond to that, because wedo hear that all the time. And34400:27:11.180 --> 00:27:17.490of course it's not just black women. White women going to the able dry34500:27:17.809 --> 00:27:19.410coming and that's the response that youhear. That's right. Yeah, I'd34600:27:19.410 --> 00:27:23.289rather have the abortion to give mybaby to some that's right. Yeah,34700:27:23.289 --> 00:27:30.240yeah, and that is you know, Fernie's idwalk counselors listening at. I34800:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.920know they've had that experience. I'msure, like all of us have.34900:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.599I would say, you know,what I usually say after that is I'm35000:27:37.759 --> 00:27:42.759trying to get that woman into amindset that she's seeing what she's getting ready35100:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.549to do, number one, asmurder. I'll just be honest, like35200:27:47.109 --> 00:27:51.630yeah, I need her to seein that moment that she is getting ready35300:27:51.670 --> 00:27:56.230to serve her child to death.And and so if she says what you35400:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.380said, Vickie, right after youknow we've mentioned, you know, this35500:28:00.539 --> 00:28:06.500option of adopted her, you know, helping that person really understand. Obviously35600:28:06.579 --> 00:28:10.339we're doing in truth, we're doingit in love, but helping her to35700:28:10.380 --> 00:28:15.690understand that what she's getting ready todo is selfish, it's sinful and it35800:28:15.890 --> 00:28:21.210is murder in the eyes of God. And there are many times I've seen35900:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.690women who, because no one wouldtell them in love that kind of truth.36000:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.000I've seen them stop in their trackedand really think about what I just36100:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.119said to them, because it's shockingwhen you hear that come out of out36200:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.559of someone's mouth, that what they'regetting ready to do. So hoping them36300:28:37.640 --> 00:28:44.109understand that you would rather put thatinnocent baby boy or girl to death then36400:28:44.230 --> 00:28:48.829give that child a chance at lifewith a family who's willing to step in36500:28:49.109 --> 00:28:56.619and say we will take this childas our own and love this child as36600:28:56.700 --> 00:29:00.019our own. That may not bethe message they want to hear in that36700:29:00.180 --> 00:29:07.059moment, but we also understand us. I Walk Counselors and Frontline Ministry that36800:29:07.779 --> 00:29:12.569this is the last stitch effort beforea child is put to death. Did36900:29:12.569 --> 00:29:15.730you say justice? Because one ofthe things in my mind that I'm thinking37000:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.569is, okay, a woman goinginto an abortion clinic, she's about to37100:29:19.650 --> 00:29:22.569do and her mindset, and I'mnot trying to, you know, broad37200:29:22.609 --> 00:29:26.519brush every woman going into an abortionclinic. I'm not just trying to say37300:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.519that I'm better than they are anythinglike that, but the reality is a37400:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.880woman going into an abortion clinic isdoing one of the most selfish things that37500:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.279a woman could kill her baby through. ABOORDTION's all right, we know,37600:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.109we understand that. And so whenwe're talking about adoption, we're really talking.37700:29:41.230 --> 00:29:44.950We're trying to get her to gofrom zero to a thousand and like37800:29:45.309 --> 00:29:49.309fifteen seconds, because adoption is oneof the most selfless things that she can37900:29:49.589 --> 00:29:52.670place her child to carry your childfor now, want to place it with38000:29:52.710 --> 00:29:56.259another family. Would you say thatthat's part of the component. You're asking38100:29:56.259 --> 00:29:59.819them to come from one of themost selfish mindsets to one of the most38200:29:59.819 --> 00:30:03.940selfless mindsets and it's a real heartseal in that moment. Yeah, that's38300:30:03.980 --> 00:30:08.210exactly what we're asking them to doand it is a very, very difficult38400:30:08.210 --> 00:30:12.690thing to do, because we allknow that by the time a woman has38500:30:14.329 --> 00:30:18.730entered into driving her car and gettingup the morning going to that abortion clinic,38600:30:18.289 --> 00:30:22.200something in her mind has told herthat's what she wants to do and38700:30:22.319 --> 00:30:27.920needs to do. So I willtell you the Times that it has has38800:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.319been a message that has been takenby a woman has been amazing to see.38900:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.349But, as you guys know,that message is not always something that39000:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.950is heard and it doesn't penetrate theheart. But going from selfish the selfless39100:30:42.470 --> 00:30:48.309because, like you said, Daniel, placing a child into another family and39200:30:48.549 --> 00:30:52.940knowing that you are not going tobe there for all the first in life39300:30:53.099 --> 00:30:59.299and all the milestones possibly and allthese things is a very selfless thing to39400:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.980do. It means that you areloving that child more than you love yourself.39500:31:03.769 --> 00:31:07.450And you know, I've seen thatplayed out with our daughter's birth mother39600:31:07.690 --> 00:31:14.089and you know, the choice ofadoption does not come without wounds. We39700:31:14.210 --> 00:31:18.250are thinking, we're so yeah,we're so thankful that these women choose life,39800:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.200but we have to be sensitive tothe fact that even with this choice39900:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.039there are wounds. And so Ithink the end of you were you were40000:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.039dead on it when you said,you know, going from selfish the selfless.40100:31:32.480 --> 00:31:37.109Great Way to put it. Wepretireing up because in our in our40200:31:37.150 --> 00:31:41.829Christian culture, in our American Christianculture, and rightly so, you know,40300:31:41.869 --> 00:31:45.390adoption, we see it as agood and a godly thing, and40400:31:45.509 --> 00:31:47.819we might be because of that because, you know, we look in the40500:31:47.859 --> 00:31:49.660scripture and we see, hey,we're adopted by God, and so adoption40600:31:49.819 --> 00:31:52.619is. I mean it's a wonderfulthing, and it is, but we40700:31:52.660 --> 00:31:57.299shouldn't be blind to the fact thateven with adoption there are some wounds,40800:31:57.420 --> 00:32:02.089there's some it's not just all placeyour baby with the family and then that's40900:32:02.130 --> 00:32:06.130the end of it. Obviously there'sstuff that goes on with all of that,41000:32:06.769 --> 00:32:10.930which is why I think it's importantto have a ministry like yours that41100:32:12.210 --> 00:32:15.119is, you know, not just, you know, not just placing families41200:32:15.680 --> 00:32:22.240and or placing connecting mothers with familiesthat want to adopt children, but even41300:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.359just helping out with some of thelanguage that we use and helping out with41400:32:24.519 --> 00:32:29.200some of the sensitivities we need tohave, obviously in light of the Gospel41500:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.670and light of God's word, ifyou could, because you've taught me some41600:32:31.910 --> 00:32:37.269things over the years in talking aboutadoption and and just the verbage that we41700:32:37.430 --> 00:32:39.430use. Right. So we've talkedthrough this podcast so far. We've talked41800:32:39.470 --> 00:32:43.430about, you know, placing yourbaby with adoption, but that's not always41900:32:43.470 --> 00:32:45.859how Christians talk, even in frontof an abortion clink, about adoption.42000:32:45.900 --> 00:32:49.460Right. They use things like,you know, will take your baby,42100:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.059give your baby up for adoption.Are Those words and important? The words42200:32:52.059 --> 00:32:54.779that we use, and we're talkingabout adoption in that context, important.42300:32:55.500 --> 00:33:01.369They are so important. You know, the average person means no harm by42400:33:01.450 --> 00:33:06.250what they're saying, but I willtell you, if you're dealing with a42500:33:06.410 --> 00:33:12.009woman who is abortion minded, everyword that you say is important because a42600:33:12.049 --> 00:33:15.200lot of times we're dealing with avery short period of time when we are42700:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.920counseling with them. I will giveyou the biggest verbiage that is probably used,42800:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.160or most widely used, that isincorrect and people don't mean anything by42900:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.509it, but it is who it'ssomething really need to change. When someone43000:33:29.750 --> 00:33:34.589says put put your baby up foradoption, yeah, I cringe. I43100:33:34.710 --> 00:33:37.950absolutely cringe. As an adoptive mom, you know how I help people to43200:33:38.029 --> 00:33:42.339understand that. Never to say thatis I say, you know, you43300:33:42.539 --> 00:33:46.900put groceries up on the field,you do not put a child up for43400:33:46.900 --> 00:33:52.539adoption. We are talking about asoul here. We are talking about a43500:33:52.740 --> 00:33:58.410living human being. And so andI'm probably extra sensitive because I've got this43600:33:58.650 --> 00:34:02.410child who, you know, ourfamilies always just celebrated adoption, but I43700:34:02.490 --> 00:34:07.730always wanted to be careful that shefelt and always knew that God had a43800:34:07.809 --> 00:34:12.639plan for her life and she's exactlywhere she needs to be. I never43900:34:12.719 --> 00:34:15.960wanted her to feel less then.Does that makes sense? I wanted to.44000:34:15.159 --> 00:34:20.960I wanted her to know that thisis exactive I had for her life.44100:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.389I would say like even using theword unwanted pregnancy. I know it's44200:34:27.429 --> 00:34:32.429a lot of those probably have usedto. Maybe saying unplanned pregnancy is probably44300:34:32.469 --> 00:34:37.980a better verbiage, and that caseis when you all grows up hearing unwanted44400:34:38.099 --> 00:34:45.820pregnancy. That's a that's a hardthing sometimes for our minds to comprehend what44500:34:45.940 --> 00:34:49.019they may feel like. They feltlike they were own wanted. I will44600:34:49.059 --> 00:34:53.250tell you. You know in bothof you know our adoption story. She44700:34:53.489 --> 00:34:58.530was so, so wanted. Imean our family prayed for her. We44800:34:58.530 --> 00:35:00.969didn't know who she was going tobe. Her pregnancy, you know,44900:35:01.170 --> 00:35:05.969with her birth mom, was unplanned, that she was so wanted. And45000:35:06.130 --> 00:35:09.719these children, they are, youknow, unfortunately, their mothers are taking45100:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.920them into abortion clients. There are. There are thousands and actually one point45200:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.840two million couples in America right noware waiting for an adopted child. So45300:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.269they are very wanted. So letme ask you just how you said don't45400:35:25.309 --> 00:35:29.469say put a child up for adoption, but I'm not sure. I might45500:35:29.469 --> 00:35:31.949have missed it. But what dowe say? What are the better things45600:35:32.070 --> 00:35:37.500to say? Okay, so whatI really like to say is place a45700:35:37.539 --> 00:35:44.380child into an adoptive family, becausewhen you know about how like just change45800:35:44.460 --> 00:35:46.300is your whole feeling, doesn't it? When you hear that like place a45900:35:46.300 --> 00:35:51.369child compared to put up for adopt? When I could, I just saw46000:35:51.449 --> 00:35:54.650that. Rely remember the moment thatour little girl was literally placed into my46100:35:54.809 --> 00:36:00.050arms the first time, right,and it's such a more of a loving,46200:36:00.329 --> 00:36:06.079gentle approach. And remember, ourwords are so important around the subject,46300:36:06.159 --> 00:36:12.599because this is a highly emotional subjector mom or abortion minded. HMM.46400:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.960Yeah, so even playing in thearms of another loving family is it's46500:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.469maybe a way to describe it.Yeah, or placed into an adoptive family,46600:36:22.510 --> 00:36:24.150as usually. You know how Isay that. You know, we46700:36:24.230 --> 00:36:28.989actually just did a podcast last weekabout words and how words matter, the46800:36:29.030 --> 00:36:31.980words that we use in front ofthe abortion center and how we even the46900:36:32.019 --> 00:36:37.059word like abortion center versus abortion mealor abortion clinic and all these words.47000:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.780The words do matter and also weneed to understand with the words that we47100:36:40.860 --> 00:36:46.610use, they do carry weight andthey can convey a picture and also words47200:36:46.889 --> 00:36:52.409can empower. So when we're talkingabout placing your child, we're talking about47300:36:52.409 --> 00:36:54.690we're almost empowering choice. You peopletalk about me. Yeah, choice as47400:36:54.730 --> 00:37:00.440opposed to giving up your child.You are placing your child, taken up47500:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.920right, exactly, choosing and placing. Because, yeah, the real pro47600:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.679choice people are the people who arefor life. Right, we're about choice.47700:37:08.679 --> 00:37:14.159Yeah, the abortion industry, PlanParenthood, pro abortion people, it's47800:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.510all about abortion. Right. There'sno choices that are available. But if47900:37:16.550 --> 00:37:20.590you look at I've even said itbefore, listen, the pro choice really48000:37:21.590 --> 00:37:23.309people out here on the sidewalk,because we're offering you real choices. You48100:37:23.389 --> 00:37:28.230can part your baby, you canplace your child for adoption, you can48200:37:28.989 --> 00:37:32.300within adoption. There's those three choicesyou broke down, open adoption, semi48300:37:32.380 --> 00:37:37.420open adoption and a close adoption.So there's even more choices within that realm.48400:37:37.940 --> 00:37:39.460And so it's just awesome to beable to my mind, the words48500:37:39.500 --> 00:37:45.969I hear you saying are words thatempower these mothers to to choose. That's48600:37:46.010 --> 00:37:50.449right. And let me ask you. Sometimes we empower them to the point48700:37:50.530 --> 00:37:52.610this. I have seen, andI wonder if you have seen it,48800:37:52.769 --> 00:37:58.760where maybe adoption is mentioned, becausethey've painted such oblique picture to me and48900:37:59.199 --> 00:38:05.280and said they really cannot have thischild and they have been so convicted in49000:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.880the same ways that you mentioned,through the conviction of the terrible sin of49100:38:08.960 --> 00:38:15.389what they're about to do and throughempowering statements, and they choose then to49200:38:15.750 --> 00:38:22.550parent rather than to place their childin the arms of another loving adoptive family.49300:38:22.869 --> 00:38:28.380Have you seen that? Does thathappen with you or? Okay,49400:38:28.420 --> 00:38:31.300so are you mainly just asking if, like, if a woman has been49500:38:31.380 --> 00:38:37.420presented with the adoption option and thenshe kind of walks on that path for49600:38:37.539 --> 00:38:39.739wound, then she choose as toparent? Is that what you're asking?49700:38:39.820 --> 00:38:43.690Have I seen some now sometimes walkingdown that path for a while? We49800:38:43.849 --> 00:38:45.849did just have someone, we interviewedsomeone by the name of Ebony that we49900:38:45.929 --> 00:38:50.449did a podcast, who was goingto place your children, her child for50000:38:50.530 --> 00:38:55.079adoption and then she she just camethrough, through the Gospel and through falling50100:38:55.119 --> 00:38:59.400in love with the baby she wascarrying, she decided to parent the child50200:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.360instead. But sometimes immediately they'll besaying, I'm going to kill this baby.50300:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.239Then they'll be saying, oh,they'll hear about adoption, but then50400:39:06.280 --> 00:39:12.550they'll be so convicted by by whatwe're saying, the truth of the Gospel,50500:39:12.630 --> 00:39:16.190whatever, they and their hearts willgo then to parenting and I honestly50600:39:16.230 --> 00:39:21.389I've seen that more in my experience. That's what I see. They'll go50700:39:21.550 --> 00:39:27.860from abortion to parenting more readily thanfrom abortion to adoption. So I guess50800:39:27.860 --> 00:39:30.659I'm asking, are you've seen somethingdifferent, or is that what you see?50900:39:31.260 --> 00:39:37.380I seek the same thing that you'reseeing, but I probably obviously see51000:39:37.420 --> 00:39:43.730the other component of going into adoption, because now our ministry is nationwide,51100:39:43.769 --> 00:39:47.010so I get calls from all over. But yes, I actually worked with51200:39:47.090 --> 00:39:51.769Evany and yeah, it was that'sright, that's right. Yeah, that51300:39:51.969 --> 00:39:57.199wasn't it was amazing, amazing situationand she came through that wonderfully and that's51400:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.480a great example of I would saya majority of the time what we do51500:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.519see is someone who's in that crisismode, not seeing a way out,51600:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.789feeling like they can't parent, I'mgoing to go forward this abortion that,51700:40:10.070 --> 00:40:15.909and I talked extensively with her aboutadoption and that was when I saw the51800:40:16.070 --> 00:40:22.260soft putting occur and I felt inmy heart that she was going to probably51900:40:22.300 --> 00:40:27.500end up parenting that child. ButI knew that the Holy Spirit was telling52000:40:27.539 --> 00:40:30.139me to give her that option ofadoption. It was the right timing and52100:40:30.739 --> 00:40:35.260through that, I think, afterwe sip through that, you know many,52200:40:35.340 --> 00:40:38.090many times, she was able tosee herself in a position where she52300:40:38.409 --> 00:40:43.809could parent that filed and that's whatI see to Vicky. But because I52400:40:43.969 --> 00:40:46.929do deal with a lot of situationsfor people across the nation, will call52500:40:47.170 --> 00:40:52.559when when a woman has probably eithertried to go to an abortion clinic already52600:40:52.599 --> 00:40:58.760as an appointment scheduled fairly soon,or they're in a situation where they're they're52700:40:58.800 --> 00:41:02.239calling on behalf of their daughter orgranddaughter. I would say I'm in a52800:41:02.320 --> 00:41:07.949unique situation because I'm able to talkdirectly to them about adoption from the get52900:41:07.070 --> 00:41:10.550go because they know who they're calling. But if I was on the sidewalk53000:41:10.670 --> 00:41:17.070situation what you just said is muchmore likely to occur. Yeah, so53100:41:17.309 --> 00:41:21.579I hope for people listening, wehadn't, you know, we haven't tried53200:41:21.699 --> 00:41:27.059to paint like this bleak picture thatadoption stories never happened and that, you53300:41:27.139 --> 00:41:31.300know, obviously don't want to discourageanyone from offering adoption. I just think53400:41:31.460 --> 00:41:37.130it helps people to understand an appropriatetime and that adoption, even though it's53500:41:37.170 --> 00:41:42.010this wonderful thing, it's not alwaysappropriate to share about. Are there any53600:41:42.010 --> 00:41:45.090stories that you have, just sowe can encourage people who are listening,53700:41:45.849 --> 00:41:50.440of MOMS who've decided to place theirchildren? Obviously, you guys story to53800:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.840but you've walked with Mother's, you'vewalked with parents that want to adopt.53900:41:54.880 --> 00:41:59.679Their stories that you can share.They can encourage people that adoptions actually do54000:41:59.920 --> 00:42:04.429take place in this in this realmof ministry. Yeah, we well,54100:42:04.469 --> 00:42:08.429I'll give you a personal an exampleof that. So I would say I'm54200:42:08.469 --> 00:42:14.269I goingness. Probably one of thefirst few years I was doing sidewalk ministry,54300:42:14.349 --> 00:42:16.539I was out in front of theabortion clinic. I was on the54400:42:17.019 --> 00:42:22.579sound system, on the microphone,and I saw a young woman going into54500:42:22.739 --> 00:42:28.420the clinic and, you know,just started really giving the Gospel over that54600:42:28.659 --> 00:42:35.010sound system. She was inside formaybe two or three minutes and when she54700:42:35.170 --> 00:42:37.369came out I just expected her togo straight to her car, maybe get54800:42:37.449 --> 00:42:39.969something out of her car, putsomething in, I'm not sure. And54900:42:40.090 --> 00:42:45.760do you know, she walks straightover to me on that microphone, which55000:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.480is a pretty long walk. Imean it's not a short walk. You55100:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.360know they've gone. They got sometime to change her mind. What they55200:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.920want to talk to you or notsure. And we talked for a few55300:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.829mis she said I heard what youwere saying on the microphone and I remember55400:42:58.869 --> 00:43:01.110I was I was saying I wasgetting the Gospel, but I was often55500:43:01.150 --> 00:43:07.469talking about the different options and soI mean what's associated with these of those55600:43:07.550 --> 00:43:10.150options? And she said, Iheard what you're saying I want to know55700:43:10.349 --> 00:43:15.739more about you, know what youcan offer, and I felt very lad55800:43:16.059 --> 00:43:21.579to then talk to her about adoptionthe as she wanted to know what the55900:43:21.619 --> 00:43:27.099options were. That she was fiveweeks pregnant, so very, very early.56000:43:27.809 --> 00:43:30.610I walked with her throughout her entirepregnancy. She ended up placing that56100:43:30.690 --> 00:43:37.329child for adoption and that was dueto that ten minutes on the sidewalk.56200:43:37.650 --> 00:43:43.559He had really, you know,heard what adoption was, didn't understand what56300:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.679her options were, but knew thatshe could not parents. So I think56400:43:46.760 --> 00:43:52.039that's a great example of kind ofgetting that trust of the woman, seeing56500:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.190where their thought processes are and thengiving them the true options. That,56600:43:57.309 --> 00:44:00.710honor God, there's only two,you know. Yeah, I disagree with56700:44:00.989 --> 00:44:06.510ministries that I give a woman threeoptions. That makes me very, very56800:44:07.670 --> 00:44:13.860only offer them abortion as an option, adoption, imparent yeah right, yeah,56900:44:14.260 --> 00:44:16.260I really disagree with that. Sowhen I'm when I'm counseling with a57000:44:16.300 --> 00:44:20.780woman on the sidewalk or in theRV, I make it very clear that57100:44:20.900 --> 00:44:23.690there are only two options, honorhad, and I always tell them that57200:44:23.849 --> 00:44:28.449that on our God and and Inever talk about abortion from that point board.57300:44:28.489 --> 00:44:31.329Always let them know that it's eitherparenting or adoption. That may be57400:44:32.289 --> 00:44:37.840some of the reason why I findthat the women I've worked with have gone57500:44:37.880 --> 00:44:43.719on to adopt. More is one. I think the Lord gave that testimony57600:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.599to our family. And then secondlyis when you start talking like that that57700:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.119there's only two options it you know, it takes that other option off the57800:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.750table, because what I'm really seethe Lord doing because obviously you know,57900:44:57.070 --> 00:45:00.949you guys know, and I knowthe Lord's heart was for that mother to58000:45:00.070 --> 00:45:06.269mother that child. Okay, andso that's the first option that we want58100:45:06.309 --> 00:45:08.820to always talk to them about.But the other option, if it's just58200:45:09.380 --> 00:45:14.500not feasible for her to parent,the only other option, in my eyes,58300:45:14.739 --> 00:45:17.460and I think in the Lord's eyes, is a option. So I'm58400:45:17.579 --> 00:45:23.130never mentioning abortion from that point forward, other than to tell them if you58500:45:23.250 --> 00:45:28.369go forward with this, you knowthis is what you can expect. Yeah,58600:45:28.849 --> 00:45:31.409yeah, of course, never validating. I mean, in reality,58700:45:32.170 --> 00:45:36.079is abortion an option for them?Surely they can go in there, they58800:45:36.119 --> 00:45:37.880can kill their child, but wedon't validate that as an option, just58900:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.079like, you know, a motherof a three year old, is it59000:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.039an option for her to take thatthree year old child and throw that child59100:45:45.079 --> 00:45:46.920off a bridge. She could chooseto do that, but there's going to59200:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.829be consequences and we would never validatethat as an option. And that's what59300:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.710people you know, I understand somewell meeting people within pregnancy centers and whatever,59400:45:55.789 --> 00:46:00.949want to seem neutral, but wehave to understand that there is no59500:46:00.110 --> 00:46:04.070neutral ground. We're dealing with,dealing children in the womb right like.59600:46:04.190 --> 00:46:07.659We've got to take a stand andwe've gone to speak what God's word says,59700:46:07.139 --> 00:46:09.420and when we do that, Godhonors that. Like you're, like59800:46:09.500 --> 00:46:13.739you're talking about. I mean,I've actually seen Jessica, because you volunteered59900:46:13.780 --> 00:46:17.059here on the sidewalks with us inCharlotte for years and I've seen you.60000:46:17.460 --> 00:46:22.929I've seen little block life, yourdaughter who you guys adopted, and I've60100:46:22.969 --> 00:46:27.889seen you share her story with abortionminded women on the sidewalk or even car60200:46:28.090 --> 00:46:31.369side, and I've seen God justuse her, you know, not not60300:46:31.530 --> 00:46:36.360using her as a pawn or anythinglike that, but uses or sweet little60400:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.519face, Ye, to soften hearts. Yeah, I will tell you one60500:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.320story, because I know we gota wrap up, but just because the60600:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.039story I remember about you and Blithewas being on the sidewalk and a one60700:46:46.119 --> 00:46:52.269of the pro socalled pro choice peoplewith his sign came over to really protest60800:46:52.429 --> 00:46:55.269what you were doing. You weretalking car side with someone, I think,60900:46:55.429 --> 00:47:00.269and you finished with that woman andturned to him with that sweet blythe61000:47:00.429 --> 00:47:05.179next to you, and told himblythe story. And that man, that's61100:47:05.219 --> 00:47:08.300the only time I have ever seenthis happen. He took his sign,61200:47:08.460 --> 00:47:12.380he what he didn't say a word. His eyes teared up. He took61300:47:12.460 --> 00:47:15.809his sign, he put the signin the car and drove away and I61400:47:15.929 --> 00:47:20.010never saw him again. I rememberthat day. I remember and I will61500:47:20.090 --> 00:47:23.090tell you, guys, when youknow she has been with me on the61600:47:23.170 --> 00:47:29.489sidewalks. Her testimony is so powerful. I feel like God does use those61700:47:29.769 --> 00:47:36.800that have been spared from such anatrocity as abortion speak louder than then we61800:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.079could ever dream of speaking. SometimesI have seen that when we've been able61900:47:40.119 --> 00:47:45.949to stop people car side before theyenter into the parking lot of the abortion62000:47:45.070 --> 00:47:50.989clinic. That is such a powerfultest stimony of being able to see a62100:47:51.110 --> 00:47:55.269child that was spared from a murderin a building just like the one that62200:47:55.309 --> 00:48:00.260they're getting ready to enter into.There's there's a breaking that happens. I've62300:48:00.300 --> 00:48:06.420seen some of the biggest men inthe world, the toughest men, literally62400:48:06.659 --> 00:48:10.659break down when life has shown themthe fetal models and hold them part of62500:48:10.780 --> 00:48:15.289her testimony with me there with her, of course. Yeah, and it's62600:48:15.329 --> 00:48:20.570unbelievable how how God can reach someoneby a child who's been spared from that,62700:48:20.809 --> 00:48:23.610when they get, when they catchthe glimpse of what their child will62800:48:23.650 --> 00:48:27.960be in just a few years.Yeah, I remember you saying to him,62900:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.480can you look at this space,and we're all looking at precious supplies63000:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.719face, and you say, canyou look at this face and tell her63100:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.920she should never have lived? Right? And it's that really is a question.63200:48:39.079 --> 00:48:45.389I asked the quote unquote pro choicersa lot, as well as the63300:48:45.469 --> 00:48:50.349ones that are coming to the clinicto abort their children, because I've never63400:48:50.469 --> 00:48:54.739had one person take me up onthat right and I've I've come up against63500:48:54.739 --> 00:49:01.500probably some of the toughest, mostwicked pro choice protesters, whatever you want63600:49:01.500 --> 00:49:06.019to call them, in the world, and they cannot do it. You63700:49:06.179 --> 00:49:13.929just can't. And everybody inherently knowsthat every little boy and girl deserves life,63800:49:14.889 --> 00:49:19.010and so so I just feel likeGod is moving and we are so63900:49:19.170 --> 00:49:23.170thankful for what you guys are doingcities for life and training others. Hopefully,64000:49:23.170 --> 00:49:28.719those that are listening to this podcastwill have a fire letting them to64100:49:29.360 --> 00:49:34.159get out on the sidewalks across thisnation and really be the hands and feet64200:49:34.199 --> 00:49:38.230of Jesus and we you know,anytime you're telling your neighbor that what they're64300:49:38.230 --> 00:49:43.030getting ready to do is sin,and in this case it's murder, and64400:49:43.269 --> 00:49:46.269you're doing that in love. Thatis that is the deepest love that you64500:49:46.349 --> 00:49:49.909can give her someone is that theynot go down, you know, that64600:49:50.030 --> 00:49:53.980path of destruction. Yeah, aman will say it, Jessica. If64700:49:54.059 --> 00:49:57.820folks that are listening to this podcastwant to get in touch with you,64800:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.260how do they get in touch you? What's the best way to connect with64900:50:00.340 --> 00:50:04.300with you and with option adoption?Sure, well, we have a website.65000:50:04.460 --> 00:50:10.530It's option adoptioncom and then we areon facebook as well and you can65100:50:10.570 --> 00:50:17.090find us with under option adoption andcan message us if there's, you know,65200:50:17.289 --> 00:50:21.679any type of questions that they have. We work mainly, again,65300:50:21.760 --> 00:50:24.840with the abortion minded men and womenand we get a lot of questions from65400:50:24.840 --> 00:50:30.239families. If we have you knowchildren that need to be placed into adoptive65500:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.909families. That's not a component ofour mistry, but we can direct them65600:50:36.070 --> 00:50:42.429to wonderful Christian adoption agencies and Christianadoption lawyers to kind of help them on65700:50:42.550 --> 00:50:45.309that journey. That's the route thatGod's calling their family to. Yeah,65800:50:45.590 --> 00:50:49.230that's good. I appreciate that.So, yeah, I guess connect with65900:50:49.309 --> 00:50:55.099Jessica Option adoptioncom. But Yeah,Jessica, we appreciate your time, appreciate66000:50:55.139 --> 00:51:00.099you sharing your testimony, appreciate yourheart. I know that just having you66100:51:00.460 --> 00:51:02.059as a part of our ministry,as you were here in Charlotte's, just66200:51:02.139 --> 00:51:06.769such a blessing, as blessing seeingwhat you guys are doing and just hearing66300:51:07.289 --> 00:51:09.610what got us doing through you guys. And it's when encourage those who are66400:51:09.690 --> 00:51:14.489listening to go to our website,because Jessica talked a little bit about sidewalk66500:51:14.530 --> 00:51:17.409counseling and Nashally, and so westarted the sidewalks for life websites. I66600:51:17.489 --> 00:51:22.199walks, the number four LIFECOM andpeople can go there and get equipped to66700:51:22.199 --> 00:51:24.400do sidewalk counseling, get trained upto be a sidewalk counsel in your area66800:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.880and we hope that's a blessing you. Hope this podcast was blessing you.66900:51:28.960 --> 00:51:37.789Guys. Please share it and untilnext time, God, bless me for67000:51:37.030 --> 00:51:50.179love. Give me our loft forgratitude. I know it will cost me67100:51:50.380 --> 00:51:58.179my life. No, Sing's tooprecious. And some you