Aug. 27, 2020

Abortion Clinic Escort Becomes A Sidewalk Counselor

Abortion Clinic Escort Becomes A Sidewalk Counselor

God can change any heart and in this episode Vicky and I Daniel have the pleasure of interviewing a man who used to stand in opposition to them at the local abortion center. Before the Lord changed his heart Kevin worked as a prochoice clinic escort...


God can change any heart and in this episode Vicky and I Daniel have the pleasure of interviewing a man who used to stand in opposition to them at the local abortion center. Before the Lord changed his heart Kevin worked as a prochoice clinic escort at the busiest abortion center in Charlotte. In this interview, Kevin shares his experience as a pro-abortion advocate and how the Lord called him to stand for life at the very clinic that he once stood for death.

www.sidewalks4life.com

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me. 2 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.150 Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This episode, Vicki and I 3 00:00:10.189 --> 00:00:13.589 do an interview with Kevin, who was a pro choice clinic escort at the 4 00:00:13.630 --> 00:00:17.589 abortion center that we minister it and now he's a pro life style walk counselor. 5 00:00:17.989 --> 00:00:20.710 We think this episode will be a blessing you guys, so stay tuned. 6 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:37.250 I felt show passish touch your use. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro 7 00:00:37.369 --> 00:00:41.210 life podcast. Appreciate you guys who join us for this podcast. Appreciate you 8 00:00:41.329 --> 00:00:44.850 guys, really, really appreciate you guys that share this podcast. Please do 9 00:00:45.009 --> 00:00:48.409 that and leave reviews for us. We'd like to know what you think about 10 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:52.640 this podcast and at the end of this podcast I'll give you my email address 11 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:54.960 and Vick you will give you her email address. You can reach out to 12 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:58.960 us and just give us any ideas for suggestions for a future podcast that we 13 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.439 can do, because we would like to cover subjects that you guys would like 14 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:04.670 for us to cover, not just ones that come on our radar. So 15 00:01:04.909 --> 00:01:07.549 just let us know if there's any subjects you guys would like for us to 16 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.189 cover. We'd love to just tackle those from a Biblical perspective, a Gospel 17 00:01:11.230 --> 00:01:17.390 Center perspective. But as we go into this podcast, this this episode for 18 00:01:17.469 --> 00:01:21.019 this week, what you guys just to be cued into some of the things 19 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.780 that we're dealing with. And I know that nationally a lot of people are 20 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:30.099 dealing with pro abortion opposition. It seems with the election cycles people with pro 21 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:34.489 abortion opinions get louder and louder and of course they want their candidate to win. 22 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:38.250 This has never been and, by God's grace, will never be a 23 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:42.170 political podcast. So we're not talking politics. We're talking about the nitty gritty 24 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:46.409 stuff. We're talking about the Gospel centered stuff. Even we did our podcast 25 00:01:46.450 --> 00:01:49.879 a couple of weeks ago about the pro abortion opposition and how to deal with 26 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.560 that, we came from a Gospel centered perspective. But this episode, we 27 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.280 think will be a real blessing to you guys, because we have a guy 28 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.510 who himself was a former clinic escort at the local abortion clinic here on the 29 00:02:00.629 --> 00:02:04.989 trope drive in Charlotte. His name is Kevin. We're going to introduce him 30 00:02:04.989 --> 00:02:07.909 and just a men or have him introduced himself. But we think this is 31 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:08.870 going to be a blessing to you guys. Think it's going to be a 32 00:02:08.990 --> 00:02:14.150 unique perspective to hear from someone who was there on that side, so called 33 00:02:14.310 --> 00:02:16.740 side of the fence, and now has come on to the pro life side 34 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:21.460 of the fence and is actually volunteering with us on a regular basis and a 35 00:02:21.500 --> 00:02:23.060 real blessing to have him. He's been a blessing to the ministry over the 36 00:02:23.139 --> 00:02:27.780 past couple of months. But, Kevin, just introduce yourself real quick and 37 00:02:28.180 --> 00:02:31.810 and I don't know we'll get into some questions, but just you know what's 38 00:02:31.810 --> 00:02:36.409 going on with you and your family, your husband, your father, those 39 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:40.370 sort of things. Yep, so I'm Kevin, thirty years old. Grew 40 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:47.360 up in and around the Charlotte area in a church attending conservative household. Professed 41 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:51.240 to be a believer from the time I was a kid. Was Involved in 42 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:58.280 various ministries with homelessness and apologetics, training and all that kind of stuff from 43 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.750 the time I was a kid. Long Story Short, I spent about ten 44 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:07.669 years in pretty serious rebellion against the God that I professed to love as a 45 00:03:07.710 --> 00:03:13.139 child. Ended up ended up married several years ago. My wife and I 46 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:16.379 have a daughter and a few a couple of years ago. Well, a 47 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:22.900 few years ago, my worldview started to kind of shift back towards my roots 48 00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:25.259 a little bit and through that process, a couple of years ago, I 49 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:31.770 came to a abrupt realization that that God was still real and that he was 50 00:03:31.969 --> 00:03:35.370 calling me back to him. And, you know, through that process, 51 00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:38.930 ended up back either back in, depending on how you look at it, 52 00:03:39.009 --> 00:03:44.960 either back in a relationship with the Lord or in a real relationship with the 53 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.759 Lord for the first time. And I don't, you know, I don't, 54 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:52.199 I don't know everything. I just yeah, I just know that God 55 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.479 called me to himself. Yeah, that's that's awesome. Well, I know 56 00:03:54.560 --> 00:04:00.150 we when we first got your application, I texted Daniel right away. Daniel, 57 00:04:00.189 --> 00:04:03.949 you will never believe this. This is this is a guy from the 58 00:04:04.069 --> 00:04:08.270 pro choice side that I don't all that stuff right off the bat. Yes, 59 00:04:08.349 --> 00:04:11.860 I don't even remember when it we did, and that that you were 60 00:04:12.219 --> 00:04:15.899 a pro choice has scored and now you were wanting to volunteer on the pro 61 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:19.180 life side, and our initial thought was a he's a plant, we're gonna 62 00:04:19.180 --> 00:04:23.980 wear he's a mold. Yeah, we are in, watch out of might 63 00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:27.329 be. And Yeah, we were very careful, but you were the real 64 00:04:27.449 --> 00:04:30.329 deal. We can we discovered pretty quickly that you really had a heart for 65 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:34.410 the Lord and for this work. So so you came. Yeah, you 66 00:04:34.490 --> 00:04:38.250 know, you said, I am I want to volunteer with you guys. 67 00:04:38.410 --> 00:04:42.519 So here you are, coming from the the other side to Yep. So 68 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:48.199 tell us about what brought you to think that you wanted to be a pro 69 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:58.230 choice escort. So, growing up as a teenager and and on, from 70 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:02.230 the time that I knew what abortion was in the in the kind of context 71 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:06.259 that I grew up in, I would have definitely professed to be pro life. 72 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:11.180 As long as I was a a Christian kid in church, I would 73 00:05:11.180 --> 00:05:14.579 have always said abortion is wrong and all that stuff. And, like I 74 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:18.939 said, to summarize a very, very long story, once I got out 75 00:05:18.939 --> 00:05:27.930 from under my parents and became my own person, I pretty much immediately started 76 00:05:28.009 --> 00:05:30.970 rebelling against God, and that's not an uncommon thing. I was in and 77 00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:35.759 out of relationships, I was in and out of poor lifestyle choices and, 78 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:44.040 of course, my my worldview was shifting all the time, further and further 79 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.639 away from what I had grown up in. And you know, it wasn't 80 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.350 long. It wasn't. It wasn't even I wasn't even twenty before I basically 81 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:56.750 would start saying that I was agnostic or that I was an atheist or that 82 00:05:56.829 --> 00:06:00.350 I didn't care or whatever, just depending on how it was dealing that day. 83 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:05.899 And so with that comes the the ideology that, like the the pro 84 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:12.660 abortion advocates out there on the sidewalk will say things like it's a woman's choice 85 00:06:12.779 --> 00:06:16.259 and all that sort of stuff. All the all the pro abort rhetoric kind 86 00:06:16.259 --> 00:06:20.930 of started to seep into me. And then there was some personal conviction that 87 00:06:21.050 --> 00:06:28.769 was involved in that as well, because I I was personally a, I 88 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.050 guess you could say, an accomplice to abortion. Yeah, I in my 89 00:06:31.370 --> 00:06:34.439 early S. again, long story short, not going into all kinds of 90 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.680 details or anything like that, but my wife, who is personally as very 91 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:44.240 pro life and is is a saved person now, for sure, when we 92 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:48.069 were younger, before we were married, there were two different instances where she 93 00:06:48.269 --> 00:06:55.069 went through with abortions and both of those children were conceived by me, and 94 00:06:55.829 --> 00:07:01.620 I passively supported her decision to do that and essentially put her in the position 95 00:07:01.779 --> 00:07:06.779 to feel like that was the option that she had, because it two different 96 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:12.660 points in the first couple of years of our relationship. I impregnated her and 97 00:07:12.699 --> 00:07:16.129 then abandoned her twice. I mean within with within less than two years, 98 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:23.290 I did it twice, and neither of those times did I get her pregnant 99 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:25.610 and then say well, you're pregnant, I'm leaving. That's not how it 100 00:07:25.689 --> 00:07:30.879 happened. I was I was in a Um, a pretty hardcore stage of 101 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:36.680 selfishness and and was just trying to get away from any sort of responsibility or 102 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:42.920 anything that that I had to take care of and just live for myself and 103 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.670 do what I wanted to do. And so, though, the Times that 104 00:07:46.790 --> 00:07:49.790 I would get to a point where I could just jump ship and leave to 105 00:07:49.829 --> 00:07:54.430 go do my own thing just happened to coincide with pregnancies that I had caused 106 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.430 subsequently, and so she would find herself, you know, again, two 107 00:07:58.470 --> 00:08:01.579 different times, slightly different circumstances, but two different times in the first couple 108 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:07.420 of years of US knowing each other, she found herself more or less abandoned 109 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:11.060 by me and pregnant. and to back up a little bit further, our 110 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:18.250 daughter is biologically her daughter. I have more or less adopted her as my 111 00:08:18.410 --> 00:08:22.089 own and she is my daughter. She doesn't have another father. The the 112 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:26.089 man who contributed to her biologically, has never been in the picture and she's 113 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:31.680 never met him. But this in this time period of two thousand and twelve, 114 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.440 two thousand and thirteen, I had not made that commitment to be the 115 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:41.360 father for this young girl yet and through a series of messy circumstances, my 116 00:08:41.470 --> 00:08:45.669 wife didn't even have custody of her. So my wife's pregnant alone, doesn't 117 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:52.389 even have access to the child that she already has. And and because of 118 00:08:52.629 --> 00:08:58.019 my unwillingness to step up and do the right thing, two abortions occurred. 119 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:03.580 So fast forward to two thousand and sixteen, when I got involved with the 120 00:09:03.620 --> 00:09:09.340 the pro abortion escort side of things. My wife and I got married in 121 00:09:09.379 --> 00:09:13.889 two thousand and fourteen, committed to each other and started working really, really 122 00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:18.570 hard to to get custody of our daughter back and to clean up our lives 123 00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:24.799 and and kind of get settled. But at that time I was still in 124 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:31.080 open rebellion against God. I wasn't in the sort of evil and devious lifestyle 125 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.919 that I had been in a few years prior. But I mean as of 126 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:37.240 two thousand and sixteen, I was still like, you know, I don't 127 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.070 care about anything God related. We're all just meet bags and nothing matters really, 128 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:45.309 and I'm just gonna I'm just going to do what's best for me and 129 00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:52.350 my family. Basically, I was drifting more towards more towards a conservative worldview 130 00:09:52.750 --> 00:09:56.779 and more towards following kind of Christian morality and stuff like that, but at 131 00:09:56.820 --> 00:10:00.860 the time I would have just called myself a cultural Christian. I wasn't really 132 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:05.860 a spiritual person. But anyways, it doesn't matter if you accept responsibility for 133 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.610 what you've done. At a heart level, you are going to be convicted 134 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:15.370 by the things that you've done. And my way of dealing with the conviction 135 00:10:15.570 --> 00:10:20.649 that I had, based on seeing the trauma that my wife had been going 136 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.360 through four years at this point, based on the abortions that I I consider 137 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:30.279 myself to be a culprit of. Right I I felt like I had to 138 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:37.190 do something, and the something that I landed on initially was to get involved 139 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:41.789 in the pro choice side of things and double down and say there's nothing wrong 140 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:45.429 with it and I'm going to go out there and fight for these women and 141 00:10:45.590 --> 00:10:48.870 for their right to do whatever they want with their bodies without somebody interfering with 142 00:10:48.909 --> 00:10:52.580 them and telling them that what they're doing is sinful. Yes, that's interesting. 143 00:10:52.659 --> 00:11:00.340 So you're seeing your wife suffering from the abortions and your your decision was 144 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:05.330 to go and make sure that other women would have that choice available. Right, 145 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:11.090 right. My my intent, I think, was to try to insulate 146 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:18.000 her from feeling bad about what she had done by doubling down and trying to 147 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.480 fight for the idea that what she had done was right. Yeah, which 148 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:28.679 didn't work. That's an interesting dynamic and I don't want to at all pretend 149 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.190 like if there are pro choice people pro abortion people they're listening to pretend like 150 00:11:33.470 --> 00:11:37.110 the we think everyone on that side of the fence is sort of one monolithic 151 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:41.070 group. So I don't want to put them all in one basket. But 152 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.309 in your experience, do you feel like, or just in your conversations with 153 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:48.860 those folks, that that's a lot of people's experience? It's almost like a 154 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:54.299 selfjustifying presence out there. I would expect that that my situation isn't totally unique. 155 00:11:54.299 --> 00:12:00.100 Yeah, I mean I'm sure there are dozens of different reasons that people, 156 00:12:00.259 --> 00:12:03.129 and mostly women, mostly young women, come out there to fight for 157 00:12:03.210 --> 00:12:09.970 the cause of abortion. But I have to I have to look at it 158 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:16.080 and think ultimately, everyone is being convicted in some way or another, whether 159 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.799 they realize it or not, and everybody has different ways of dealing with that 160 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:26.039 conviction. Some people deal with it by repenting and changing their lifestyle. Some 161 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.429 people deal with it the way I did initially, by doubled doubling down on 162 00:12:30.629 --> 00:12:33.789 the sin and trying to justify it and make it seem like you didn't do 163 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.870 anything wrong to begin with. Yeah, so I'm sure there's a bunch of 164 00:12:37.909 --> 00:12:41.190 different stories, though. Yeah, I just wondered if you're with your conversations 165 00:12:41.309 --> 00:12:45.740 with some of those folks, because obviously y'all had conversations, I would say. 166 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.740 I mean you weren't out there for years, you were out there for 167 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:52.500 just several weeks, right. I'm sure you had to conversation with those folks 168 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:56.779 and did you see a common theme in those conversations where it seemed that many 169 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:00.409 of the people that are on the pro choice have abortions in their past, 170 00:13:00.610 --> 00:13:03.129 or at least we're trying to justify abortions they've been a part of? So 171 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.049 it was kind of mixed and, like you said. I wasn't involved in 172 00:13:07.289 --> 00:13:13.240 that for a long period of time and I didn't get to know most of 173 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.519 the other people that I was without there very well. To be honest. 174 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.720 I mean a few hours at a time here and there. You don't really 175 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.200 get to know somebody that well very quickly. There were it was kind of 176 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.389 a mixed crowd. There were there were people out there who had who had 177 00:13:28.429 --> 00:13:31.029 had abortions in the PA. Asked and I could definitely see an aspect of 178 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:41.429 trying to justify that. There were people from the quote unquote, lgbt culture 179 00:13:41.429 --> 00:13:48.019 or community there who would see some solidarity with the quote unquote women's rights stuff 180 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:54.419 and basically fighting, I guess, like acting as allies as they were they 181 00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:58.649 would call themselves, and they were even, believe it or not, there 182 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:05.450 was one woman in particular who was there nearly every day around the time that 183 00:14:05.490 --> 00:14:07.850 I was out there, and she would actually tell you that she was a 184 00:14:07.970 --> 00:14:13.799 Catholic and that she didn't personally believe in abortion and that she personally would never 185 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:20.600 have an abortion, but that she believed in women's right to access to healthcare, 186 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.509 as she called it, or that there are just situations that none of 187 00:14:24.549 --> 00:14:30.429 us will ever understand and it's all in God's hands and if they need to 188 00:14:30.669 --> 00:14:33.710 terminate their pregnancies, that God will forgive them. Yeah, that which you 189 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:37.309 know. We've heard that passens of time. Yes, so as you're there 190 00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:43.899 with all of these people, we in some manner supporting abortion. was was 191 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:48.019 your conscience pricked it all? Were there things that you were thinking that, 192 00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.379 hey, I agree with that, or were you turning away from some of 193 00:14:52.419 --> 00:14:56.049 these thoughts and world world views? So my heart was pretty hard at the 194 00:14:56.090 --> 00:15:01.850 time, to be honest, and I I would have called myself a I 195 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:07.840 would have sided with the the lgbt community a lot at the time. And 196 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.600 and you speak about that. What it? What I aspect of it? 197 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:15.200 I'm curious to so feeling of persecution or what is it that? Well, 198 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:20.879 so it was personal for me because I was actually personally involved in the Gay 199 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.870 Trans Culture here in Charlotte for for quite a few years. That's another that's 200 00:15:24.870 --> 00:15:31.190 another rabbit hole into the dark history that is Kevin. Yeah, so because 201 00:15:31.309 --> 00:15:39.019 of my own experience and the the lifestyle that I had pursued for a time, 202 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.100 I would have considered myself one of those allies trying to defend people from 203 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:46.740 bigotry, I guess you could say. And did you look at at anti 204 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:50.129 abortion work as a type of bigotry then? Oh, yeah, yeah, 205 00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:54.570 yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, so you, Vicki, 206 00:15:54.690 --> 00:16:00.049 are actually the only person that I well, you and flip are the only 207 00:16:00.129 --> 00:16:06.159 two people that I specifically can remember seeing and hearing out on the sidewalk. 208 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:07.960 And I mean, like I said, at the time that I was out 209 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.120 there doing that, my my heart was pretty hard on the subject and against 210 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:15.840 God, and I just thought you guys were just the worst people ever. 211 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:22.750 Like I thought you just I honestly couldn't put into words why I thought you 212 00:16:22.789 --> 00:16:26.230 were actually out there, but I just thought you guys were terrible, like 213 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:30.710 I thought that there was almost nothing worse that you that you could do than 214 00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:34.059 to be out there on the sidewalk shaming these women who had you just have 215 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:38.019 no resources and have nobody to help them, and all of the all of 216 00:16:38.059 --> 00:16:42.179 the justifications that you can think of. So, and was that common? 217 00:16:42.379 --> 00:16:47.100 was that the common perception of the people on the pro life side from the 218 00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:48.210 people on the pro choice side? It is, yeah, it is. 219 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:52.730 Yeah, it's very it's very black and white from what I from what I 220 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.889 saw personally. Yeah. So, yeah, one of the things that I've 221 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:02.519 encouraged our volunteers with is this idea that when they, when the pro choice, 222 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.039 when the pro abortion people, oppose you, they're not really opposing you 223 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:11.319 personally. They're opposing an idea. You represent to them what is wrong with 224 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:17.869 the world. Why? Christian SIS, gender male's and Republicans or whatever. 225 00:17:17.950 --> 00:17:19.789 They have in their mind that you represent, even if you're were the woman, 226 00:17:19.869 --> 00:17:23.630 and yeah, would the conservative White, Christian, SIS, gendered male 227 00:17:23.829 --> 00:17:30.019 is the enemy of everything that's right and good from that side. Is is 228 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:32.819 that true, though, in that mentality, is it? It's not really 229 00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:36.619 an attack on on individuals, on Vicki, for example, but only really 230 00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:38.859 an idea what you stand for. You stand for everything that's wrong with the 231 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:41.980 world or whatever. Is that kind of yeah, the the sense that you've 232 00:17:42.019 --> 00:17:45.250 gotten, it's being on that side. It's an aspect of the culture war. 233 00:17:45.650 --> 00:17:52.809 Yeah, for sure. And and ultimately what I was rebelling against and 234 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.970 fighting against, and I think that ultimately what a lot of the people that 235 00:17:56.009 --> 00:18:00.680 are involved in that on that side of the fence are there. They're not, 236 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.759 like you said, they're not rebelling against you specifically or, like me 237 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.480 specifically, they are angry at God. Yeah, ultimately is what well, 238 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.950 I was anyways, and from talking to other people that were involved in that, 239 00:18:17.069 --> 00:18:19.789 I can I can gather that sense to from from other people that I 240 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:25.309 saw. Yeah, so just going back just a little bit, and I 241 00:18:25.390 --> 00:18:29.859 think you told me this before, your involvement with the pro choice movement as 242 00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:32.460 a escort. And just for those who are listening to kind of paint a 243 00:18:32.539 --> 00:18:36.299 picture, and I think we did a little bit in our previous podcast episode 244 00:18:36.339 --> 00:18:41.650 about dealing with the pro abortion people biblically. The picture here at latrobe and 245 00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:44.890 it's like this in a couple of other abortion centers across the nation. I'm 246 00:18:44.890 --> 00:18:48.289 not sure about all of them, but some of them where there's folks that 247 00:18:48.369 --> 00:18:52.569 call themselves clinic escorts. So they typically have vests own, a pink vest 248 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:56.599 or a bright orange vest or a bright yellow vest. Kevin actually brought his 249 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.440 former vest with him to show it to us today. But they have their 250 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.200 vests own and their job is to escort the women from their car to the 251 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.480 door or from the sidewalk to the door of the abortion center, use an 252 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.309 umbrella to block them from being able to see or and engage with the pro 253 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:12.269 life people that are there. Yep, and then we have out here. 254 00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:15.910 So we've got those people to clinic escorts, and that's what you were, 255 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.069 you were in part. That's that's what I I was. I was one 256 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:22.670 of the escorts with an umbrella, walking women from the car to the door, 257 00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:26.259 yeah, and back if needed, if and if they would allow you 258 00:19:26.380 --> 00:19:30.059 to. Some of them didn't. Yeah, wanted thing to do with even 259 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:33.140 the people in the parking lot. Sure, and in you guys weren't encouraged 260 00:19:33.140 --> 00:19:37.059 at all. A matter of fact, you probably discourage from engaging with the 261 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:40.690 air quotes pro life protesters. Correct, are right. In the training, 262 00:19:40.769 --> 00:19:44.930 the little crash training thing that they did with a group of us when I 263 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:49.890 first started out, they essentially told us to to just provide support and a 264 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:55.119 shield to the quote unquote patients. Yeah, and two, more or less 265 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.720 ignore the people, the crazy people out on the sidewalk. Yes, as 266 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.519 the woman who was kind of the ring leader at the time, yeah, 267 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.549 said. Yeah, and so you were involved with that. The clinic escorting 268 00:20:07.589 --> 00:20:11.109 aspect. Here, though, there's kind of two aspects. From the pro 269 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:12.789 abortion people, there are those who are, I think they call themselves clinic 270 00:20:12.869 --> 00:20:18.230 defenders where they're actively engaging with us, actively like putting signs in our faces, 271 00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:22.859 yell and trying to engage in conversations. It's typically antagonistic, yes, 272 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.579 and it's designed to throw us off and get our focus on them and we 273 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:29.299 won't go there. But just so you guys who are listening kind of understand 274 00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:33.819 the picture, Kevin was involved in the clinic escorting aspect and in that aspect 275 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:38.650 and just walking the women from their car in this scenario, because they're pulling 276 00:20:38.690 --> 00:20:44.410 into the parking lot, to the door. Are there any conversations that you 277 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:48.490 had with the people walking them to the door that had to do with, 278 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:52.920 I don't know, maybe conversations that had you second guessing your presence there and 279 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.599 second guessing your support for abortion? Actually, there was almost no interaction. 280 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:03.440 Oh it, at least in my experience. The the vast majority of the 281 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:10.990 women that I would walk next to towards the building didn't really say anything at 282 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:15.710 all to me. Some of them would would wave you away and and basically 283 00:21:15.710 --> 00:21:18.019 say you don't I don't need any help, I'm good. Yeah, but 284 00:21:18.460 --> 00:21:25.099 really there was there was no there was no real interaction or conversation and that's 285 00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:30.619 another thing that we were discouraged from really interacting with these women at all. 286 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.930 We were just supposed to be there to be a again, a quote unquote 287 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:41.089 shield if wanted. Yeah. So, no, and and, to be 288 00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:45.769 honest with you, aside from noticing just how dark and sad the inside of 289 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:51.400 that building felt, because I do distinctly remember that. Yeah, I wanted 290 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.519 to go there and just kind of get your sense of all of that, 291 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:59.240 the atmosphere and and how it made you feel and then, ultimately, what 292 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:00.710 led you away from that place. So, yeah, keep on that vein. 293 00:22:00.869 --> 00:22:06.750 So the I don't know how it is now. I don't really notice 294 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:11.190 a lot of people that aren't either paid security guards or customers going in and 295 00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:15.940 out of the building. But I'm not just watching the parking lot escorts all 296 00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:19.740 morning or all afternoon. But at the time we were allowed to go inside 297 00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:25.259 to use the restroom in the lobby if we needed to, and we were 298 00:22:25.460 --> 00:22:26.980 basically instructed, you know, if you go in, just go in, 299 00:22:27.099 --> 00:22:30.529 come right back out. Don't, you know, interact with anybody. Leave 300 00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:36.529 everybody alone. And so I I've been inside of that building with the hand 301 00:22:36.609 --> 00:22:40.289 waiting room be crowded as you're what? Sometimes so you're seeing a whole lineup 302 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:42.210 or sometimes, yeah, clusters of women. Yeah, when you walk in 303 00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:45.279 the door there at the time, I don't know if they've changed anything and 304 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.640 in several years, but it was like a waiting room with chairs, basically 305 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:55.519 rows of chairs. We're kindle crying, would you see? I I'm more 306 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.519 or less tried to keep my head down and mind my own business because that's 307 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:03.150 what I was instructed to do. But just flashing back memory of opening that 308 00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:07.390 door, walking into the bathroom and and being inside of that building for a 309 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:11.390 few minutes of time, it just, first off, it's it's not a 310 00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:18.059 it's it's not a bright and cheery environment by any means and it does just 311 00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:22.700 feel wrong even in your heart and state at that point. You Yeah, 312 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.099 even then, I've even then I noticed it, I would I more or 313 00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:30.009 less ignored it and rejected it and didn't, you know, think anything of 314 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:33.609 it at the time. But looking back on it years later, I can 315 00:23:33.650 --> 00:23:37.650 I can understand why it felt like that. Yeah, but honestly, in 316 00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:41.000 the in the short amount of time that I was involved out there on a 317 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:48.920 daily basis, there wasn't really anything specifically that led me to stop doing that. 318 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.480 And at the time, and even for a couple of years after, 319 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.230 I still would have well, not for a couple of years, for the 320 00:23:56.309 --> 00:24:00.549 next year or so after that, I still would have said that I supported 321 00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:03.670 it. But basically I burned myself out. I jumped in and was there 322 00:24:03.750 --> 00:24:10.940 like every single day for an hour to several hours, just for long periods 323 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:15.619 of time and and essentially, I think this just came into my head. 324 00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:19.140 Actually, I haven't really thought this before, but I think what happened was 325 00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:26.009 once I realized that it wasn't healing the conviction that I had that I was 326 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:30.849 trying to fix by volunteering and doubling down on the sin, I abandoned it 327 00:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.890 because it wasn't benefiting me the way that I thought it would. Yeah, 328 00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.569 how is your wife responding to you being a clinic s scored and then to 329 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.680 when you left? Yeah, so her her story is complicated, of course, 330 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:48.400 like everybody else's. She she essentially, ever since we've been together, 331 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.750 has more or less supported me and whatever I wanted to do, and some 332 00:24:52.910 --> 00:24:57.069 of that being good and some of that being bad, but she's she's never 333 00:24:57.230 --> 00:25:03.269 really pushed back against me and there were times when she absolutely should have, 334 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:10.220 and that's that's her shortcoming. My shortcomings are greater, I think. So 335 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:12.140 I'm not throwing her under the bus by any means, sure, but but 336 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:17.019 you know, at the time she would have said, well, that's that's 337 00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:21.450 good that you're supporting women's rights and and trying to help people or something. 338 00:25:21.529 --> 00:25:26.650 Although throughout our entire relationship she would never deny God, and I tried to 339 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:30.410 get her to several times because I had, yeah, the beginning, the 340 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.410 first few years of of US knowing each other, I was again very like 341 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:41.960 hardcore open rebellion against against God and against Christianity specifically. So there were many 342 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:47.200 times when I tried to pull her down with me and she would never she 343 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.509 would never go along with me that far. She would always say, well, 344 00:25:49.589 --> 00:25:52.789 I still pray and I still believe that God loves me. And she 345 00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:57.710 fell away and rebelled in a similar way that I did. But she never 346 00:25:57.829 --> 00:26:00.269 denied God the way that I did, and I don't I don't know what 347 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.420 that means one way or the other, but she didn't try to talk me 348 00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:07.019 out of it, she didn't try to talk me into it. She was 349 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:11.940 more or less neutral. Yeah, was there anything you ever heard from the 350 00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:17.380 pro life side that gave you pause, that made you stop and say, 351 00:26:17.380 --> 00:26:21.890 HMM, maybe they're making a decent point? Or did you? And did 352 00:26:21.930 --> 00:26:25.730 you believe that we were lying about all the help we were offering? So 353 00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:34.240 I did believe that. I did believe that you were lying. I just 354 00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:37.920 for the record, now that you're on the other side, are we lying 355 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.960 about that, Kevin? Now, okay, and I did. We we 356 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:48.430 always all the people on the on the pro choice really pro abortion. Right 357 00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:52.029 where where the real pro choicers here? Honestly, they are protect life for 358 00:26:52.109 --> 00:26:53.750 them. Yeah, pro choice, yes, yes, the they, the 359 00:26:55.190 --> 00:26:56.910 people on the other side, or just pro death. But they you know, 360 00:26:56.950 --> 00:27:00.309 they still say it every day. You guys are all just paid to 361 00:27:00.390 --> 00:27:03.460 be out here. You wouldn't come out here in volunteer your time, although 362 00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:06.700 they claim that they do. So I don't know why they can't afford us 363 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:10.460 the same ability to be charitable. But but yeah, it was the same 364 00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:12.940 then. We all said all they're probably all just being paid to be activists 365 00:27:14.059 --> 00:27:18.329 and all they the thing that you'll hear a lot is all those people care 366 00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.730 about is the baby being born. They don't actually care about anything after that. 367 00:27:22.329 --> 00:27:26.369 The same kind of nonsense arguments that we hear every day out here today. 368 00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:30.680 Still, it hasn't really changed much, to be honest. PROBIRD, 369 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.920 there was right, right, but yeah, there was all that. I 370 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:38.279 thought that. But there was there ever anything that that made you think, 371 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:47.670 HMM, maybe I'm wrong about something, to be honest, not from the 372 00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.950 cities for life crew out there that stuff again, like I said, my 373 00:27:51.029 --> 00:27:53.349 heart was pretty hardened against that at that point in time. A year or 374 00:27:53.470 --> 00:27:59.900 so later my worldview would start to drift a little bit more, a little 375 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:03.099 bit more conservative from where it was at that time. But my at that 376 00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:07.940 time there was nothing anybody could say that would convince me that I was wrong 377 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.019 about the truth. Yeah, so you left in your world view started to 378 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:14.930 shift. What what was costing that shift? Do you do? You know? 379 00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:17.650 Can you talk about that? Sure? I mean. Well, for 380 00:28:17.769 --> 00:28:25.650 starters, I got married and I started to and so, just to back 381 00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:27.599 up real quick, all of this is God that. None of this is 382 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:33.880 me right. This is all God's grace manifesting in my life, right, 383 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:38.200 and that's something that I'm that I try to be grateful for every day. 384 00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:45.390 But essentially my experience has been that, over a course of a few years, 385 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:52.549 several years really. I was drawn to him slowly and the turning point 386 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:59.619 was getting married prior to committing, finally committing to my wife. After a 387 00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:04.700 couple, couple three years of pretty much flip flopping on her and running around 388 00:29:04.700 --> 00:29:08.140 and abandoning her and all of these kinds of things, I finally committed to 389 00:29:08.180 --> 00:29:12.130 marry her and have been faithful to her. We have been faithful to one 390 00:29:12.130 --> 00:29:17.930 another ever since and have worked together as a team to put our family together 391 00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:22.410 the way that it should have been from the start and to repair some of 392 00:29:22.490 --> 00:29:27.519 the damage that we did to each other. And at the beginning of that 393 00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.480 I would have just looked looked at that again, like three or four years 394 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.359 ago. I would have just looked at it from like a humanistic perspective, 395 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.640 saying, well, I'm just trying to be a good person and do what's 396 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.750 right because I care about this person, still denying that God had anything to 397 00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:48.230 do with that. But basically, over the course of about four years, 398 00:29:48.309 --> 00:29:56.099 after getting married and making a making a real commitment to this person who I 399 00:29:56.220 --> 00:30:00.299 had harmed in the past, I slow lily started to settle down, basically, 400 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:08.650 and my views slowly started to change and I started taking more perspectives into 401 00:30:10.369 --> 00:30:15.690 consideration. Basically, so I started to abandon the some of the destructive lifestyle 402 00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:21.089 choices that I had been involved in for years. Promiscuity again, the the 403 00:30:21.210 --> 00:30:26.440 whole gay and transactivism and lifestyle side of things, drug abuse, all of 404 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:33.920 that sort of stuff. And as my life slowed down and I opened my 405 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:40.670 mind to other perspectives, the truth kind of slowly grew back in me. 406 00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:42.910 I guess is I don't know if that's a good way to put it, 407 00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:47.789 but but it took years. I mean, you know well. I mean 408 00:30:47.869 --> 00:30:51.940 that they're as you know, before we started this podcast I said, man, 409 00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:55.140 we're looking to encourage people who are out there on the sidewalk. We're 410 00:30:55.180 --> 00:30:57.180 not looking to bash the pro abortion people. We're not looking to show how 411 00:30:57.220 --> 00:31:02.140 much better we are than them, although, by God's grace he's changed us 412 00:31:02.259 --> 00:31:04.450 and we, I think, are. I think we're more open minded in 413 00:31:04.490 --> 00:31:08.089 a lot of ways. But I did want to hit on and what you're 414 00:31:08.089 --> 00:31:11.089 talking about, I think gives hope to people who are on the sidewalk, 415 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:15.970 prolifers, who are dealing with these clinic escorts, these pro abortion people opposing 416 00:31:17.009 --> 00:31:19.359 them and just infuse you guys a little bit of hope that God is working 417 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.279 behind the scenes. I mean, Kevin, God was working on you while 418 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.319 you were escorting those women, exactly, even though what you were doing was 419 00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.200 when direct opposition to God's Word and you were rebellion to him, he by 420 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.950 His mercy and grace, didn't leave you. He was pursuing you and he 421 00:31:33.109 --> 00:31:37.589 is sovereign. Yeah, so he's moving. You know, I've heard it 422 00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:41.509 said that God can strike straight blows with crooked sticks. Yeah, and we're 423 00:31:41.509 --> 00:31:47.220 all crooked sticks. Yeah. So we've talked a lot. Every you, 424 00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:51.220 Vicky and Daniel, and everybody's talked a lot, especially the last few weeks 425 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:56.019 with the influx of pro abortion advocates out there, about trying to trying not 426 00:31:56.059 --> 00:32:00.529 to focus on them, but one thing that I try to reach out to 427 00:32:00.569 --> 00:32:04.730 them with if I end up in any sort of interaction with them, is 428 00:32:05.529 --> 00:32:08.730 look, there is absolutely hope for you, because there was hope for me 429 00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:15.609 because only a few short years ago, I believed and and did the exact 430 00:32:15.650 --> 00:32:19.519 same things that you believe and that you were doing, and God has changed 431 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.599 my life and he has changed me. Yeah, which is that's that's so 432 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:27.400 incredible. That that God is able to take your testimony and you are unique 433 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.230 at out there. As far as I know, you're the only x escort 434 00:32:30.309 --> 00:32:34.990 that we hopefully not forever, that we have out there. Hopefully not forever. 435 00:32:35.230 --> 00:32:38.670 But but you can speak from your experience to no one can deny what 436 00:32:38.950 --> 00:32:42.670 your experience. Well, they can call me a liar, but that's the 437 00:32:42.710 --> 00:32:45.380 only thing they can do. Like one of the one of the guys out 438 00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:47.980 there, either last week or the week before, was when we got into 439 00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:54.940 a conversation, he said something about he basically alluded to the idea that I 440 00:32:55.380 --> 00:33:00.730 had never struggled and that I didn't have any position to be speaking on any 441 00:33:00.769 --> 00:33:05.049 of these topics at all, and I basically just had to say look, 442 00:33:05.130 --> 00:33:07.809 man like, I grew up in a trailer park, I was a drug 443 00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:13.279 addict, I was involved in sexual deviant lifestyles. I was homeless for two 444 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.480 hours, I think I was. I was homeless. I like. I 445 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:21.799 believe man like the silence. That's the first time in his tirade. Yeah, 446 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:23.480 that I was there at the the time and he just couldn't speak. 447 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.509 But God is in control. Yeah, ultimately, and you know, he 448 00:33:28.829 --> 00:33:31.990 saw fit. For what reason? I don't know other than that he loves 449 00:33:32.029 --> 00:33:37.109 me, to extend His grace and mercy to me and to change my life, 450 00:33:37.190 --> 00:33:43.140 and I firmly believe that he will absolutely do that for multitudes of other 451 00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.819 people as well. I'm not unique in that aspect. Yeah, so, 452 00:33:46.059 --> 00:33:50.660 yeah, I mean we're talking about a unique scenario. We're dealing with pro 453 00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:54.019 abortion advocates and even beyond just pro abortion advocates, we're dealing with people who 454 00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:59.210 are literally on the front lines trying to oppose us, who are advocating for 455 00:33:59.369 --> 00:34:04.450 life. So that's kind of a step beyond we're most quote pro choice people 456 00:34:04.450 --> 00:34:07.490 will go. Most people play stay in the political realm. Sure, so, 457 00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:09.639 post on facebook about it. Exactly it. So you want a step 458 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:14.039 further than most people. But that doesn't mean that. I mean God. 459 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.159 In all kinds of realms, when people take things to an extreme, God 460 00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:22.000 is saving people. God is saving Satanist God is saving abortion doctors. Yeah, 461 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:28.909 testimonies of abortion doctors are numerous. Former abortion workers testimony these of those 462 00:34:28.909 --> 00:34:30.949 folks coming out of the abortion industry are numerous. But even beyond abortion, 463 00:34:31.349 --> 00:34:36.750 homosexual lifestyle, all of these lifestyles that are seeped in sin, God is 464 00:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.380 rescuing and saving people from. So I want to encourage those who are listening, 465 00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:42.940 who are on the sidewalks, who are dealing with some of these folks, 466 00:34:43.300 --> 00:34:45.900 to not lose hope and to not give up. Listen, we can't 467 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.099 be we can't be as bigoted as as they claim that we are, and, 468 00:34:50.380 --> 00:34:52.460 as a matter of fact, many of those folks are. I mean, 469 00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.650 I've talked to some some pretty bigoted people over the years. Oh yeah, 470 00:34:54.650 --> 00:34:58.650 and most of them are on the proach boy side. We can''t be 471 00:34:58.769 --> 00:35:00.650 like that. We can't be close minded, righting people off just because they 472 00:35:00.690 --> 00:35:05.010 stand on one side of an issue, that somehow there's no hope for them. 473 00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:07.440 That's not the way God operates. Yeah, so we can't embrace that 474 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.880 mentality. We need to always now, there does come a point where I 475 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.880 think we need to stop having a conversation with someone when they're just being unnecessarily 476 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.400 antagonistic and all of that. Sure not let the pro abortion people be in 477 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.309 distraction. Well, we should never give up hope that these people can come 478 00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:27.030 to know the Lord, because if he saved me, then I know he 479 00:35:27.110 --> 00:35:29.550 can save them, and that's kind of what you're saying. Kevin. You 480 00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:32.309 got rescued me and he can rescue them. So, as believers we shouldn't 481 00:35:32.309 --> 00:35:36.139 give up hope. Yep, but that's why I'm now. I'm sorry. 482 00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:40.340 I also, like I think it's very encouraging that you said it wasn't really 483 00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:45.619 anything that we said or did, it was God and and certainly I'm sure 484 00:35:45.619 --> 00:35:50.130 our presence there had to have affected you in some way. Sure, but 485 00:35:50.530 --> 00:35:57.250 that that change is through God and and so I was just being there and 486 00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:01.329 being faithful and praying for those pro choice people, which we do. So 487 00:36:01.690 --> 00:36:06.519 is having an effect, and one effect that I can say that it had. 488 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:13.760 I'm thankful that you guys were out there at the time because years later, 489 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:22.349 when my worldview had finally shifted massively and my heart had changed and my 490 00:36:22.550 --> 00:36:30.909 life had been changed, the topic of abortion as a an area of Christian 491 00:36:30.949 --> 00:36:37.460 ministry came back into my sphere of influence. Yeah, and the first thing 492 00:36:37.699 --> 00:36:42.420 that came to mind was, well, there were people out there doing that 493 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.699 ministry years ago that I saw, and how can I get involved? I 494 00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:50.010 was going to ask you how did you come the full circle to come back 495 00:36:50.090 --> 00:36:52.849 on another side of the sidewalk, which is really I'd love to hear that 496 00:36:53.090 --> 00:37:00.250 story. So after again, along several years process, a couple of years 497 00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:05.719 ago, in late two thousand and eighteen, I came to the point where 498 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.119 I would again start professing to be a believer. I don't I don't have 499 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:14.000 like a this is my born again date or something like that. It was 500 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:19.510 a period of several months where God was really on my heart and he put 501 00:37:20.070 --> 00:37:24.630 some specific people in my life to disciple me and minister to me and kind 502 00:37:24.670 --> 00:37:29.510 of push me in the right direction and to keep me on that topic. 503 00:37:29.949 --> 00:37:32.380 But by the end of two thousand and eighteen, if you asked, I 504 00:37:32.420 --> 00:37:35.820 would tell you that I was a Christian, I was reading the Bible, 505 00:37:35.860 --> 00:37:39.300 I was praying with my family, I was we were looking for a church 506 00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:44.769 and I was settling back into the reality that the things that I had been 507 00:37:44.849 --> 00:37:47.530 taught as a child we're actually, for the most part true and that I 508 00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:53.170 needed to pursue that. And of course, along with that comes looking, 509 00:37:53.369 --> 00:37:59.840 seeking out new material, new new PODCASTS, new preachers to follow, and 510 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:06.400 I got turned on to a ministry called apology of studios, with apology at 511 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.519 Church Out in Arizona, Jeff Durban. Yes, guests, Jeff Durban and 512 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:15.469 all of those guys. And after listening to again someone, someone turned me 513 00:38:15.510 --> 00:38:16.030 onto that and said, hey, you should check this out, this, 514 00:38:16.269 --> 00:38:21.510 this will, this will give you some some insight into what you're pursuing. 515 00:38:22.030 --> 00:38:28.260 And one of the big things that they're involved with is the abortion ministry, 516 00:38:28.539 --> 00:38:36.139 with their ind abortion now ministry. And so that pricked my heart because for 517 00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:38.780 a couple of years I had basically just been dark on the subject, wasn't 518 00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:44.610 really concerned about it. But now coming at it from a Christian perspective and 519 00:38:44.769 --> 00:38:51.250 having that brought back to my attention and thinking, well, this is if, 520 00:38:51.289 --> 00:38:55.960 if I truly am going to honor God, I I need to I 521 00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:00.880 need to be active in some way doing something to serve him and doing something 522 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:07.199 to share him and and all of that. And so after after watching what 523 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:12.150 apologia was doing with their abortion mill ministry, I really got convicted to get 524 00:39:12.190 --> 00:39:16.670 involved, which is actually really funny because the person that convicted Jeff Durban to 525 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:22.710 get involved in the abortion Mil Ministry was Lisa Metsker. Yeah, okay, 526 00:39:22.789 --> 00:39:27.099 and she's convicted me also. Yeah, and so she's one of the founders 527 00:39:27.139 --> 00:39:30.619 of the ministry that's happening here in Charlotte right, and so it's just crazy 528 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:34.619 how things come full circle. Like, yeah, like I it wouldn't be 529 00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:37.570 until months later, after I was kind of in the process of trying to 530 00:39:37.610 --> 00:39:43.530 come on board with cities for life, that I heard Jeff Durban talking about 531 00:39:43.650 --> 00:39:49.690 something and Lisa Metsker came up and I went that same sounds familiar and obviously, 532 00:39:49.769 --> 00:39:52.250 like I've seen her involved in this stuff and, you know, follow 533 00:39:52.289 --> 00:39:55.480 her on facebook and stuff like that. So it's kind of crazy how how 534 00:39:55.599 --> 00:40:00.679 things get around like that. But that was really it. Listening to their 535 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:06.000 ministry and seeing what they were doing convicted me. And then again I suddenly 536 00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:07.909 realized, well, there were people out there doing that right here in Charlotte 537 00:40:08.309 --> 00:40:12.309 when I was on the other side, when I was opposing them, and 538 00:40:12.949 --> 00:40:15.789 if they're still doing that, is there any way that I can get involved? 539 00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:20.550 And it didn't happen quickly. I reached out to you like a year 540 00:40:20.550 --> 00:40:22.420 ago before you stay. Yeah, I think over a year ago. Yeah, 541 00:40:23.179 --> 00:40:28.340 and started to come on board and then fell out of touch and not 542 00:40:28.460 --> 00:40:30.739 busy with other things and didn't kind and then I came back to it at 543 00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:35.380 the beginning of this year and and of course, that was when this whole 544 00:40:35.420 --> 00:40:37.849 coronavirus thing was blowing up and you guys are like, well, we're kind 545 00:40:37.849 --> 00:40:40.489 of on hold right now trying to see what's going on. I was like 546 00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:44.329 all right, cool. So I waited until a few months later and then 547 00:40:44.489 --> 00:40:49.449 finally kind of midsummer this year actually not to personally come out and have a 548 00:40:49.769 --> 00:40:52.519 have a what do you call it? A ride along? Yeah, I 549 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:54.920 don't know, shadowing. Yeah, a shadowing day and go through some of 550 00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:00.000 the training and and it's been I mean, it's not fun, obviously, 551 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.510 but right. And it's reboarding though it is, it is rewarding. Yeah, 552 00:41:04.510 --> 00:41:09.070 it's very it can be very taxing and it can be hard, but 553 00:41:09.909 --> 00:41:15.150 it is I mean, just in my short experience doing this, it's been 554 00:41:15.190 --> 00:41:17.469 absolutely worth it. Yeah, I like it an into a workout. You 555 00:41:17.550 --> 00:41:22.019 know, you think about a lot of Christians. Their spiritual muscles aren't really 556 00:41:22.099 --> 00:41:23.460 used very much. So there's not a whole lot of you. When you 557 00:41:23.539 --> 00:41:28.579 work out, you're pushing against something right, and our Christian culture in America 558 00:41:28.699 --> 00:41:31.059 we're really not taught to push against something. We're taught to really kind of 559 00:41:31.099 --> 00:41:35.809 go with things right or to kind of be I don't know behind the scenes 560 00:41:35.849 --> 00:41:39.210 and not really confront and to come out and confront evil where it takes place. 561 00:41:39.409 --> 00:41:44.769 It really does stretch spiritual muscles and you'll grow in areas that you otherwise 562 00:41:44.809 --> 00:41:49.400 wouldn't grow with that tension, with that you know really that that confrontation. 563 00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.320 Yeah, you were in the midst of going to ask you just personal curiosity. 564 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.079 So, having come from that side, do you find when you face 565 00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:02.269 least them, when you face the pro abortion group, do you feel empathy 566 00:42:02.309 --> 00:42:07.789 or anger or a mix of both or what? What are you feeling as 567 00:42:07.829 --> 00:42:13.869 you regard them? I think it's unique based on the personality of the other 568 00:42:14.070 --> 00:42:17.860 person. But honestly, for the most part I feel sad, yeah, 569 00:42:17.980 --> 00:42:25.099 with them, because I remember where I was mentally and emotionally and spiritually when 570 00:42:25.340 --> 00:42:29.380 I was the type of person that would be willing to stand out there and 571 00:42:29.420 --> 00:42:36.730 advocate for the murder of children right and I can honestly look at them and 572 00:42:37.010 --> 00:42:40.889 see what was in me in their eyes, and it's not it's not so 573 00:42:42.329 --> 00:42:46.239 long ago that I can't remember it pretty vividly. And some of them, 574 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:50.039 some of them, will spark your anger a little bit with some of the 575 00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:57.639 ridiculous and horrible things that they'll say, but honestly, talking to them and 576 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:02.309 interacting with them in any way, it does. It is emotional. Yeah, 577 00:43:02.309 --> 00:43:06.909 yeah, well, I'm sure it grieves God's heart and we are to 578 00:43:07.030 --> 00:43:09.590 grieve for what greeps God. Yeah, so, yeah, well, you 579 00:43:09.710 --> 00:43:14.179 have just in the last couple of minutes that we have, because wrapped this 580 00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:17.219 thing up in just a minute. You have a unique perspective that I don't 581 00:43:17.260 --> 00:43:21.980 have. They think you don't have that. Many people are listening don't have. 582 00:43:22.219 --> 00:43:25.860 And in that not only, again, were you approach choice advocate that 583 00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:30.090 advocated in the political around, but you are actually they are at the abortion 584 00:43:30.250 --> 00:43:34.050 center, actively advocating for, as you said, the murder of children. 585 00:43:34.449 --> 00:43:38.409 So you have that perspective and then now you're actively advocating for lives to be 586 00:43:38.489 --> 00:43:43.039 saved and protected and bringing the gospel of these places. You have these two 587 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.880 perspectives that a lot of people don't have. Is there anything you could say 588 00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:50.599 to prolife people, in particular, people that are on the sidewalk at an 589 00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:53.199 abortion center, that you think that we hadn't already covered would be helpful for 590 00:43:53.360 --> 00:44:00.550 them to know, to understand from those perspectives? I think that I think 591 00:44:00.590 --> 00:44:07.110 a lot of them are fairly intelligent people, okay, and I honestly think 592 00:44:07.349 --> 00:44:13.300 that if more of them would open their minds and study the subject a little 593 00:44:13.300 --> 00:44:17.940 bit more thoroughly and with really with an open mind and not not looking at 594 00:44:19.059 --> 00:44:22.739 everything that they that they see about abortion as an attack against abortion, but 595 00:44:23.489 --> 00:44:28.969 if they would really open their hearts and minds and try to understand what is 596 00:44:29.090 --> 00:44:32.889 going on inside of those buildings, I I think that a lot of them 597 00:44:34.050 --> 00:44:40.760 could be turned away from you what they're doing. But but ultimately it's got 598 00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:46.960 to be God, because what is happening in that what's happening on that property, 599 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:52.349 everywhere forward of the property line that we don't cross over, whether it's 600 00:44:52.469 --> 00:44:58.710 the pro abortion advocates, the clinic escorts, the security guards whose jobs it 601 00:44:58.750 --> 00:45:01.510 is to be there and try to protect people from getting physically assaulted, the 602 00:45:01.670 --> 00:45:05.869 women going in and out of there, the workers going in and out of 603 00:45:05.909 --> 00:45:13.820 there and, ultimately the abortionists who are actively killing these children. The thing 604 00:45:14.019 --> 00:45:20.179 that is happening on that property is the suppression of the Truth and on righteousness. 605 00:45:20.179 --> 00:45:28.369 Yeah, absolute and ultimately, without God granting a repentant heart. I 606 00:45:28.489 --> 00:45:31.650 don't. I don't think that we can truly convince them. Yeah, we 607 00:45:31.769 --> 00:45:37.440 can't pull the scales from their eyes. God has to free them to see. 608 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.960 Yeah, and he does. Yeah, you know he does. Yeah. 609 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.840 So, ultimately, our place is, as those who believe Jesus is 610 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:51.190 the answer is to be faithful in bringing the Gospel to these places. Yep, 611 00:45:51.590 --> 00:45:57.429 faithful in proclaiming the Gospel and being out there on the sidewalk and leaving 612 00:45:57.510 --> 00:46:00.429 it in the hands of the Lord. We literally can't go inside of Kevin's 613 00:46:00.469 --> 00:46:05.699 heart and change it and make him into a prolifer. I literally can't go 614 00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.380 inside of Ron Vermonti's heart, the abortions there, and change his heart. 615 00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:12.539 God can do that and that's a work that only the Lord can do. 616 00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:16.099 As as people who love Jesus, are places to be faithful. Yep. 617 00:46:16.179 --> 00:46:21.289 And he says in the in the Bible there's a passage that says that God 618 00:46:21.409 --> 00:46:25.530 hates the hands that shed innocent blood, but he also says how beautiful are 619 00:46:25.570 --> 00:46:30.849 the feet of those who share the Gospel. And what I have to try 620 00:46:30.929 --> 00:46:37.239 to remind myself is I can't change anyone's heart, but it is my job 621 00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:45.000 to spread the news. Yeah, to deliver the message and once I deliver 622 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:52.429 the message, God is the one that has to make that seed grow. 623 00:46:52.750 --> 00:46:55.389 Yeah, so, yeah, a man, it's great. Amen. Well, 624 00:46:55.590 --> 00:46:59.110 I'm going to wrap it up with that. That was those good brother 625 00:46:59.190 --> 00:47:01.619 have appreciated wonderful. I know there have been a lot of people that could 626 00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:05.460 not wait for this day. They knew that, they knew about you and 627 00:47:05.539 --> 00:47:07.579 they wanted to hear your story, and there have been already a lot of 628 00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:12.260 people that you have truly encouraged by the fact that you're out there in the 629 00:47:12.500 --> 00:47:15.610 often terrible weather and terrible circumstances fighting for life now. Yeah, so I 630 00:47:15.730 --> 00:47:23.329 have to try to avoid allowing my my pride to make me feel good about 631 00:47:23.449 --> 00:47:27.929 stuff like this because ultimately, like, I don't have anything to be proud 632 00:47:27.969 --> 00:47:30.519 of. The things that I did in my past that led me to where 633 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:37.920 I am now, for the most part, are shameful and I I am 634 00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:44.710 just thankful that something that I say can be used to help someone else for 635 00:47:44.909 --> 00:47:49.110 good. Amen. And you know, I'm more than willing to and happy 636 00:47:49.190 --> 00:47:52.429 to talk personally with anybody that I meet out there on the sidewalk about any 637 00:47:52.510 --> 00:47:55.829 of that stuff. But at the end of the day, like I'm just 638 00:47:55.949 --> 00:48:00.179 a guy who send a whole lunch and I'm not anything special. So we're 639 00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:05.019 basically on the same boat, right, exactly. Yeah, Amen, man, 640 00:48:05.139 --> 00:48:07.420 that's that's that's a good words. Again, encouragement there. Brother, 641 00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:12.820 I'll just say practically beyond just you know, the unique perspective you come from, 642 00:48:13.650 --> 00:48:16.130 just having you out there as a blessing, whether you're formerly a clinic 643 00:48:16.210 --> 00:48:20.329 escort or not, just a blessing, your faithful man. Yep, you 644 00:48:20.849 --> 00:48:22.769 serve wherever we've asked you to serve. You just hopped in there. You 645 00:48:22.809 --> 00:48:25.449 were on the morning team and then you said out I'll do the afternoon team 646 00:48:25.489 --> 00:48:29.239 thing to and then you're willing to drive the mobile unit to so it's a 647 00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.559 blessing just having people like you and listen what it bows down to, no 648 00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:37.079 matter what realm of ministry we're in or what culture, what background, whatever 649 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.989 issue we come from, if God has rescued and saved us, as the 650 00:48:42.030 --> 00:48:45.309 scripture says, we're all together, unprofitable servants, just doing what our master 651 00:48:45.429 --> 00:48:47.829 has called us to do. Yeah, this is about the Lord, this 652 00:48:47.909 --> 00:48:52.150 is about his glory and I appreciate you sharing it. Just giving glory to 653 00:48:52.190 --> 00:48:54.469 God, and so we just encourage you guys who are listening, glorify God 654 00:48:54.590 --> 00:48:58.739 and what he's doing. Glorify God and babies that are saved, heart set 655 00:48:58.820 --> 00:49:01.340 or changed lives that are transformed by the power of the Gospel. In just 656 00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:05.059 the fact that you're able to be out there and serve him on the sidewalk. 657 00:49:05.300 --> 00:49:08.219 Give Glory to God for the opportunities that you have to be his hands, 658 00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:12.610 to be his feet, to have those beautiful feet and bring the Gospel. 659 00:49:12.889 --> 00:49:15.010 And so we won't encourage you, guys that are listening to do that. 660 00:49:15.090 --> 00:49:17.809 If you haven't yet stepped out onto the sidewalk at your local abortion center 661 00:49:19.130 --> 00:49:22.369 to be a witness to those moms that are going into, those dads that 662 00:49:22.369 --> 00:49:24.800 are going into, those pro abortion people that are going in. Please just 663 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:28.840 take that step of faith. And we have a podcast we did just a 664 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:30.719 couple of weeks ago called your first time out in an abortion center, where 665 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:34.639 we talk you through what that might look like, some of the unique challenges 666 00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.159 and all that. We have the sidewalks for life website, sidewalks in number 667 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.750 four lifecom where you guys can go and you can find out where your abortion 668 00:49:40.909 --> 00:49:45.510 centers add we have some more stuff coming you guys have heard about our merger 669 00:49:45.670 --> 00:49:49.150 with love life. Cities for life and love life coming together. Just God's 670 00:49:49.190 --> 00:49:52.380 doing some amazing things nashally and there's going to be more tools and things that 671 00:49:52.460 --> 00:49:55.940 we're creating, more content and stuff that we're putting out. So just look 672 00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:59.659 for that in the future. But if you want to reach out to me, 673 00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:01.260 as I said at the beginning of this podcast, you can email me. 674 00:50:01.340 --> 00:50:07.019 D Parks at cities for lifecom, her vcs orget cities for lifecom. 675 00:50:07.059 --> 00:50:08.809 We'd love to hear from you. Guys. We hope you share this podcast 676 00:50:08.889 --> 00:50:22.719 and until next time, God bless o love for love. Give me our 677 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:35.079 love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too 678 00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:37.550 precious and some that you