Abortion Clinic Escort Becomes A Sidewalk Counselor

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me.200:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.150Welcome to the Gospel Center pro lifepodcast. This episode, Vicki and I300:00:10.189 --> 00:00:13.589do an interview with Kevin, whowas a pro choice clinic escort at the400:00:13.630 --> 00:00:17.589abortion center that we minister it andnow he's a pro life style walk counselor.500:00:17.989 --> 00:00:20.710We think this episode will be ablessing you guys, so stay tuned.600:00:23.660 --> 00:00:37.250I felt show passish touch your use. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro700:00:37.369 --> 00:00:41.210life podcast. Appreciate you guys whojoin us for this podcast. Appreciate you800:00:41.329 --> 00:00:44.850guys, really, really appreciate youguys that share this podcast. Please do900:00:45.009 --> 00:00:48.409that and leave reviews for us.We'd like to know what you think about1000:00:48.409 --> 00:00:52.640this podcast and at the end ofthis podcast I'll give you my email address1100:00:52.679 --> 00:00:54.960and Vick you will give you heremail address. You can reach out to1200:00:55.000 --> 00:00:58.960us and just give us any ideasfor suggestions for a future podcast that we1300:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.439can do, because we would liketo cover subjects that you guys would like1400:01:02.520 --> 00:01:04.670for us to cover, not justones that come on our radar. So1500:01:04.909 --> 00:01:07.549just let us know if there's anysubjects you guys would like for us to1600:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.189cover. We'd love to just tacklethose from a Biblical perspective, a Gospel1700:01:11.230 --> 00:01:17.390Center perspective. But as we gointo this podcast, this this episode for1800:01:17.469 --> 00:01:21.019this week, what you guys justto be cued into some of the things1900:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.780that we're dealing with. And Iknow that nationally a lot of people are2000:01:23.819 --> 00:01:30.099dealing with pro abortion opposition. Itseems with the election cycles people with pro2100:01:30.180 --> 00:01:34.489abortion opinions get louder and louder andof course they want their candidate to win.2200:01:34.170 --> 00:01:38.250This has never been and, byGod's grace, will never be a2300:01:38.370 --> 00:01:42.170political podcast. So we're not talkingpolitics. We're talking about the nitty gritty2400:01:42.209 --> 00:01:46.409stuff. We're talking about the Gospelcentered stuff. Even we did our podcast2500:01:46.450 --> 00:01:49.879a couple of weeks ago about thepro abortion opposition and how to deal with2600:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.560that, we came from a Gospelcentered perspective. But this episode, we2700:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.280think will be a real blessing toyou guys, because we have a guy2800:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.510who himself was a former clinic escortat the local abortion clinic here on the2900:02:00.629 --> 00:02:04.989trope drive in Charlotte. His nameis Kevin. We're going to introduce him3000:02:04.989 --> 00:02:07.909and just a men or have himintroduced himself. But we think this is3100:02:07.030 --> 00:02:08.870going to be a blessing to youguys. Think it's going to be a3200:02:08.990 --> 00:02:14.150unique perspective to hear from someone whowas there on that side, so called3300:02:14.310 --> 00:02:16.740side of the fence, and nowhas come on to the pro life side3400:02:16.740 --> 00:02:21.460of the fence and is actually volunteeringwith us on a regular basis and a3500:02:21.500 --> 00:02:23.060real blessing to have him. He'sbeen a blessing to the ministry over the3600:02:23.139 --> 00:02:27.780past couple of months. But,Kevin, just introduce yourself real quick and3700:02:28.180 --> 00:02:31.810and I don't know we'll get intosome questions, but just you know what's3800:02:31.810 --> 00:02:36.409going on with you and your family, your husband, your father, those3900:02:36.449 --> 00:02:40.370sort of things. Yep, soI'm Kevin, thirty years old. Grew4000:02:40.370 --> 00:02:47.360up in and around the Charlotte areain a church attending conservative household. Professed4100:02:47.439 --> 00:02:51.240to be a believer from the timeI was a kid. Was Involved in4200:02:51.800 --> 00:02:58.280various ministries with homelessness and apologetics,training and all that kind of stuff from4300:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.750the time I was a kid.Long Story Short, I spent about ten4400:03:00.870 --> 00:03:07.669years in pretty serious rebellion against theGod that I professed to love as a4500:03:07.710 --> 00:03:13.139child. Ended up ended up marriedseveral years ago. My wife and I4600:03:13.300 --> 00:03:16.379have a daughter and a few acouple of years ago. Well, a4700:03:16.460 --> 00:03:22.900few years ago, my worldview startedto kind of shift back towards my roots4800:03:23.099 --> 00:03:25.259a little bit and through that process, a couple of years ago, I4900:03:25.780 --> 00:03:31.770came to a abrupt realization that thatGod was still real and that he was5000:03:31.969 --> 00:03:35.370calling me back to him. And, you know, through that process,5100:03:35.889 --> 00:03:38.930ended up back either back in,depending on how you look at it,5200:03:39.009 --> 00:03:44.960either back in a relationship with theLord or in a real relationship with the5300:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.759Lord for the first time. AndI don't, you know, I don't,5400:03:47.560 --> 00:03:52.199I don't know everything. I justyeah, I just know that God5500:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.479called me to himself. Yeah,that's that's awesome. Well, I know5600:03:54.560 --> 00:04:00.150we when we first got your application, I texted Daniel right away. Daniel,5700:04:00.189 --> 00:04:03.949you will never believe this. Thisis this is a guy from the5800:04:04.069 --> 00:04:08.270pro choice side that I don't allthat stuff right off the bat. Yes,5900:04:08.349 --> 00:04:11.860I don't even remember when it wedid, and that that you were6000:04:12.219 --> 00:04:15.899a pro choice has scored and nowyou were wanting to volunteer on the pro6100:04:16.019 --> 00:04:19.180life side, and our initial thoughtwas a he's a plant, we're gonna6200:04:19.180 --> 00:04:23.980wear he's a mold. Yeah,we are in, watch out of might6300:04:24.019 --> 00:04:27.329be. And Yeah, we werevery careful, but you were the real6400:04:27.449 --> 00:04:30.329deal. We can we discovered prettyquickly that you really had a heart for6500:04:30.449 --> 00:04:34.410the Lord and for this work.So so you came. Yeah, you6600:04:34.490 --> 00:04:38.250know, you said, I amI want to volunteer with you guys.6700:04:38.410 --> 00:04:42.519So here you are, coming fromthe the other side to Yep. So6800:04:42.759 --> 00:04:48.199tell us about what brought you tothink that you wanted to be a pro6900:04:49.120 --> 00:04:58.230choice escort. So, growing upas a teenager and and on, from7000:04:58.389 --> 00:05:02.230the time that I knew what abortionwas in the in the kind of context7100:05:02.269 --> 00:05:06.259that I grew up in, Iwould have definitely professed to be pro life.7200:05:06.300 --> 00:05:11.180As long as I was a aChristian kid in church, I would7300:05:11.180 --> 00:05:14.579have always said abortion is wrong andall that stuff. And, like I7400:05:14.699 --> 00:05:18.939said, to summarize a very,very long story, once I got out7500:05:18.939 --> 00:05:27.930from under my parents and became myown person, I pretty much immediately started7600:05:28.009 --> 00:05:30.970rebelling against God, and that's notan uncommon thing. I was in and7700:05:31.089 --> 00:05:35.759out of relationships, I was inand out of poor lifestyle choices and,7800:05:38.519 --> 00:05:44.040of course, my my worldview wasshifting all the time, further and further7900:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.639away from what I had grown upin. And you know, it wasn't8000:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.350long. It wasn't. It wasn'teven I wasn't even twenty before I basically8100:05:51.389 --> 00:05:56.750would start saying that I was agnosticor that I was an atheist or that8200:05:56.829 --> 00:06:00.350I didn't care or whatever, justdepending on how it was dealing that day.8300:06:00.629 --> 00:06:05.899And so with that comes the theideology that, like the the pro8400:06:05.980 --> 00:06:12.660abortion advocates out there on the sidewalkwill say things like it's a woman's choice8500:06:12.779 --> 00:06:16.259and all that sort of stuff.All the all the pro abort rhetoric kind8600:06:16.259 --> 00:06:20.930of started to seep into me.And then there was some personal conviction that8700:06:21.050 --> 00:06:28.769was involved in that as well,because I I was personally a, I8800:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.050guess you could say, an accompliceto abortion. Yeah, I in my8900:06:31.370 --> 00:06:34.439early S. again, long storyshort, not going into all kinds of9000:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.680details or anything like that, butmy wife, who is personally as very9100:06:39.759 --> 00:06:44.240pro life and is is a savedperson now, for sure, when we9200:06:44.279 --> 00:06:48.069were younger, before we were married, there were two different instances where she9300:06:48.269 --> 00:06:55.069went through with abortions and both ofthose children were conceived by me, and9400:06:55.829 --> 00:07:01.620I passively supported her decision to dothat and essentially put her in the position9500:07:01.779 --> 00:07:06.779to feel like that was the optionthat she had, because it two different9600:07:06.819 --> 00:07:12.660points in the first couple of yearsof our relationship. I impregnated her and9700:07:12.699 --> 00:07:16.129then abandoned her twice. I meanwithin with within less than two years,9800:07:16.209 --> 00:07:23.290I did it twice, and neitherof those times did I get her pregnant9900:07:23.290 --> 00:07:25.610and then say well, you're pregnant, I'm leaving. That's not how it10000:07:25.689 --> 00:07:30.879happened. I was I was ina Um, a pretty hardcore stage of10100:07:30.920 --> 00:07:36.680selfishness and and was just trying toget away from any sort of responsibility or10200:07:36.959 --> 00:07:42.920anything that that I had to takecare of and just live for myself and10300:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.670do what I wanted to do.And so, though, the Times that10400:07:46.790 --> 00:07:49.790I would get to a point whereI could just jump ship and leave to10500:07:49.829 --> 00:07:54.430go do my own thing just happenedto coincide with pregnancies that I had caused10600:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.430subsequently, and so she would findherself, you know, again, two10700:07:58.470 --> 00:08:01.579different times, slightly different circumstances,but two different times in the first couple10800:08:01.579 --> 00:08:07.420of years of US knowing each other, she found herself more or less abandoned10900:08:07.459 --> 00:08:11.060by me and pregnant. and toback up a little bit further, our11000:08:11.139 --> 00:08:18.250daughter is biologically her daughter. Ihave more or less adopted her as my11100:08:18.410 --> 00:08:22.089own and she is my daughter.She doesn't have another father. The the11200:08:22.170 --> 00:08:26.089man who contributed to her biologically,has never been in the picture and she's11300:08:26.199 --> 00:08:31.680never met him. But this inthis time period of two thousand and twelve,11400:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.440two thousand and thirteen, I hadnot made that commitment to be the11500:08:35.759 --> 00:08:41.360father for this young girl yet andthrough a series of messy circumstances, my11600:08:41.470 --> 00:08:45.669wife didn't even have custody of her. So my wife's pregnant alone, doesn't11700:08:45.669 --> 00:08:52.389even have access to the child thatshe already has. And and because of11800:08:52.629 --> 00:08:58.019my unwillingness to step up and dothe right thing, two abortions occurred.11900:08:58.220 --> 00:09:03.580So fast forward to two thousand andsixteen, when I got involved with the12000:09:03.620 --> 00:09:09.340the pro abortion escort side of things. My wife and I got married in12100:09:09.379 --> 00:09:13.889two thousand and fourteen, committed toeach other and started working really, really12200:09:13.970 --> 00:09:18.570hard to to get custody of ourdaughter back and to clean up our lives12300:09:18.690 --> 00:09:24.799and and kind of get settled.But at that time I was still in12400:09:26.399 --> 00:09:31.080open rebellion against God. I wasn'tin the sort of evil and devious lifestyle12500:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.919that I had been in a fewyears prior. But I mean as of12600:09:35.960 --> 00:09:37.240two thousand and sixteen, I wasstill like, you know, I don't12700:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.070care about anything God related. We'reall just meet bags and nothing matters really,12800:09:41.149 --> 00:09:45.309and I'm just gonna I'm just goingto do what's best for me and12900:09:45.389 --> 00:09:52.350my family. Basically, I wasdrifting more towards more towards a conservative worldview13000:09:52.750 --> 00:09:56.779and more towards following kind of Christianmorality and stuff like that, but at13100:09:56.820 --> 00:10:00.860the time I would have just calledmyself a cultural Christian. I wasn't really13200:10:00.899 --> 00:10:05.860a spiritual person. But anyways,it doesn't matter if you accept responsibility for13300:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.610what you've done. At a heartlevel, you are going to be convicted13400:10:11.649 --> 00:10:15.370by the things that you've done.And my way of dealing with the conviction13500:10:15.570 --> 00:10:20.649that I had, based on seeingthe trauma that my wife had been going13600:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.360through four years at this point,based on the abortions that I I consider13700:10:24.440 --> 00:10:30.279myself to be a culprit of.Right I I felt like I had to13800:10:30.360 --> 00:10:37.190do something, and the something thatI landed on initially was to get involved13900:10:37.350 --> 00:10:41.789in the pro choice side of thingsand double down and say there's nothing wrong14000:10:41.830 --> 00:10:45.429with it and I'm going to goout there and fight for these women and14100:10:45.590 --> 00:10:48.870for their right to do whatever theywant with their bodies without somebody interfering with14200:10:48.909 --> 00:10:52.580them and telling them that what they'redoing is sinful. Yes, that's interesting.14300:10:52.659 --> 00:11:00.340So you're seeing your wife suffering fromthe abortions and your your decision was14400:11:00.500 --> 00:11:05.330to go and make sure that otherwomen would have that choice available. Right,14500:11:05.370 --> 00:11:11.090right. My my intent, Ithink, was to try to insulate14600:11:11.330 --> 00:11:18.000her from feeling bad about what shehad done by doubling down and trying to14700:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.480fight for the idea that what shehad done was right. Yeah, which14800:11:22.759 --> 00:11:28.679didn't work. That's an interesting dynamicand I don't want to at all pretend14900:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.190like if there are pro choice peoplepro abortion people they're listening to pretend like15000:11:33.470 --> 00:11:37.110the we think everyone on that sideof the fence is sort of one monolithic15100:11:37.190 --> 00:11:41.070group. So I don't want toput them all in one basket. But15200:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.309in your experience, do you feellike, or just in your conversations with15300:11:45.470 --> 00:11:48.860those folks, that that's a lotof people's experience? It's almost like a15400:11:48.980 --> 00:11:54.299selfjustifying presence out there. I wouldexpect that that my situation isn't totally unique.15500:11:54.299 --> 00:12:00.100Yeah, I mean I'm sure thereare dozens of different reasons that people,15600:12:00.259 --> 00:12:03.129and mostly women, mostly young women, come out there to fight for15700:12:03.210 --> 00:12:09.970the cause of abortion. But Ihave to I have to look at it15800:12:11.009 --> 00:12:16.080and think ultimately, everyone is beingconvicted in some way or another, whether15900:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.799they realize it or not, andeverybody has different ways of dealing with that16000:12:18.960 --> 00:12:26.039conviction. Some people deal with itby repenting and changing their lifestyle. Some16100:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.429people deal with it the way Idid initially, by doubled doubling down on16200:12:30.629 --> 00:12:33.789the sin and trying to justify itand make it seem like you didn't do16300:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.870anything wrong to begin with. Yeah, so I'm sure there's a bunch of16400:12:37.909 --> 00:12:41.190different stories, though. Yeah,I just wondered if you're with your conversations16500:12:41.309 --> 00:12:45.740with some of those folks, becauseobviously y'all had conversations, I would say.16600:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.740I mean you weren't out there foryears, you were out there for16700:12:48.940 --> 00:12:52.500just several weeks, right. I'msure you had to conversation with those folks16800:12:52.500 --> 00:12:56.779and did you see a common themein those conversations where it seemed that many16900:12:56.820 --> 00:13:00.409of the people that are on thepro choice have abortions in their past,17000:13:00.610 --> 00:13:03.129or at least we're trying to justifyabortions they've been a part of? So17100:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.049it was kind of mixed and,like you said. I wasn't involved in17200:13:07.289 --> 00:13:13.240that for a long period of timeand I didn't get to know most of17300:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.519the other people that I was withoutthere very well. To be honest.17400:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.720I mean a few hours at atime here and there. You don't really17500:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.200get to know somebody that well veryquickly. There were it was kind of17600:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.389a mixed crowd. There were therewere people out there who had who had17700:13:28.429 --> 00:13:31.029had abortions in the PA. Askedand I could definitely see an aspect of17800:13:31.549 --> 00:13:41.429trying to justify that. There werepeople from the quote unquote, lgbt culture17900:13:41.429 --> 00:13:48.019or community there who would see somesolidarity with the quote unquote women's rights stuff18000:13:48.179 --> 00:13:54.419and basically fighting, I guess,like acting as allies as they were they18100:13:54.460 --> 00:13:58.649would call themselves, and they wereeven, believe it or not, there18200:13:58.809 --> 00:14:05.450was one woman in particular who wasthere nearly every day around the time that18300:14:05.490 --> 00:14:07.850I was out there, and shewould actually tell you that she was a18400:14:07.970 --> 00:14:13.799Catholic and that she didn't personally believein abortion and that she personally would never18500:14:13.960 --> 00:14:20.600have an abortion, but that shebelieved in women's right to access to healthcare,18600:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.509as she called it, or thatthere are just situations that none of18700:14:24.549 --> 00:14:30.429us will ever understand and it's allin God's hands and if they need to18800:14:30.669 --> 00:14:33.710terminate their pregnancies, that God willforgive them. Yeah, that which you18900:14:33.789 --> 00:14:37.309know. We've heard that passens oftime. Yes, so as you're there19000:14:37.429 --> 00:14:43.899with all of these people, wein some manner supporting abortion. was was19100:14:43.980 --> 00:14:48.019your conscience pricked it all? Werethere things that you were thinking that,19200:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.379hey, I agree with that,or were you turning away from some of19300:14:52.419 --> 00:14:56.049these thoughts and world world views?So my heart was pretty hard at the19400:14:56.090 --> 00:15:01.850time, to be honest, andI I would have called myself a I19500:15:01.090 --> 00:15:07.840would have sided with the the lgbtcommunity a lot at the time. And19600:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.600and you speak about that. Whatit? What I aspect of it?19700:15:09.639 --> 00:15:15.200I'm curious to so feeling of persecutionor what is it that? Well,19800:15:15.360 --> 00:15:20.879so it was personal for me becauseI was actually personally involved in the Gay19900:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.870Trans Culture here in Charlotte for forquite a few years. That's another that's20000:15:24.870 --> 00:15:31.190another rabbit hole into the dark historythat is Kevin. Yeah, so because20100:15:31.309 --> 00:15:39.019of my own experience and the thelifestyle that I had pursued for a time,20200:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.100I would have considered myself one ofthose allies trying to defend people from20300:15:43.139 --> 00:15:46.740bigotry, I guess you could say. And did you look at at anti20400:15:46.860 --> 00:15:50.129abortion work as a type of bigotrythen? Oh, yeah, yeah,20500:15:50.210 --> 00:15:54.570yeah, for sure. Yeah.I mean, so you, Vicki,20600:15:54.690 --> 00:16:00.049are actually the only person that Iwell, you and flip are the only20700:16:00.129 --> 00:16:06.159two people that I specifically can rememberseeing and hearing out on the sidewalk.20800:16:06.519 --> 00:16:07.960And I mean, like I said, at the time that I was out20900:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.120there doing that, my my heartwas pretty hard on the subject and against21000:16:12.159 --> 00:16:15.840God, and I just thought youguys were just the worst people ever.21100:16:17.120 --> 00:16:22.750Like I thought you just I honestlycouldn't put into words why I thought you21200:16:22.789 --> 00:16:26.230were actually out there, but Ijust thought you guys were terrible, like21300:16:26.350 --> 00:16:30.710I thought that there was almost nothingworse that you that you could do than21400:16:30.750 --> 00:16:34.059to be out there on the sidewalkshaming these women who had you just have21500:16:34.220 --> 00:16:38.019no resources and have nobody to helpthem, and all of the all of21600:16:38.059 --> 00:16:42.179the justifications that you can think of. So, and was that common?21700:16:42.379 --> 00:16:47.100was that the common perception of thepeople on the pro life side from the21800:16:47.169 --> 00:16:48.210people on the pro choice side?It is, yeah, it is.21900:16:48.370 --> 00:16:52.730Yeah, it's very it's very blackand white from what I from what I22000:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.889saw personally. Yeah. So,yeah, one of the things that I've22100:16:56.090 --> 00:17:02.519encouraged our volunteers with is this ideathat when they, when the pro choice,22200:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.039when the pro abortion people, opposeyou, they're not really opposing you22300:17:06.440 --> 00:17:11.319personally. They're opposing an idea.You represent to them what is wrong with22400:17:11.519 --> 00:17:17.869the world. Why? Christian SIS, gender male's and Republicans or whatever.22500:17:17.950 --> 00:17:19.789They have in their mind that yourepresent, even if you're were the woman,22600:17:19.869 --> 00:17:23.630and yeah, would the conservative White, Christian, SIS, gendered male22700:17:23.829 --> 00:17:30.019is the enemy of everything that's rightand good from that side. Is is22800:17:30.140 --> 00:17:32.819that true, though, in thatmentality, is it? It's not really22900:17:32.900 --> 00:17:36.619an attack on on individuals, onVicki, for example, but only really23000:17:36.660 --> 00:17:38.859an idea what you stand for.You stand for everything that's wrong with the23100:17:38.940 --> 00:17:41.980world or whatever. Is that kindof yeah, the the sense that you've23200:17:42.019 --> 00:17:45.250gotten, it's being on that side. It's an aspect of the culture war.23300:17:45.650 --> 00:17:52.809Yeah, for sure. And andultimately what I was rebelling against and23400:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.970fighting against, and I think thatultimately what a lot of the people that23500:17:56.009 --> 00:18:00.680are involved in that on that sideof the fence are there. They're not,23600:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.759like you said, they're not rebellingagainst you specifically or, like me23700:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.480specifically, they are angry at God. Yeah, ultimately is what well,23800:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.950I was anyways, and from talkingto other people that were involved in that,23900:18:17.069 --> 00:18:19.789I can I can gather that senseto from from other people that I24000:18:19.869 --> 00:18:25.309saw. Yeah, so just goingback just a little bit, and I24100:18:25.390 --> 00:18:29.859think you told me this before,your involvement with the pro choice movement as24200:18:29.900 --> 00:18:32.460a escort. And just for thosewho are listening to kind of paint a24300:18:32.539 --> 00:18:36.299picture, and I think we dida little bit in our previous podcast episode24400:18:36.339 --> 00:18:41.650about dealing with the pro abortion peoplebiblically. The picture here at latrobe and24500:18:41.730 --> 00:18:44.890it's like this in a couple ofother abortion centers across the nation. I'm24600:18:44.890 --> 00:18:48.289not sure about all of them,but some of them where there's folks that24700:18:48.369 --> 00:18:52.569call themselves clinic escorts. So theytypically have vests own, a pink vest24800:18:52.609 --> 00:18:56.599or a bright orange vest or abright yellow vest. Kevin actually brought his24900:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.440former vest with him to show itto us today. But they have their25000:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.200vests own and their job is toescort the women from their car to the25100:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.480door or from the sidewalk to thedoor of the abortion center, use an25200:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.309umbrella to block them from being ableto see or and engage with the pro25300:19:10.470 --> 00:19:12.269life people that are there. Yep, and then we have out here.25400:19:12.349 --> 00:19:15.910So we've got those people to clinicescorts, and that's what you were,25500:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.069you were in part. That's that'swhat I I was. I was one25600:19:18.109 --> 00:19:22.670of the escorts with an umbrella,walking women from the car to the door,25700:19:22.710 --> 00:19:26.259yeah, and back if needed,if and if they would allow you25800:19:26.380 --> 00:19:30.059to. Some of them didn't.Yeah, wanted thing to do with even25900:19:30.059 --> 00:19:33.140the people in the parking lot.Sure, and in you guys weren't encouraged26000:19:33.140 --> 00:19:37.059at all. A matter of fact, you probably discourage from engaging with the26100:19:37.460 --> 00:19:40.690air quotes pro life protesters. Correct, are right. In the training,26200:19:40.769 --> 00:19:44.930the little crash training thing that theydid with a group of us when I26300:19:45.089 --> 00:19:49.890first started out, they essentially toldus to to just provide support and a26400:19:51.009 --> 00:19:55.119shield to the quote unquote patients.Yeah, and two, more or less26500:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.720ignore the people, the crazy peopleout on the sidewalk. Yes, as26600:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.519the woman who was kind of thering leader at the time, yeah,26700:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.549said. Yeah, and so youwere involved with that. The clinic escorting26800:20:07.589 --> 00:20:11.109aspect. Here, though, there'skind of two aspects. From the pro26900:20:11.150 --> 00:20:12.789abortion people, there are those whoare, I think they call themselves clinic27000:20:12.869 --> 00:20:18.230defenders where they're actively engaging with us, actively like putting signs in our faces,27100:20:18.269 --> 00:20:22.859yell and trying to engage in conversations. It's typically antagonistic, yes,27200:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.579and it's designed to throw us offand get our focus on them and we27300:20:26.660 --> 00:20:29.299won't go there. But just soyou guys who are listening kind of understand27400:20:29.299 --> 00:20:33.819the picture, Kevin was involved inthe clinic escorting aspect and in that aspect27500:20:33.940 --> 00:20:38.650and just walking the women from theircar in this scenario, because they're pulling27600:20:38.690 --> 00:20:44.410into the parking lot, to thedoor. Are there any conversations that you27700:20:44.569 --> 00:20:48.490had with the people walking them tothe door that had to do with,27800:20:48.529 --> 00:20:52.920I don't know, maybe conversations thathad you second guessing your presence there and27900:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.599second guessing your support for abortion?Actually, there was almost no interaction.28000:20:57.799 --> 00:21:03.440Oh it, at least in myexperience. The the vast majority of the28100:21:03.279 --> 00:21:10.990women that I would walk next totowards the building didn't really say anything at28200:21:11.029 --> 00:21:15.710all to me. Some of themwould would wave you away and and basically28300:21:15.710 --> 00:21:18.019say you don't I don't need anyhelp, I'm good. Yeah, but28400:21:18.460 --> 00:21:25.099really there was there was no therewas no real interaction or conversation and that's28500:21:25.099 --> 00:21:30.619another thing that we were discouraged fromreally interacting with these women at all.28600:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.930We were just supposed to be thereto be a again, a quote unquote28700:21:33.970 --> 00:21:41.089shield if wanted. Yeah. So, no, and and, to be28800:21:41.170 --> 00:21:45.769honest with you, aside from noticingjust how dark and sad the inside of28900:21:45.849 --> 00:21:51.400that building felt, because I dodistinctly remember that. Yeah, I wanted29000:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.519to go there and just kind ofget your sense of all of that,29100:21:53.720 --> 00:21:59.240the atmosphere and and how it madeyou feel and then, ultimately, what29200:21:59.359 --> 00:22:00.710led you away from that place.So, yeah, keep on that vein.29300:22:00.869 --> 00:22:06.750So the I don't know how itis now. I don't really notice29400:22:07.029 --> 00:22:11.190a lot of people that aren't eitherpaid security guards or customers going in and29500:22:11.269 --> 00:22:15.940out of the building. But I'mnot just watching the parking lot escorts all29600:22:15.019 --> 00:22:19.740morning or all afternoon. But atthe time we were allowed to go inside29700:22:19.819 --> 00:22:25.259to use the restroom in the lobbyif we needed to, and we were29800:22:25.460 --> 00:22:26.980basically instructed, you know, ifyou go in, just go in,29900:22:27.099 --> 00:22:30.529come right back out. Don't,you know, interact with anybody. Leave30000:22:30.569 --> 00:22:36.529everybody alone. And so I I'vebeen inside of that building with the hand30100:22:36.609 --> 00:22:40.289waiting room be crowded as you're what? Sometimes so you're seeing a whole lineup30200:22:40.369 --> 00:22:42.210or sometimes, yeah, clusters ofwomen. Yeah, when you walk in30300:22:42.250 --> 00:22:45.279the door there at the time,I don't know if they've changed anything and30400:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.640in several years, but it waslike a waiting room with chairs, basically30500:22:49.759 --> 00:22:55.519rows of chairs. We're kindle crying, would you see? I I'm more30600:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.519or less tried to keep my headdown and mind my own business because that's30700:22:57.519 --> 00:23:03.150what I was instructed to do.But just flashing back memory of opening that30800:23:03.269 --> 00:23:07.390door, walking into the bathroom andand being inside of that building for a30900:23:07.430 --> 00:23:11.390few minutes of time, it just, first off, it's it's not a31000:23:12.259 --> 00:23:18.059it's it's not a bright and cheeryenvironment by any means and it does just31100:23:18.380 --> 00:23:22.700feel wrong even in your heart andstate at that point. You Yeah,31200:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.099even then, I've even then Inoticed it, I would I more or31300:23:26.140 --> 00:23:30.009less ignored it and rejected it anddidn't, you know, think anything of31400:23:30.089 --> 00:23:33.609it at the time. But lookingback on it years later, I can31500:23:33.650 --> 00:23:37.650I can understand why it felt likethat. Yeah, but honestly, in31600:23:37.769 --> 00:23:41.000the in the short amount of timethat I was involved out there on a31700:23:41.039 --> 00:23:48.920daily basis, there wasn't really anythingspecifically that led me to stop doing that.31800:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.480And at the time, and evenfor a couple of years after,31900:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.230I still would have well, notfor a couple of years, for the32000:23:56.309 --> 00:24:00.549next year or so after that,I still would have said that I supported32100:24:00.630 --> 00:24:03.670it. But basically I burned myselfout. I jumped in and was there32200:24:03.750 --> 00:24:10.940like every single day for an hourto several hours, just for long periods32300:24:10.940 --> 00:24:15.619of time and and essentially, Ithink this just came into my head.32400:24:15.619 --> 00:24:19.140Actually, I haven't really thought thisbefore, but I think what happened was32500:24:19.740 --> 00:24:26.009once I realized that it wasn't healingthe conviction that I had that I was32600:24:26.170 --> 00:24:30.849trying to fix by volunteering and doublingdown on the sin, I abandoned it32700:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.890because it wasn't benefiting me the waythat I thought it would. Yeah,32800:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.569how is your wife responding to youbeing a clinic s scored and then to32900:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.680when you left? Yeah, soher her story is complicated, of course,33000:24:41.759 --> 00:24:48.400like everybody else's. She she essentially, ever since we've been together,33100:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.750has more or less supported me andwhatever I wanted to do, and some33200:24:52.910 --> 00:24:57.069of that being good and some ofthat being bad, but she's she's never33300:24:57.230 --> 00:25:03.269really pushed back against me and therewere times when she absolutely should have,33400:25:03.589 --> 00:25:10.220and that's that's her shortcoming. Myshortcomings are greater, I think. So33500:25:10.259 --> 00:25:12.140I'm not throwing her under the busby any means, sure, but but33600:25:12.819 --> 00:25:17.019you know, at the time shewould have said, well, that's that's33700:25:17.059 --> 00:25:21.450good that you're supporting women's rights andand trying to help people or something.33800:25:21.529 --> 00:25:26.650Although throughout our entire relationship she wouldnever deny God, and I tried to33900:25:26.730 --> 00:25:30.410get her to several times because Ihad, yeah, the beginning, the34000:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.410first few years of of US knowingeach other, I was again very like34100:25:34.609 --> 00:25:41.960hardcore open rebellion against against God andagainst Christianity specifically. So there were many34200:25:41.000 --> 00:25:47.200times when I tried to pull herdown with me and she would never she34300:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.509would never go along with me thatfar. She would always say, well,34400:25:49.589 --> 00:25:52.789I still pray and I still believethat God loves me. And she34500:25:53.430 --> 00:25:57.710fell away and rebelled in a similarway that I did. But she never34600:25:57.829 --> 00:26:00.269denied God the way that I did, and I don't I don't know what34700:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.420that means one way or the other, but she didn't try to talk me34800:26:04.460 --> 00:26:07.019out of it, she didn't tryto talk me into it. She was34900:26:07.140 --> 00:26:11.940more or less neutral. Yeah,was there anything you ever heard from the35000:26:11.539 --> 00:26:17.380pro life side that gave you pause, that made you stop and say,35100:26:17.380 --> 00:26:21.890HMM, maybe they're making a decentpoint? Or did you? And did35200:26:21.930 --> 00:26:25.730you believe that we were lying aboutall the help we were offering? So35300:26:26.569 --> 00:26:34.240I did believe that. I didbelieve that you were lying. I just35400:26:34.359 --> 00:26:37.920for the record, now that you'reon the other side, are we lying35500:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.960about that, Kevin? Now,okay, and I did. We we35600:26:42.119 --> 00:26:48.430always all the people on the onthe pro choice really pro abortion. Right35700:26:48.630 --> 00:26:52.029where where the real pro choicers here? Honestly, they are protect life for35800:26:52.109 --> 00:26:53.750them. Yeah, pro choice,yes, yes, the they, the35900:26:55.190 --> 00:26:56.910people on the other side, orjust pro death. But they you know,36000:26:56.950 --> 00:27:00.309they still say it every day.You guys are all just paid to36100:27:00.390 --> 00:27:03.460be out here. You wouldn't comeout here in volunteer your time, although36200:27:03.500 --> 00:27:06.700they claim that they do. SoI don't know why they can't afford us36300:27:06.700 --> 00:27:10.460the same ability to be charitable.But but yeah, it was the same36400:27:10.579 --> 00:27:12.940then. We all said all they'reprobably all just being paid to be activists36500:27:14.059 --> 00:27:18.329and all they the thing that you'llhear a lot is all those people care36600:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.730about is the baby being born.They don't actually care about anything after that.36700:27:22.329 --> 00:27:26.369The same kind of nonsense arguments thatwe hear every day out here today.36800:27:26.450 --> 00:27:30.680Still, it hasn't really changed much, to be honest. PROBIRD,36900:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.920there was right, right, butyeah, there was all that. I37000:27:34.119 --> 00:27:38.279thought that. But there was thereever anything that that made you think,37100:27:38.319 --> 00:27:47.670HMM, maybe I'm wrong about something, to be honest, not from the37200:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.950cities for life crew out there thatstuff again, like I said, my37300:27:51.029 --> 00:27:53.349heart was pretty hardened against that atthat point in time. A year or37400:27:53.470 --> 00:27:59.900so later my worldview would start todrift a little bit more, a little37500:27:59.900 --> 00:28:03.099bit more conservative from where it wasat that time. But my at that37600:28:03.220 --> 00:28:07.940time there was nothing anybody could saythat would convince me that I was wrong37700:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.019about the truth. Yeah, soyou left in your world view started to37800:28:11.099 --> 00:28:14.930shift. What what was costing thatshift? Do you do? You know?37900:28:15.210 --> 00:28:17.650Can you talk about that? Sure? I mean. Well, for38000:28:17.769 --> 00:28:25.650starters, I got married and Istarted to and so, just to back38100:28:25.650 --> 00:28:27.599up real quick, all of thisis God that. None of this is38200:28:27.920 --> 00:28:33.880me right. This is all God'sgrace manifesting in my life, right,38300:28:34.119 --> 00:28:38.200and that's something that I'm that Itry to be grateful for every day.38400:28:38.680 --> 00:28:45.390But essentially my experience has been that, over a course of a few years,38500:28:45.190 --> 00:28:52.549several years really. I was drawnto him slowly and the turning point38600:28:52.150 --> 00:28:59.619was getting married prior to committing,finally committing to my wife. After a38700:29:00.099 --> 00:29:04.700couple, couple three years of prettymuch flip flopping on her and running around38800:29:04.700 --> 00:29:08.140and abandoning her and all of thesekinds of things, I finally committed to38900:29:08.180 --> 00:29:12.130marry her and have been faithful toher. We have been faithful to one39000:29:12.130 --> 00:29:17.930another ever since and have worked togetheras a team to put our family together39100:29:17.970 --> 00:29:22.410the way that it should have beenfrom the start and to repair some of39200:29:22.490 --> 00:29:27.519the damage that we did to eachother. And at the beginning of that39300:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.480I would have just looked looked atthat again, like three or four years39400:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.359ago. I would have just lookedat it from like a humanistic perspective,39500:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.640saying, well, I'm just tryingto be a good person and do what's39600:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.750right because I care about this person, still denying that God had anything to39700:29:41.829 --> 00:29:48.230do with that. But basically,over the course of about four years,39800:29:48.309 --> 00:29:56.099after getting married and making a makinga real commitment to this person who I39900:29:56.220 --> 00:30:00.299had harmed in the past, Islow lily started to settle down, basically,40000:30:00.539 --> 00:30:08.650and my views slowly started to changeand I started taking more perspectives into40100:30:10.369 --> 00:30:15.690consideration. Basically, so I startedto abandon the some of the destructive lifestyle40200:30:15.769 --> 00:30:21.089choices that I had been involved infor years. Promiscuity again, the the40300:30:21.210 --> 00:30:26.440whole gay and transactivism and lifestyle sideof things, drug abuse, all of40400:30:26.559 --> 00:30:33.920that sort of stuff. And asmy life slowed down and I opened my40500:30:33.079 --> 00:30:40.670mind to other perspectives, the truthkind of slowly grew back in me.40600:30:40.750 --> 00:30:42.910I guess is I don't know ifthat's a good way to put it,40700:30:44.309 --> 00:30:47.789but but it took years. Imean, you know well. I mean40800:30:47.869 --> 00:30:51.940that they're as you know, beforewe started this podcast I said, man,40900:30:52.220 --> 00:30:55.140we're looking to encourage people who areout there on the sidewalk. We're41000:30:55.180 --> 00:30:57.180not looking to bash the pro abortionpeople. We're not looking to show how41100:30:57.220 --> 00:31:02.140much better we are than them,although, by God's grace he's changed us41200:31:02.259 --> 00:31:04.450and we, I think, are. I think we're more open minded in41300:31:04.490 --> 00:31:08.089a lot of ways. But Idid want to hit on and what you're41400:31:08.089 --> 00:31:11.089talking about, I think gives hopeto people who are on the sidewalk,41500:31:11.210 --> 00:31:15.970prolifers, who are dealing with theseclinic escorts, these pro abortion people opposing41600:31:17.009 --> 00:31:19.359them and just infuse you guys alittle bit of hope that God is working41700:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.279behind the scenes. I mean,Kevin, God was working on you while41800:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.319you were escorting those women, exactly, even though what you were doing was41900:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.200when direct opposition to God's Word andyou were rebellion to him, he by42000:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.950His mercy and grace, didn't leaveyou. He was pursuing you and he42100:31:33.109 --> 00:31:37.589is sovereign. Yeah, so he'smoving. You know, I've heard it42200:31:37.750 --> 00:31:41.509said that God can strike straight blowswith crooked sticks. Yeah, and we're42300:31:41.509 --> 00:31:47.220all crooked sticks. Yeah. Sowe've talked a lot. Every you,42400:31:47.339 --> 00:31:51.220Vicky and Daniel, and everybody's talkeda lot, especially the last few weeks42500:31:51.220 --> 00:31:56.019with the influx of pro abortion advocatesout there, about trying to trying not42600:31:56.059 --> 00:32:00.529to focus on them, but onething that I try to reach out to42700:32:00.569 --> 00:32:04.730them with if I end up inany sort of interaction with them, is42800:32:05.529 --> 00:32:08.730look, there is absolutely hope foryou, because there was hope for me42900:32:09.289 --> 00:32:15.609because only a few short years ago, I believed and and did the exact43000:32:15.650 --> 00:32:19.519same things that you believe and thatyou were doing, and God has changed43100:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.599my life and he has changed me. Yeah, which is that's that's so43200:32:22.720 --> 00:32:27.400incredible. That that God is ableto take your testimony and you are unique43300:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.230at out there. As far asI know, you're the only x escort43400:32:30.309 --> 00:32:34.990that we hopefully not forever, thatwe have out there. Hopefully not forever.43500:32:35.230 --> 00:32:38.670But but you can speak from yourexperience to no one can deny what43600:32:38.950 --> 00:32:42.670your experience. Well, they cancall me a liar, but that's the43700:32:42.710 --> 00:32:45.380only thing they can do. Likeone of the one of the guys out43800:32:45.380 --> 00:32:47.980there, either last week or theweek before, was when we got into43900:32:47.980 --> 00:32:54.940a conversation, he said something abouthe basically alluded to the idea that I44000:32:55.380 --> 00:33:00.730had never struggled and that I didn'thave any position to be speaking on any44100:33:00.769 --> 00:33:05.049of these topics at all, andI basically just had to say look,44200:33:05.130 --> 00:33:07.809man like, I grew up ina trailer park, I was a drug44300:33:07.849 --> 00:33:13.279addict, I was involved in sexualdeviant lifestyles. I was homeless for two44400:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.480hours, I think I was.I was homeless. I like. I44500:33:16.640 --> 00:33:21.799believe man like the silence. That'sthe first time in his tirade. Yeah,44600:33:21.799 --> 00:33:23.480that I was there at the thetime and he just couldn't speak.44700:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.509But God is in control. Yeah, ultimately, and you know, he44800:33:28.829 --> 00:33:31.990saw fit. For what reason?I don't know other than that he loves44900:33:32.029 --> 00:33:37.109me, to extend His grace andmercy to me and to change my life,45000:33:37.190 --> 00:33:43.140and I firmly believe that he willabsolutely do that for multitudes of other45100:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.819people as well. I'm not uniquein that aspect. Yeah, so,45200:33:46.059 --> 00:33:50.660yeah, I mean we're talking abouta unique scenario. We're dealing with pro45300:33:50.740 --> 00:33:54.019abortion advocates and even beyond just proabortion advocates, we're dealing with people who45400:33:54.059 --> 00:33:59.210are literally on the front lines tryingto oppose us, who are advocating for45500:33:59.369 --> 00:34:04.450life. So that's kind of astep beyond we're most quote pro choice people45600:34:04.450 --> 00:34:07.490will go. Most people play stayin the political realm. Sure, so,45700:34:07.650 --> 00:34:09.639post on facebook about it. Exactlyit. So you want a step45800:34:09.679 --> 00:34:14.039further than most people. But thatdoesn't mean that. I mean God.45900:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.159In all kinds of realms, whenpeople take things to an extreme, God46000:34:17.320 --> 00:34:22.000is saving people. God is savingSatanist God is saving abortion doctors. Yeah,46100:34:22.199 --> 00:34:28.909testimonies of abortion doctors are numerous.Former abortion workers testimony these of those46200:34:28.909 --> 00:34:30.949folks coming out of the abortion industryare numerous. But even beyond abortion,46300:34:31.349 --> 00:34:36.750homosexual lifestyle, all of these lifestylesthat are seeped in sin, God is46400:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.380rescuing and saving people from. SoI want to encourage those who are listening,46500:34:39.420 --> 00:34:42.940who are on the sidewalks, whoare dealing with some of these folks,46600:34:43.300 --> 00:34:45.900to not lose hope and to notgive up. Listen, we can't46700:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.099be we can't be as bigoted asas they claim that we are, and,46800:34:50.380 --> 00:34:52.460as a matter of fact, manyof those folks are. I mean,46900:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.650I've talked to some some pretty bigotedpeople over the years. Oh yeah,47000:34:54.650 --> 00:34:58.650and most of them are on theproach boy side. We can''t be47100:34:58.769 --> 00:35:00.650like that. We can't be closeminded, righting people off just because they47200:35:00.690 --> 00:35:05.010stand on one side of an issue, that somehow there's no hope for them.47300:35:05.570 --> 00:35:07.440That's not the way God operates.Yeah, so we can't embrace that47400:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.880mentality. We need to always now, there does come a point where I47500:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.880think we need to stop having aconversation with someone when they're just being unnecessarily47600:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.400antagonistic and all of that. Surenot let the pro abortion people be in47700:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.309distraction. Well, we should nevergive up hope that these people can come47800:35:22.389 --> 00:35:27.030to know the Lord, because ifhe saved me, then I know he47900:35:27.110 --> 00:35:29.550can save them, and that's kindof what you're saying. Kevin. You48000:35:29.710 --> 00:35:32.309got rescued me and he can rescuethem. So, as believers we shouldn't48100:35:32.309 --> 00:35:36.139give up hope. Yep, butthat's why I'm now. I'm sorry.48200:35:36.260 --> 00:35:40.340I also, like I think it'svery encouraging that you said it wasn't really48300:35:40.380 --> 00:35:45.619anything that we said or did,it was God and and certainly I'm sure48400:35:45.619 --> 00:35:50.130our presence there had to have affectedyou in some way. Sure, but48500:35:50.530 --> 00:35:57.250that that change is through God andand so I was just being there and48600:35:57.369 --> 00:36:01.329being faithful and praying for those prochoice people, which we do. So48700:36:01.690 --> 00:36:06.519is having an effect, and oneeffect that I can say that it had.48800:36:06.960 --> 00:36:13.760I'm thankful that you guys were outthere at the time because years later,48900:36:14.559 --> 00:36:22.349when my worldview had finally shifted massivelyand my heart had changed and my49000:36:22.550 --> 00:36:30.909life had been changed, the topicof abortion as a an area of Christian49100:36:30.949 --> 00:36:37.460ministry came back into my sphere ofinfluence. Yeah, and the first thing49200:36:37.699 --> 00:36:42.420that came to mind was, well, there were people out there doing that49300:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.699ministry years ago that I saw,and how can I get involved? I49400:36:45.860 --> 00:36:50.010was going to ask you how didyou come the full circle to come back49500:36:50.090 --> 00:36:52.849on another side of the sidewalk,which is really I'd love to hear that49600:36:53.090 --> 00:37:00.250story. So after again, alongseveral years process, a couple of years49700:37:00.250 --> 00:37:05.719ago, in late two thousand andeighteen, I came to the point where49800:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.119I would again start professing to bea believer. I don't I don't have49900:37:09.320 --> 00:37:14.000like a this is my born againdate or something like that. It was50000:37:14.239 --> 00:37:19.510a period of several months where Godwas really on my heart and he put50100:37:20.070 --> 00:37:24.630some specific people in my life todisciple me and minister to me and kind50200:37:24.670 --> 00:37:29.510of push me in the right directionand to keep me on that topic.50300:37:29.949 --> 00:37:32.380But by the end of two thousandand eighteen, if you asked, I50400:37:32.420 --> 00:37:35.820would tell you that I was aChristian, I was reading the Bible,50500:37:35.860 --> 00:37:39.300I was praying with my family,I was we were looking for a church50600:37:39.539 --> 00:37:44.769and I was settling back into thereality that the things that I had been50700:37:44.849 --> 00:37:47.530taught as a child we're actually,for the most part true and that I50800:37:47.690 --> 00:37:53.170needed to pursue that. And ofcourse, along with that comes looking,50900:37:53.369 --> 00:37:59.840seeking out new material, new newPODCASTS, new preachers to follow, and51000:38:00.320 --> 00:38:06.400I got turned on to a ministrycalled apology of studios, with apology at51100:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.519Church Out in Arizona, Jeff Durban. Yes, guests, Jeff Durban and51200:38:09.639 --> 00:38:15.469all of those guys. And afterlistening to again someone, someone turned me51300:38:15.510 --> 00:38:16.030onto that and said, hey,you should check this out, this,51400:38:16.269 --> 00:38:21.510this will, this will give yousome some insight into what you're pursuing.51500:38:22.030 --> 00:38:28.260And one of the big things thatthey're involved with is the abortion ministry,51600:38:28.539 --> 00:38:36.139with their ind abortion now ministry.And so that pricked my heart because for51700:38:36.219 --> 00:38:38.780a couple of years I had basicallyjust been dark on the subject, wasn't51800:38:38.900 --> 00:38:44.610really concerned about it. But nowcoming at it from a Christian perspective and51900:38:44.769 --> 00:38:51.250having that brought back to my attentionand thinking, well, this is if,52000:38:51.289 --> 00:38:55.960if I truly am going to honorGod, I I need to I52100:38:57.079 --> 00:39:00.880need to be active in some waydoing something to serve him and doing something52200:39:00.039 --> 00:39:07.199to share him and and all ofthat. And so after after watching what52300:39:07.800 --> 00:39:12.150apologia was doing with their abortion millministry, I really got convicted to get52400:39:12.190 --> 00:39:16.670involved, which is actually really funnybecause the person that convicted Jeff Durban to52500:39:16.750 --> 00:39:22.710get involved in the abortion Mil Ministrywas Lisa Metsker. Yeah, okay,52600:39:22.789 --> 00:39:27.099and she's convicted me also. Yeah, and so she's one of the founders52700:39:27.139 --> 00:39:30.619of the ministry that's happening here inCharlotte right, and so it's just crazy52800:39:30.659 --> 00:39:34.619how things come full circle. Like, yeah, like I it wouldn't be52900:39:34.699 --> 00:39:37.570until months later, after I waskind of in the process of trying to53000:39:37.610 --> 00:39:43.530come on board with cities for life, that I heard Jeff Durban talking about53100:39:43.650 --> 00:39:49.690something and Lisa Metsker came up andI went that same sounds familiar and obviously,53200:39:49.769 --> 00:39:52.250like I've seen her involved in thisstuff and, you know, follow53300:39:52.289 --> 00:39:55.480her on facebook and stuff like that. So it's kind of crazy how how53400:39:55.599 --> 00:40:00.679things get around like that. Butthat was really it. Listening to their53500:40:00.760 --> 00:40:06.000ministry and seeing what they were doingconvicted me. And then again I suddenly53600:40:06.039 --> 00:40:07.909realized, well, there were peopleout there doing that right here in Charlotte53700:40:08.309 --> 00:40:12.309when I was on the other side, when I was opposing them, and53800:40:12.949 --> 00:40:15.789if they're still doing that, isthere any way that I can get involved?53900:40:15.110 --> 00:40:20.550And it didn't happen quickly. Ireached out to you like a year54000:40:20.550 --> 00:40:22.420ago before you stay. Yeah,I think over a year ago. Yeah,54100:40:23.179 --> 00:40:28.340and started to come on board andthen fell out of touch and not54200:40:28.460 --> 00:40:30.739busy with other things and didn't kindand then I came back to it at54300:40:30.780 --> 00:40:35.380the beginning of this year and andof course, that was when this whole54400:40:35.420 --> 00:40:37.849coronavirus thing was blowing up and youguys are like, well, we're kind54500:40:37.849 --> 00:40:40.489of on hold right now trying tosee what's going on. I was like54600:40:40.530 --> 00:40:44.329all right, cool. So Iwaited until a few months later and then54700:40:44.489 --> 00:40:49.449finally kind of midsummer this year actuallynot to personally come out and have a54800:40:49.769 --> 00:40:52.519have a what do you call it? A ride along? Yeah, I54900:40:52.599 --> 00:40:54.920don't know, shadowing. Yeah,a shadowing day and go through some of55000:40:54.960 --> 00:41:00.000the training and and it's been Imean, it's not fun, obviously,55100:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.510but right. And it's reboarding thoughit is, it is rewarding. Yeah,55200:41:04.510 --> 00:41:09.070it's very it can be very taxingand it can be hard, but55300:41:09.909 --> 00:41:15.150it is I mean, just inmy short experience doing this, it's been55400:41:15.190 --> 00:41:17.469absolutely worth it. Yeah, Ilike it an into a workout. You55500:41:17.550 --> 00:41:22.019know, you think about a lotof Christians. Their spiritual muscles aren't really55600:41:22.099 --> 00:41:23.460used very much. So there's nota whole lot of you. When you55700:41:23.539 --> 00:41:28.579work out, you're pushing against somethingright, and our Christian culture in America55800:41:28.699 --> 00:41:31.059we're really not taught to push againstsomething. We're taught to really kind of55900:41:31.099 --> 00:41:35.809go with things right or to kindof be I don't know behind the scenes56000:41:35.849 --> 00:41:39.210and not really confront and to comeout and confront evil where it takes place.56100:41:39.409 --> 00:41:44.769It really does stretch spiritual muscles andyou'll grow in areas that you otherwise56200:41:44.809 --> 00:41:49.400wouldn't grow with that tension, withthat you know really that that confrontation.56300:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.320Yeah, you were in the midstof going to ask you just personal curiosity.56400:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.079So, having come from that side, do you find when you face56500:41:58.239 --> 00:42:02.269least them, when you face thepro abortion group, do you feel empathy56600:42:02.309 --> 00:42:07.789or anger or a mix of bothor what? What are you feeling as56700:42:07.829 --> 00:42:13.869you regard them? I think it'sunique based on the personality of the other56800:42:14.070 --> 00:42:17.860person. But honestly, for themost part I feel sad, yeah,56900:42:17.980 --> 00:42:25.099with them, because I remember whereI was mentally and emotionally and spiritually when57000:42:25.340 --> 00:42:29.380I was the type of person thatwould be willing to stand out there and57100:42:29.420 --> 00:42:36.730advocate for the murder of children rightand I can honestly look at them and57200:42:37.010 --> 00:42:40.889see what was in me in theireyes, and it's not it's not so57300:42:42.329 --> 00:42:46.239long ago that I can't remember itpretty vividly. And some of them,57400:42:46.480 --> 00:42:50.039some of them, will spark youranger a little bit with some of the57500:42:50.760 --> 00:42:57.639ridiculous and horrible things that they'll say, but honestly, talking to them and57600:42:57.840 --> 00:43:02.309interacting with them in any way,it does. It is emotional. Yeah,57700:43:02.309 --> 00:43:06.909yeah, well, I'm sure itgrieves God's heart and we are to57800:43:07.030 --> 00:43:09.590grieve for what greeps God. Yeah, so, yeah, well, you57900:43:09.710 --> 00:43:14.179have just in the last couple ofminutes that we have, because wrapped this58000:43:14.260 --> 00:43:17.219thing up in just a minute.You have a unique perspective that I don't58100:43:17.260 --> 00:43:21.980have. They think you don't havethat. Many people are listening don't have.58200:43:22.219 --> 00:43:25.860And in that not only, again, were you approach choice advocate that58300:43:25.980 --> 00:43:30.090advocated in the political around, butyou are actually they are at the abortion58400:43:30.250 --> 00:43:34.050center, actively advocating for, asyou said, the murder of children.58500:43:34.449 --> 00:43:38.409So you have that perspective and thennow you're actively advocating for lives to be58600:43:38.489 --> 00:43:43.039saved and protected and bringing the gospelof these places. You have these two58700:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.880perspectives that a lot of people don'thave. Is there anything you could say58800:43:46.119 --> 00:43:50.599to prolife people, in particular,people that are on the sidewalk at an58900:43:50.599 --> 00:43:53.199abortion center, that you think thatwe hadn't already covered would be helpful for59000:43:53.360 --> 00:44:00.550them to know, to understand fromthose perspectives? I think that I think59100:44:00.590 --> 00:44:07.110a lot of them are fairly intelligentpeople, okay, and I honestly think59200:44:07.349 --> 00:44:13.300that if more of them would opentheir minds and study the subject a little59300:44:13.300 --> 00:44:17.940bit more thoroughly and with really withan open mind and not not looking at59400:44:19.059 --> 00:44:22.739everything that they that they see aboutabortion as an attack against abortion, but59500:44:23.489 --> 00:44:28.969if they would really open their heartsand minds and try to understand what is59600:44:29.090 --> 00:44:32.889going on inside of those buildings,I I think that a lot of them59700:44:34.050 --> 00:44:40.760could be turned away from you whatthey're doing. But but ultimately it's got59800:44:40.840 --> 00:44:46.960to be God, because what ishappening in that what's happening on that property,59900:44:47.000 --> 00:44:52.349everywhere forward of the property line thatwe don't cross over, whether it's60000:44:52.469 --> 00:44:58.710the pro abortion advocates, the clinicescorts, the security guards whose jobs it60100:44:58.750 --> 00:45:01.510is to be there and try toprotect people from getting physically assaulted, the60200:45:01.670 --> 00:45:05.869women going in and out of there, the workers going in and out of60300:45:05.909 --> 00:45:13.820there and, ultimately the abortionists whoare actively killing these children. The thing60400:45:14.019 --> 00:45:20.179that is happening on that property isthe suppression of the Truth and on righteousness.60500:45:20.179 --> 00:45:28.369Yeah, absolute and ultimately, withoutGod granting a repentant heart. I60600:45:28.489 --> 00:45:31.650don't. I don't think that wecan truly convince them. Yeah, we60700:45:31.769 --> 00:45:37.440can't pull the scales from their eyes. God has to free them to see.60800:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.960Yeah, and he does. Yeah, you know he does. Yeah.60900:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.840So, ultimately, our place is, as those who believe Jesus is61000:45:45.920 --> 00:45:51.190the answer is to be faithful inbringing the Gospel to these places. Yep,61100:45:51.590 --> 00:45:57.429faithful in proclaiming the Gospel and beingout there on the sidewalk and leaving61200:45:57.510 --> 00:46:00.429it in the hands of the Lord. We literally can't go inside of Kevin's61300:46:00.469 --> 00:46:05.699heart and change it and make himinto a prolifer. I literally can't go61400:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.380inside of Ron Vermonti's heart, theabortions there, and change his heart.61500:46:08.900 --> 00:46:12.539God can do that and that's awork that only the Lord can do.61600:46:13.260 --> 00:46:16.099As as people who love Jesus,are places to be faithful. Yep.61700:46:16.179 --> 00:46:21.289And he says in the in theBible there's a passage that says that God61800:46:21.409 --> 00:46:25.530hates the hands that shed innocent blood, but he also says how beautiful are61900:46:25.570 --> 00:46:30.849the feet of those who share theGospel. And what I have to try62000:46:30.929 --> 00:46:37.239to remind myself is I can't changeanyone's heart, but it is my job62100:46:38.159 --> 00:46:45.000to spread the news. Yeah,to deliver the message and once I deliver62200:46:45.119 --> 00:46:52.429the message, God is the onethat has to make that seed grow.62300:46:52.750 --> 00:46:55.389Yeah, so, yeah, aman, it's great. Amen. Well,62400:46:55.590 --> 00:46:59.110I'm going to wrap it up withthat. That was those good brother62500:46:59.190 --> 00:47:01.619have appreciated wonderful. I know therehave been a lot of people that could62600:47:01.619 --> 00:47:05.460not wait for this day. Theyknew that, they knew about you and62700:47:05.539 --> 00:47:07.579they wanted to hear your story,and there have been already a lot of62800:47:07.619 --> 00:47:12.260people that you have truly encouraged bythe fact that you're out there in the62900:47:12.500 --> 00:47:15.610often terrible weather and terrible circumstances fightingfor life now. Yeah, so I63000:47:15.730 --> 00:47:23.329have to try to avoid allowing mymy pride to make me feel good about63100:47:23.449 --> 00:47:27.929stuff like this because ultimately, like, I don't have anything to be proud63200:47:27.969 --> 00:47:30.519of. The things that I didin my past that led me to where63300:47:30.519 --> 00:47:37.920I am now, for the mostpart, are shameful and I I am63400:47:37.719 --> 00:47:44.710just thankful that something that I saycan be used to help someone else for63500:47:44.909 --> 00:47:49.110good. Amen. And you know, I'm more than willing to and happy63600:47:49.190 --> 00:47:52.429to talk personally with anybody that Imeet out there on the sidewalk about any63700:47:52.510 --> 00:47:55.829of that stuff. But at theend of the day, like I'm just63800:47:55.949 --> 00:48:00.179a guy who send a whole lunchand I'm not anything special. So we're63900:48:00.219 --> 00:48:05.019basically on the same boat, right, exactly. Yeah, Amen, man,64000:48:05.139 --> 00:48:07.420that's that's that's a good words.Again, encouragement there. Brother,64100:48:07.460 --> 00:48:12.820I'll just say practically beyond just youknow, the unique perspective you come from,64200:48:13.650 --> 00:48:16.130just having you out there as ablessing, whether you're formerly a clinic64300:48:16.210 --> 00:48:20.329escort or not, just a blessing, your faithful man. Yep, you64400:48:20.849 --> 00:48:22.769serve wherever we've asked you to serve. You just hopped in there. You64500:48:22.809 --> 00:48:25.449were on the morning team and thenyou said out I'll do the afternoon team64600:48:25.489 --> 00:48:29.239thing to and then you're willing todrive the mobile unit to so it's a64700:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.559blessing just having people like you andlisten what it bows down to, no64800:48:31.639 --> 00:48:37.079matter what realm of ministry we're inor what culture, what background, whatever64900:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.989issue we come from, if Godhas rescued and saved us, as the65000:48:42.030 --> 00:48:45.309scripture says, we're all together,unprofitable servants, just doing what our master65100:48:45.429 --> 00:48:47.829has called us to do. Yeah, this is about the Lord, this65200:48:47.909 --> 00:48:52.150is about his glory and I appreciateyou sharing it. Just giving glory to65300:48:52.190 --> 00:48:54.469God, and so we just encourageyou guys who are listening, glorify God65400:48:54.590 --> 00:48:58.739and what he's doing. Glorify Godand babies that are saved, heart set65500:48:58.820 --> 00:49:01.340or changed lives that are transformed bythe power of the Gospel. In just65600:49:01.500 --> 00:49:05.059the fact that you're able to beout there and serve him on the sidewalk.65700:49:05.300 --> 00:49:08.219Give Glory to God for the opportunitiesthat you have to be his hands,65800:49:08.300 --> 00:49:12.610to be his feet, to havethose beautiful feet and bring the Gospel.65900:49:12.889 --> 00:49:15.010And so we won't encourage you,guys that are listening to do that.66000:49:15.090 --> 00:49:17.809If you haven't yet stepped out ontothe sidewalk at your local abortion center66100:49:19.130 --> 00:49:22.369to be a witness to those momsthat are going into, those dads that66200:49:22.369 --> 00:49:24.800are going into, those pro abortionpeople that are going in. Please just66300:49:24.960 --> 00:49:28.840take that step of faith. Andwe have a podcast we did just a66400:49:28.880 --> 00:49:30.719couple of weeks ago called your firsttime out in an abortion center, where66500:49:30.760 --> 00:49:34.639we talk you through what that mightlook like, some of the unique challenges66600:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.159and all that. We have thesidewalks for life website, sidewalks in number66700:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.750four lifecom where you guys can goand you can find out where your abortion66800:49:40.909 --> 00:49:45.510centers add we have some more stuffcoming you guys have heard about our merger66900:49:45.670 --> 00:49:49.150with love life. Cities for lifeand love life coming together. Just God's67000:49:49.190 --> 00:49:52.380doing some amazing things nashally and there'sgoing to be more tools and things that67100:49:52.460 --> 00:49:55.940we're creating, more content and stuffthat we're putting out. So just look67200:49:55.980 --> 00:49:59.659for that in the future. Butif you want to reach out to me,67300:49:59.699 --> 00:50:01.260as I said at the beginning ofthis podcast, you can email me.67400:50:01.340 --> 00:50:07.019D Parks at cities for lifecom,her vcs orget cities for lifecom.67500:50:07.059 --> 00:50:08.809We'd love to hear from you.Guys. We hope you share this podcast67600:50:08.889 --> 00:50:22.719and until next time, God blesso love for love. Give me our67700:50:22.039 --> 00:50:35.079love for gratitude. I know itwill cost me my life. Nothing's too67800:50:35.360 --> 00:50:37.550precious and some that you