Abortion and Sex Trafficking - Interview with Justice Ministries Founder Mark Blackwell

WEBVTT100:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.480And I am yours, I amyours, I am yours, s and200:00:05.759 --> 00:00:10.029me, Lord. I welcome tothe Gospel Center pro life podcast. In300:00:10.070 --> 00:00:14.470this episode we're going to talk withMark Blackwell from justice ministries about how abortion400:00:14.589 --> 00:00:17.589and sex trafficking go hand in handand how we can help women in those500:00:17.629 --> 00:00:28.300situations. Stay tuned. Send MeLord. I felt show passish touch your600:00:28.820 --> 00:00:36.770home use. Welcome to the GospelCenter pro life podcasts. Appreciate you guys700:00:36.890 --> 00:00:39.729listening. As we promised a coupleof weeks ago, we're going to do800:00:40.369 --> 00:00:44.490this episode and really focus on theissue of sex trafficking and abortion and how900:00:44.530 --> 00:00:47.929those issues collide, and we havea special guest here with us, Mark1000:00:47.969 --> 00:00:52.039Black well with justice ministries. He'sgoing to introduce himself and just a minute.1100:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.719But, Vicky, this was asomething we just kind of as we1200:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.759were talking about the domestic violence whenwe did that episode a couple of weeks1300:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.840ago. This is another one ofthose issues that we really felt like people1400:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.989need to be informed about how theseissues, how domestic abused, domestic violence1500:01:04.989 --> 00:01:11.390and abortion kind of collide, andthen how sex trafficking collides with the issueable1600:01:11.390 --> 00:01:15.269because we've seen it out there wherewe have had strong suspicions that there has1700:01:15.349 --> 00:01:21.540been sex trafficked women being brought andwe never really know quite what to do1800:01:22.260 --> 00:01:25.739and we have done things like callthe national hotline, but without a whole1900:01:25.739 --> 00:01:29.620lot of success. So we thoughtit was time to call in an x2000:01:29.859 --> 00:01:33.129heard and really find out what wecan do, what to look for and2100:01:33.250 --> 00:01:37.609how we should respond as sidewalk counselors. Yeah, so, guys, those2200:01:37.609 --> 00:01:40.170who are out in front of abortioncenters and you trying to reach out and2300:01:40.290 --> 00:01:44.650bring help and hope to the womengoing in, you'll see some of these2400:01:44.689 --> 00:01:48.239situations. Maybe some of the stuffthat that mark says look out for you'll2500:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.040recognize all. I've seen that inthe past and I just didn't know.2600:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.879And so this is just a helpequip you guys, in form you guys,2700:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.200and so mark, just just goahead and introduce yourself. Man.2800:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.200What's your title? What's the ministryall about? And then we'll get into2900:02:00.239 --> 00:02:04.030some of the some of the INSand out. Sure thing we'll first off,3000:02:04.150 --> 00:02:06.430just thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here and3100:02:06.510 --> 00:02:09.789it's great to have discussion with youall and I feel this is a very3200:02:09.830 --> 00:02:13.710similar fight, a matter of fact, I often say that, you know3300:02:13.909 --> 00:02:17.139us being a counter sex trafficking agency, that it's really just an extension of3400:02:17.219 --> 00:02:21.659the pro life movement. Yes,that's what we're about and you know,3500:02:21.740 --> 00:02:24.580we're often times, you know,fighting for these individuals that are at high3600:02:24.580 --> 00:02:29.780risk of death themselves with what they'retrapped in. And so I just appreciate3700:02:29.819 --> 00:02:32.889all that you do so much.I we've partnered with you personally and on3800:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.370many efforts and and just again happyto be here and thanks for having me.3900:02:38.409 --> 00:02:40.530Yeah, but yeah, so I'mmark black well, I'm the president4000:02:40.569 --> 00:02:45.879and founder of justice ministries and we'vebeen around for a little over ten years.4100:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.280For me, basically, the issueof sex trafficking came on my radar4200:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.560my last semester in college. Iwas at a conference in Atlanta, Georgia,4300:02:53.719 --> 00:02:57.000many of you know, called ThePassion Conference. Okay, yeah,4400:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.150and that's where I learned about theissue of sex trafficking, world blight and4500:03:00.229 --> 00:03:02.349what was going on and and Godjust broke my heart for the issue and4600:03:02.389 --> 00:03:07.030I felt God was saying to servethis population of people. I didn't know4700:03:07.069 --> 00:03:08.590what that would look like. Ididn't know that would mean starting an agency4800:03:08.629 --> 00:03:13.659or anything like that. But Ijust felt this call to serve this population.4900:03:13.740 --> 00:03:15.900Yeah, and after doing kind ofmy homework and research of what was5000:03:15.939 --> 00:03:21.099going on overseas, but also stateside, and I found that wow, there's,5100:03:21.180 --> 00:03:24.699you know, young women and eventeenage girls being raped and sold for5200:03:24.819 --> 00:03:29.569profit on the streets of Charlotte.You know, as a man, as5300:03:29.569 --> 00:03:30.969a Christian, even as a Charlotte, and you know, I couldn't sit5400:03:31.009 --> 00:03:36.370on that information and I felt thiscalled start my own backyard. Yeah,5500:03:36.969 --> 00:03:39.050and so, yeah, so Godjust kind of prompted us in that we5600:03:39.169 --> 00:03:43.520were the first kind of trafficking agencyin the Charlotte region and one of the5700:03:43.639 --> 00:03:46.199only few in the state at thetime. You know, ten years ago5800:03:46.280 --> 00:03:51.400the term human trafficking was starting toget some amentium people were labeling what was5900:03:51.479 --> 00:03:53.439going on in this modern day slaveryand starting to get a sense of what6000:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.189was happening, but it was stillvery, very new, you know.6100:03:57.750 --> 00:04:00.150So there was a lot of kindof pioneering effort to be done here.6200:04:01.110 --> 00:04:04.949But again, after seeing the need, God just called us to serve this6300:04:05.110 --> 00:04:10.020group. And you know, ourmodels basically based off the story of the6400:04:10.060 --> 00:04:13.180Good Samaritan. Yeah, there's nosecret salce to what we do. We're6500:04:13.219 --> 00:04:16.139just meeting people and their time ofneed and their tongue of vulnerability and as6600:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.060the you know, as the church, you know, try trying to help6700:04:19.100 --> 00:04:23.660meet those needs. whichers are verybasic. You know that. It's safe6800:04:24.220 --> 00:04:27.730shelter, it's transportation them out ofthe ditch and getting them to an end.6900:04:27.769 --> 00:04:31.889Absolutely and obviously the complexities, youknow, with the particular subject of7000:04:31.970 --> 00:04:34.089sex trafficking. By the end ofthe day, these are just people that7100:04:34.209 --> 00:04:39.040need help, but like all ofus, so we try to provide whatever7200:04:39.079 --> 00:04:46.240resources we can and essentially help themon their journey to independence and and that's7300:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.519that's really the name of the game. Yeah, so let me ask so7400:04:48.720 --> 00:04:53.829just I'm sure guys, you,you who are listening, you've heard the7500:04:53.910 --> 00:04:58.949term sex trafficking and and maybe evenlately it seems like there's been an uptick7600:04:58.990 --> 00:05:04.149in this people's attention towards sex traffickingand and there's maybe different terms or in7700:05:04.269 --> 00:05:08.420things that are associated with that,but just define our term, root with7800:05:08.579 --> 00:05:11.180sex traffick, what it was thatmean? You talked about modern day slave7900:05:11.259 --> 00:05:14.740grades. Just que people into whatexactly we're talking about. So so,8000:05:15.019 --> 00:05:16.779on a bigger scale. There's there'shuman trafficking. I mean that that's how8100:05:16.819 --> 00:05:20.610you would define this crime. Yeah, and that involves Labor trafficking, that8200:05:20.730 --> 00:05:26.730involves sex trafficking. That can involvethings like organ harvesting. Yeah, child8300:05:26.889 --> 00:05:30.250soldiers, you know, any reallyany with with the Labor side, all8400:05:30.290 --> 00:05:34.920kinds of force labor, from agray and warehousing to live in, maids8500:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.680and, you know, housekeepers andthat kind of thing. Right, and8600:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.240sometimes those intersect into sex trafficking aswell. Just because someone's being labor traffick8700:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.399they may be exploited sexually as well. Yeah, so there's it's not a8800:05:46.439 --> 00:05:48.079super clean, you know thing tosay, Oh, that's definitely this case8900:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.470or definitely that case. But wherewe target most of our effort is in9000:05:51.550 --> 00:05:55.470the topic of sex trafficking. Yeah, and and again based here in the9100:05:55.509 --> 00:06:00.189US. With that said, we'veserved we serve predominantly a adult females,9200:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.149yeah, but we have served minorsand girls, also boys, some men9300:06:03.540 --> 00:06:08.300and those that identify with the Lgbtqcommunity, just all the above. And9400:06:08.540 --> 00:06:11.819we've also taken on some labor traffickingcases as well when they've come across our9500:06:11.899 --> 00:06:16.139desk. Yeah, but our mainfocus is sexual exploitation and sex trafficking is9600:06:16.220 --> 00:06:18.970where we kind of spend most ofour time. Out The way you define9700:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.689sex trafficking in the US by law, it's where there's a basically a commercial9800:06:24.689 --> 00:06:30.009sex act done by force, fraudor Corsion, or in which the individual9900:06:30.170 --> 00:06:32.079is under eighteen years old. Yeah. So. So, with that said,10000:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.920do you hear about a sixteen yearold prostitute? Legally not possible,10100:06:36.079 --> 00:06:42.000right. Yeah, a child doesn'thave the right to consent into this lifestyle.10200:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.560Right. So if they're under eighteen, it's automatic trafficking. Yeah,10300:06:45.560 --> 00:06:47.589and if they're over eighteen, ifthey're an adult, then you you have10400:06:47.670 --> 00:06:51.910to prove force, frauder corsion happenedthat push them into this commercial sex industry,10500:06:53.189 --> 00:06:57.110which can be what we see istraditional prostitution. It can be exotic10600:06:57.149 --> 00:07:00.430dancing, it can be camming,it can be pornography, it can be10700:07:00.910 --> 00:07:03.339even in like the sugar daddy sugarbaby context. There is a range.10800:07:03.740 --> 00:07:08.019Most of what we're doing with iswhat we would think of is force prostitution.10900:07:08.180 --> 00:07:11.540Yeah, yeah, okay, andI've heard and tell me if I'm11000:07:11.540 --> 00:07:14.420wrong about this, but we're rightnow we're in Charlotte, North Carolina.11100:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.410Now people are listening from all overthe United States and people listen from all11200:07:17.490 --> 00:07:23.449over the world to this podcast.Sure, but just talking about Charlotte and11300:07:23.529 --> 00:07:27.889just the context here. What arethis is ex I've heard it's Charlotte's like11400:07:27.889 --> 00:07:30.920number for the nation for sex chaffing. Is that correct or is that in11500:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.360Korect? The numbers are interesting.What do we get our numbers and stats?11600:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.839Will we get it from data andand data is a little bit all11700:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.319over the place with this topic ofsex trafficking in the US. So I11800:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.829leaned towards more conservative. But I'llput it this way. North Carolina,11900:07:46.310 --> 00:07:48.430by the stats through the National ResourceCenter, is a top ten state.12000:07:48.509 --> 00:07:51.910Yeah, and Charlotte is the numberone location in North Carolina. Yeah,12100:07:53.230 --> 00:07:56.750so you could argue then that Charlotteis a top ten city. Yeah,12200:07:57.069 --> 00:08:00.620in the US that you can makethat, that argument. It is there's12300:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.779something about Charlotte in particular that wouldcause it to be or can you identify12400:08:03.899 --> 00:08:07.980what? What makes something a topcity? Absolutely, you know. I12500:08:07.060 --> 00:08:11.970mean obviously the the east coast andgenerals more densely populated and you have between12600:08:13.050 --> 00:08:16.009Miami and New York, Charlotte's kindof a midway point. Yeah, we're12700:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.050also a midway point between Atlanta andDC. Yeah, we have a major12800:08:20.129 --> 00:08:24.129international airport and we're not far fromI forty. We're right here at eighty12900:08:24.170 --> 00:08:26.089five or right here at I seventyseven, and you can get anywhere in13000:08:26.089 --> 00:08:30.240the country from Charlotte pretty quickly.Yeah, we host a lot of major13100:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.000events. Within the past decade we'vehosted both the RNC and the DNC.13200:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.000We have all the major sports teams, we have NASCAR, we have we13300:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.070host all kind of large events andanytime there's large populations of people being brought13400:08:41.110 --> 00:08:45.149to a community, traffickers see thatas potential business. Yeah, so it's13500:08:45.190 --> 00:08:46.629not. It's not that there's somethingwrong with Charlotte in general that like,13600:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.509Oh, Charlotte is just has thishigh risk. It's that, like any13700:08:50.509 --> 00:08:54.710large metropolitan area, we're hosting largeevents and we're easy to travel to and13800:08:54.860 --> 00:08:58.620exit from and when you have that, that's just that sets up the ingredients13900:08:58.899 --> 00:09:03.539to be a high risk location forsex trafficking. You know, Charlotte is14000:09:03.580 --> 00:09:09.220also one of the abortion capitals ora southeast particularly where we minister at latrobe.14100:09:09.379 --> 00:09:13.970Sure is that is there a linkthere between so many people coming really14200:09:15.009 --> 00:09:18.169from all over the southeast for abortionshere in Charlotte and the incidence of sex14300:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.929trafficking? Yeah, I think so. I mean I think those those two14400:09:22.929 --> 00:09:26.639issues go hand in hand. Youknow, sex is something that its main14500:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.440function is to produce children. Youknow, I feel like in our culture14600:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.080it's sad that I think we almostneed to find that from it is like14700:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.320people have sexual relations to procreate,like that is the deal. But it's14800:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.990become so perverted and twisted and broughtinto other categories and the idea of having14900:09:43.269 --> 00:09:46.350one partner for your life is justthis foreign concept, like we were so15000:09:46.429 --> 00:09:50.870far away from like the biblical directionon how to raise a family and how15100:09:50.909 --> 00:09:54.500to do this. So yeah,absolutely. You know, if someone is15200:09:54.700 --> 00:09:58.500in sex trafficking and they're being asexually exploited multiple times a day, even15300:09:58.580 --> 00:10:01.860if they're on pills or using anykind of protection, still the chance of15400:10:01.940 --> 00:10:07.409pregnancy is high and if they're seenas a product that needs to produce,15500:10:09.450 --> 00:10:13.169the trafficker doesn't want to take ninemonths off, so he's going to most15600:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.809likely have her terminate that child.There's another version of this that we've seen.15700:10:16.889 --> 00:10:20.970That's even in kind of the ifyou can have a further underbelly to15800:10:20.169 --> 00:10:24.960to sex trafficking, where where that'snot happening, sometimes the child is brought15900:10:26.000 --> 00:10:31.000to term and used as either leveragefor the victim or that child then sold16000:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.559into some type of human trafficking aswell. So it mean it's a terrible,16100:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.029terrible situation, but certainly, yeah, that the two do go hand16200:10:39.110 --> 00:10:41.830in hand. Yes, so,no, sounds abortion is helping the sex16300:10:41.950 --> 00:10:46.350trafficker to cover over, Oh yeah, cover his his crimes. Absolutely.16400:10:46.389 --> 00:10:50.059Yeah, yeah, that's that iscorrect. Yeah, I mean we're dealing16500:10:50.100 --> 00:10:56.100with a society, like you said, sex is just this recreational thing and16600:10:56.179 --> 00:10:58.940obviously we know that God created sexas an enjoyable thing. Sure, right,16700:11:00.100 --> 00:11:01.580absolutely, yeah. But then wetake that, as you said,16800:11:01.659 --> 00:11:07.129and pervert that and make that thatit's only about enjoyment, not about procreation.16900:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.090And you've got it's crazy. We'retalking about an industry. Yes,17000:11:11.370 --> 00:11:13.330I mean from our perspective it's crazy. We're talking about an industry, the17100:11:13.409 --> 00:11:18.639abortion industry, that makes, youknow, million billions of dollars every year17200:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.440off of this thing called abortion.But I mean you're dealing with an industry,17300:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.639the sex trafficking industry, multibillion dollar. Yeah, that's one of the17400:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.000places when to get at this isa multi billion dollar industry. If the17500:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.029level of money that is involved withthis. I mean even ten years ago17600:11:33.470 --> 00:11:37.029when we started, I remember oneof the the phrases people would use would17700:11:37.029 --> 00:11:41.629say, if Nike, Google,starbucks and Walmart can bind their profits set17800:11:41.710 --> 00:11:46.230global sex trafficking still bringing in moremoney. Yeah, and those companies combined.17900:11:46.309 --> 00:11:50.820And so so you're dealing with amegacrime industry. Yeah, and the18000:11:50.860 --> 00:11:52.500unfortunately, when you have big money, it greases a lot of wheels,18100:11:52.539 --> 00:11:56.460even all the way throughout government andand yeah, and the systems that should18200:11:56.460 --> 00:12:01.850be stopping that and keeping that fromhappening. Well, if you have high18300:12:01.889 --> 00:12:05.529places of power and limited morals andthere's money floating around, that is a18400:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.610bad combination. Yeah, it isa bad combination. You unleash, just18500:12:09.009 --> 00:12:13.730open the floodgates for all kinds ofevil. Absolutely. I know on social18600:12:13.809 --> 00:12:20.039media and other rounds there's a lotof this talk about child trafficking and just18700:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.120it seems like it's on an uptick. Is that? Is that the case18800:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.279that there is an uptick in secttraffing. You're just more people are talking18900:12:26.360 --> 00:12:31.429about it. I don't know,a couple of stings. The the awareness19000:12:31.710 --> 00:12:35.429has increased. Okay, child traffickinghas been going on since well before we19100:12:35.549 --> 00:12:39.309started and well beyond that. Imean, yeah, it's been going on19200:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.860for very, very long time.It is gaining traction and child trafficking specifically19300:12:43.980 --> 00:12:50.460is getting more attention. There's somerestructuring going on the federal law enforcement levels19400:12:50.539 --> 00:12:54.139that I think is is having aripple effect that there is being beneficial.19500:12:54.379 --> 00:12:58.169Okay, free up more manpower toto go after this subject. In general.19600:12:58.250 --> 00:13:01.809Law enforcement agencies are tax then andspread then. Right. Yeah,19700:13:03.210 --> 00:13:07.090there is some reprioritizing that's been goingon that I think is going alongside with19800:13:07.210 --> 00:13:11.929with some of the increase that we'reseeing. And you know, even with19900:13:11.929 --> 00:13:16.840the trump administration, of just recentlythey passed thirty five million dollars to go20000:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.240into actual victim resources. There's beena lot of money raced in the name20100:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.799of human trafficking, but it wouldshock you how little of that actually ends20200:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.029up being direct services or bed space. Yeah, for survive of it.20300:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.149So the money that just came through, I mean we didn't see any of20400:13:31.190 --> 00:13:33.990it. There was only one agencyin North Carolina and one in South Carolina20500:13:33.029 --> 00:13:35.389that received, you know, thatfunding, which is which is great.20600:13:35.389 --> 00:13:39.710I mean it's excellent, sure,and that will go fast, unfortunately.20700:13:39.750 --> 00:13:43.659Yeah, but I was still justencouraged to see that momentum that, hey,20800:13:43.700 --> 00:13:46.139even at the federal level, somesome money is being loosened up to20900:13:46.419 --> 00:13:52.019specifically target getting resources for for individualsthat have been caught up in human traffion,21000:13:52.059 --> 00:13:54.779because it should be a top priority. I mean the fact that it's21100:13:54.820 --> 00:13:56.490going on. We were talking beforethe podcast, you know. I mean21200:13:56.889 --> 00:14:01.769slavery was abolished a long time agoin our country. This is a form21300:14:01.809 --> 00:14:05.009of modern day slavery and we shouldbe coming at it really hard and really21400:14:05.049 --> 00:14:09.519swift. But for too long we'vewe've basically just been kind of dancing around21500:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.720the issue and sometimes I feel thatwe're more concerned about the risk of acting21600:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.080versus the risk of not acting.Yeah, and it really that's been something21700:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.519that's bug me for a long time. But it's a true pandemic. I21800:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.070mean we have a serious problem goingon right now. Yeah, and so21900:14:24.190 --> 00:14:28.750we know it's there, we knowit's happening and we know that it's certainly22000:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.470these women are being brought to theabortion center. We know that and in22100:14:31.549 --> 00:14:37.549fact we have seen what we havesuspected sometimes. But maybe could you speak22200:14:37.549 --> 00:14:41.460a little bit about what to lookfor, because I know you probably would22300:14:41.539 --> 00:14:46.379notice things that we might not.Yeah, I mean I can tell you22400:14:46.580 --> 00:14:48.460know, at least you guys are. You are pretty sharp. So I22500:14:48.580 --> 00:14:50.580yeah, I'd probably pick up amost of it. But and if you22600:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.090want to check it out, theNational Resource Center, also called Pilarish Project,22700:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.889on their website they do have alist of recognizing the signs. If22800:14:58.929 --> 00:15:03.129you can probably some fifty, fiftythings to look for. You will put22900:15:03.169 --> 00:15:05.129a link for that actually in thedescription of this podcast. Sure, those23000:15:05.169 --> 00:15:07.879who are listening can can go tothat website, but some of the big23100:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.240ones would be, you know,and again it's you know, most women23200:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.960that are being brought to an abortionclinic. I mean they there's a lot23300:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.080of shame, there's a lot ofemotion going on, so that could be23400:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.710confused to look like something that it'snot necessarily. Yeah, so I would23500:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.230then zoom out a little bit andsay, okay, anytime there's maybe a23600:15:28.309 --> 00:15:31.789male bringing a female in that theydon't look like they'd be in a typical23700:15:31.830 --> 00:15:35.379relationship. You know, that shouldbe somewhat of red flag. Like a23800:15:35.460 --> 00:15:41.220much older man with a much youngerexact person might be one example exactly.23900:15:41.539 --> 00:15:43.860You can kind of in your ownyou know, assessment going on that yeah,24000:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.620it looks that's got right. Andthen, certainly, as we discussed,24100:15:46.700 --> 00:15:50.970you know, if if there wasmultiple women, yeah, that one24200:15:52.049 --> 00:15:54.090guy or one individual was bringing inand we could be a woman to I24300:15:54.090 --> 00:15:58.690mean there are female traffickers. Itcould be a woman bringing three other women24400:15:58.809 --> 00:16:02.450in and that that's just bizarre.I mean it's it'd be a crazy scene.24500:16:03.409 --> 00:16:07.080The individual, the victim, oftentimesdoesn't really have control over their own24600:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.080documentation, over their own money.Sometimes they're a little fuzzy on where they're24700:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.600at and you know where they're going. And if sometimes you have opportunity to24800:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.350kind of engage in a conversation level, often times you don't, but if24900:16:18.389 --> 00:16:22.990there is that opportunity, you canpick up on that really quickly. Just25000:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.429the victim often times won't have alot of context that you'd have with a25100:16:26.909 --> 00:16:30.470regular Orson you're meeting on the street. Let me ask you, because it25200:16:30.509 --> 00:16:33.179occurred to me as you were speakingbecause we're in in the instant. I25300:16:33.299 --> 00:16:36.820was telling you earlier on that thatwe did see before we started the podcast,25400:16:36.860 --> 00:16:38.500where we did see a man bringfor victims, well, what we25500:16:38.620 --> 00:16:42.659thought were for victims. They itwas the middle of summer and they were25600:16:42.659 --> 00:16:47.970all wearing long sleeves and we foundthat odd and we wondered. We were25700:16:48.049 --> 00:16:52.730wondering where they being, where theydrugged, where they using drugs? Is25800:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.850that a form of control in insex trafficking, and so would even something25900:16:56.889 --> 00:17:00.330like that, long sleeves in themiddle of a hot North Carolina summer?26000:17:00.370 --> 00:17:03.119Yeah, that's that's good observation.Yeah, absolutely, drug use is definitely26100:17:03.160 --> 00:17:07.720common within sex trafficking. At that'snot every case. I've been actually shocked26200:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.039by how many cases that there wasn'tdrug use involved. Oftentimes, depending on26300:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.390this type of trafficker, it canbe utilized or not, and then sometimes26400:17:17.430 --> 00:17:21.269it's something they use count towards theend, if you will, to keep26500:17:21.349 --> 00:17:25.109someone compliant. But but yeah,know that the long sleeves could have been26600:17:25.150 --> 00:17:27.390used to cover that. There alsocould have been significant tattoos or branding that26700:17:27.470 --> 00:17:33.059have been easily identifiable and then thatcould be used to cover that as well.26800:17:33.220 --> 00:17:37.539But yeah, I the big thingsto look out for with potential victim26900:17:37.740 --> 00:17:41.140is kind of their demeanor, howthey're carrying themselves. Again, walking into27000:17:41.140 --> 00:17:45.809abortion clinic gets tough because they're probablyalready feeling all kind of emotion. But27100:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.410that on the street. That's whatwe would look for is is the way27200:17:48.410 --> 00:17:51.329they're carrying themselves, that they won'tmake eye contact, if they won't speak27300:17:51.329 --> 00:17:55.250on their own behalf and someone speaksfor them, things of that nature,27400:17:55.329 --> 00:17:57.720and then not having a lot ofcontext on you know, where they're from27500:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.480or what they do or how theyget here, how long they stay in27600:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.119you know, things the best ofUS could answer easily. Right, if27700:18:03.160 --> 00:18:07.400you're being controlled by another person,you may not have quick answers or you're27800:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.000giving scripted answers. Right. Sometimeswe're just watching them and we're not going27900:18:11.000 --> 00:18:12.950to have an interaction. But arethere things that we could be watching coming28000:18:12.990 --> 00:18:18.150from the trafficer? That his interaction. I'm assuming to say him. I28100:18:18.230 --> 00:18:22.069know certimes it might be a woman, but I'll say him just to make28200:18:22.069 --> 00:18:25.230it easy. So his interactions withthe women. Are there things that are28300:18:25.309 --> 00:18:29.819kind of tipoffs? Yeah, Imean just that that presence of control.28400:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.140I mean is the big one.I mean, traffickers will confuse you,28500:18:33.339 --> 00:18:36.740that they will. I mean they'rethey're they're manipulators. So I mean then28600:18:36.819 --> 00:18:38.579one sense they may try to beloving on them and, you know,28700:18:38.700 --> 00:18:42.369all caring and another minute really reallyharsh. It's all over the place,28800:18:42.450 --> 00:18:48.210but in general you're looking for overalltheme of this person seems to be controlling28900:18:48.289 --> 00:18:53.410this other person and there seems tobe a real in submissive situation or a29000:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.680fear of that that person. Yeah, so I don't ask this question to29100:18:57.720 --> 00:19:03.400kind of get into like a culturalprofiling or anything like that, but is29200:19:03.440 --> 00:19:08.440it the case that many of thewomen that are being trafficked are from out29300:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.430of the country? You know,that's so they might not exactly speak English,29400:19:11.430 --> 00:19:15.549they might have an accent. Isthat another thing that can kind of29500:19:15.630 --> 00:19:18.710be a common denominator there that wecould pick up on? Let's say we29600:19:18.750 --> 00:19:21.430see some of those signs that you'retalking about, included with the fact that29700:19:21.509 --> 00:19:23.740this person didn't even speak the language. Absolutely not. If someone didn't speak29800:19:23.740 --> 00:19:27.700English that you know, and they'reagain still it appears that they're being controlled.29900:19:27.740 --> 00:19:32.180This isn't a person that's caring forthem and translating and being kind.30000:19:32.259 --> 00:19:34.380They're being harsh. That would bea big red flag. For our experience,30100:19:34.420 --> 00:19:38.569it's actually really surprised me. Thehigh majority of our clients have actually30200:19:38.569 --> 00:19:42.289been US citizens. It is blownmy mind. When we got into this30300:19:42.329 --> 00:19:47.049I assumed it probably be fifty,you know, fifty percent US citizen,30400:19:47.170 --> 00:19:51.490fifty percent for national. The highmajority has actually been US citizens. Wow,30500:19:51.849 --> 00:19:55.880and and a lot of the traffickinghas been. There's different kinds of30600:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.640pimp. There's kind of the RomeoPimp, which is a small time operator,30700:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.599basically acting like he's in a relationship. It looks similar domestic violence but30800:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.109martialized, and there's the guerrilla pimp, which is heavily violent and and things30900:20:07.150 --> 00:20:10.670like that, and then there's kindof the CEO pimp, which may be31000:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.309the one that you know is kindof presenting a fake business and that's how31100:20:14.349 --> 00:20:17.589he goes after people and he hasthem convinced their own track for some kind31200:20:17.630 --> 00:20:22.539of career, you know. Andso there's there's a variety of more styles31300:20:22.619 --> 00:20:25.140of it, but what we seevery often is kind of what we called31400:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.740the Romeo Pimp, and that's where, at least initially, the young lady31500:20:27.740 --> 00:20:30.740felt like she was in a relationshipwith this person. Yea. And Yeah,31600:20:30.859 --> 00:20:34.460she's having to go through some somecrazy things, but she's in her31700:20:34.539 --> 00:20:37.769mind justified that it's going to theend result, it's going to be there,31800:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.210eventually going to be together. Yea, this is just part of them31900:20:41.329 --> 00:20:45.130getting the money they need to moveon with life and things like that.32000:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.369I've heard that story time and timeagain. Yeah, where it was more32100:20:48.490 --> 00:20:52.480comparable to what the young lady sawis like a relationship, until one day32200:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.720she just kind of saw that enoughis enough, or the abuse got so32300:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.880bad she had true concern for herlife that I may not survive the week.32400:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.349And then another big indicator why peoplecall the hot line is they got32500:21:03.470 --> 00:21:08.190pregnant and they they maybe will endurethis for themselves because after all the trauma32600:21:08.470 --> 00:21:11.190and abuse, they don't. Theydon't always. They get kind of paralyzed,32700:21:11.190 --> 00:21:15.029they don't know what to do.Yeah, but then once, once32800:21:15.069 --> 00:21:18.619they find out they're pregnant, therethat innate maternal instinct is enough to say32900:21:18.779 --> 00:21:22.380I can't have this for my child. I got to get out of here.33000:21:22.500 --> 00:21:26.500And so we've gotten many a callswhen it's not just hey, come33100:21:26.539 --> 00:21:29.500get me it's hey, come getme. Also, I'm pregnant and I33200:21:29.619 --> 00:21:32.930need help quick right, right.That's very common. I have so many33300:21:32.930 --> 00:21:36.690questions for you. I I knowof and I can't give the specifics on33400:21:36.769 --> 00:21:41.730this, but I do know ofdefinitely a sex trafficking whole thing going on,33500:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.410sure, but the woman is terrified, terrified for her life. She33600:21:45.730 --> 00:21:48.920in the end decided not to pursueit. At first she was going to33700:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.119pursue it, then decided not to. So I know things that are just33800:21:53.279 --> 00:22:00.240so revolting and and so awful andI am not allowed for fear of harming33900:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.230her. What do we do andhow do we report what we see,34000:22:04.470 --> 00:22:10.190especially if they're and maybe you couldaddress that also, if the victim is34100:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.509not willing to report? It's atough one. I mean that is one34200:22:12.549 --> 00:22:15.420of our biggest struggles. Again,you know, to be really clear,34300:22:15.460 --> 00:22:18.740we're a victim advocate organization. We'renot we're not an investigative agency. You34400:22:18.900 --> 00:22:22.460know, we partner with law enforcement, but we leave their job to be34500:22:22.539 --> 00:22:26.460their job. In our job isour job. We collaborate with them wherever34600:22:26.579 --> 00:22:30.009possible, but one of the biggestissues law enforcement runs into, and I34700:22:30.049 --> 00:22:34.130think when that we run into aswell is when the victim wants help but34800:22:34.289 --> 00:22:37.250isn't ready for help, right,and that's a thin line, right.34900:22:37.250 --> 00:22:41.490Yeah, you have some people thatwe could say you need help, but35000:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.170they don't think they need it andthey're very tough to assist because they think35100:22:44.250 --> 00:22:47.400it's fine or they haven't hit rockbottom for them yet, or or whatever35200:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.160it is. But the person thatlegitimately wants help, they would legitimately one35300:22:51.200 --> 00:22:56.599out. But the fear of theunknown is somehow more terrifying than the trauma35400:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.829that they're living in right now.Yeah, and and the fear that they're35500:22:59.829 --> 00:23:02.589going to be killed. Exactly.Yeah, the fear of that or the35600:23:02.710 --> 00:23:06.670fear that if I try to run, then my perpetrator wilcome after me and35700:23:06.710 --> 00:23:08.029then he really will kill me.Right now he's just beating me, but35800:23:08.069 --> 00:23:12.220if I, if I try toescape them unsuccessful, then the fear of,35900:23:14.259 --> 00:23:18.779you know, potentially being killed isa big one. And then there's36000:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.259other manipulation tactics like well, ifyou run away, I'll go after you,36100:23:21.859 --> 00:23:22.619know, your loved ones, youknow, it's like that. That's36200:23:22.660 --> 00:23:26.170pretty common. But yes, forfor us that that is a big challenge36300:23:26.210 --> 00:23:30.529and really what we need is whenthe victim is ready for help, whether36400:23:30.650 --> 00:23:33.529through a law enforcement referral or theycall us directly or another NGO like yourselves36500:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.569as connected and they said you're callingon behalf and you know you're in communications.36600:23:37.609 --> 00:23:40.650You're saying, I want to help, I'm ready to get out.36700:23:40.970 --> 00:23:44.119Well, we kind of need thatinvitation so we can provide services and help36800:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.200them, help them get out.If the person's not ready, then we36900:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.039can't force them into it. andYou you're probably running into the same thing37000:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.599and I think the main thing todo there is just have that consistent outreach37100:23:55.079 --> 00:23:59.349and just let them know help ishere when you're ready and then if there37200:23:59.390 --> 00:24:02.509are opportunities for conversation, which thererarely is. I mean it's not like37300:24:02.630 --> 00:24:04.190we can go get in a coffeeshop and talk about your exit plan.37400:24:04.230 --> 00:24:07.230All this is being done in themargin. I mean this is being done37500:24:07.269 --> 00:24:11.460in thin spaces of like hey,I had this moment to connect or I37600:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.859had this moment to send you thismessage or communicate this through a third party,37700:24:15.700 --> 00:24:19.180helping get word that like help isavailable. But then if there's a37800:24:19.420 --> 00:24:22.539lot of nerves, that can bea tough thing to navigate. So I37900:24:22.660 --> 00:24:26.250think the main thing we can dois obviously just be available, be consistent38000:24:26.450 --> 00:24:30.609and pray for them that they wouldthey would attempt to exit. Yeah,38100:24:30.730 --> 00:24:36.170on the second note, you know, I would highly encourage people, as38200:24:36.250 --> 00:24:37.839with law enforcement, when you seean active crime going on, are you38300:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.160say hey, this looks like trafficking. I definitely think this is, and38400:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.240it's happening in real time and there'sactionable things that can be done. One38500:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.000hundred percent, you know, callenforcement right then and there and say,38600:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.200Hey, I have reason to believethis is happening. The big challenge is38700:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.750there. Is it so rare thatyou you run into a live, real38800:24:53.869 --> 00:24:59.150situation where you could report it andit could be acted on in that window,38900:24:59.589 --> 00:25:02.430because police need that burden to proof. Yeah, the and then the39000:25:02.509 --> 00:25:06.109other challenge will run into, evenif all that happens, is again,39100:25:06.190 --> 00:25:07.900if the victim isn't ready for help. Yeah, they're going to be more39200:25:07.940 --> 00:25:11.259scared of their perpetrator than they arethe law enforcement and they may feed law39300:25:11.259 --> 00:25:15.019enforcement a bunch of lines and andthen basically they'd have to be well,39400:25:15.019 --> 00:25:18.539you're free to go, I guess. Yeah, everything in a way.39500:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.930It is highly complicated, right,and trying to engage well, in this39600:25:22.049 --> 00:25:25.210specific situation. It I guess theycould say it was here, say it39700:25:25.329 --> 00:25:30.490was what she told me right month, but it was so horrific and she39800:25:30.650 --> 00:25:33.170would not report it and I wondered, what's there any way I could anonymously39900:25:33.970 --> 00:25:40.359reported and how while protecting her?And I didn't know what to do.40000:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.839So I did nothing. Well,and and those situations, you know,40100:25:42.960 --> 00:25:45.759if there was a way to getif you had another engagement with her,40200:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.630like when we do outreach weet wehand out our local hotline number, because40300:25:49.670 --> 00:25:52.029what we're hoping for is, evenif they're not ready right now, then40400:25:52.109 --> 00:25:56.509on when they're ready or they filledthat, there's a safe window and then40500:25:56.549 --> 00:25:59.990they can call us and in thatsense they can then serve them and get40600:26:00.069 --> 00:26:03.069them out, because many of themin this lifestyle have been forced to do40700:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.740the legal activity or there's a there'sa fear of police or whatever it is.40800:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.579So we can be an alternative,because we're not kicking indoors or anything40900:26:11.619 --> 00:26:15.380like that. We're literally kind ofa specialized taxi service for people wanted to41000:26:15.420 --> 00:26:18.609exit this and we can do thatas a victim atick an agency. So41100:26:18.970 --> 00:26:22.130they don't they can just they canjust exit. And many victims I've worked41200:26:22.170 --> 00:26:26.529with it is shocked me when kindof you step back and zoom mount and41300:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.970you're going, wow, you didn'tleave because you sit didn't have the simple41400:26:32.650 --> 00:26:37.960resources to get away. So ifyou'd had even a few hundred dollars to41500:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.599hire transport and immediate lodging, youmaybe could have even done this yourself.41600:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.559But you didn't even have that.You didn't have you barely had clothes on41700:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.150your back. So that level oflack of resources can keep someone very trapped.41800:26:49.190 --> 00:26:52.910Yeah, and and yeah. Sofor us, getting the hot line41900:26:52.910 --> 00:26:57.230out to the right people is criticaland then having our opportunity to respond to42000:26:57.309 --> 00:27:00.619a situation we've been invited to.And then, yeah, for other live42100:27:00.700 --> 00:27:04.539action situations that are happening in apublic setting, one hundred percent get the42200:27:04.579 --> 00:27:10.859police in there and it's always appropriateto take information nonetheless and still called the42300:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.299non emergency number, whoever, andjust passing that on to law enforcement,42400:27:14.380 --> 00:27:18.170because you never, we never canassume what active investigations they have going on.42500:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.450Yeah, and and that information fromthe community maybe just enough, yeah,42600:27:22.529 --> 00:27:25.369to take things to the next level. So it's it's you know,42700:27:25.490 --> 00:27:27.250if police are saying hey, I'mgood. I mean they're going to communicate42800:27:27.329 --> 00:27:30.839that to you if they feel likehey, this really isn't helpful. But42900:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.519I mean, otherwise I'd basically tryto pass on information when I have it43000:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.240and let them decide if it's useful. Yeah, yeah, so practically in43100:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.160front of an abortion center where we'regoing to see, presumably the trafficker and43200:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.750then the victims. And if westrongly suspected and we did call the police,43300:27:45.869 --> 00:27:51.829I know in our podcast on domesticviolence that that can really endanger the43400:27:51.910 --> 00:27:56.190woman because she's going to be punished. So can you talk about that at43500:27:56.230 --> 00:28:00.259all? It's it's that effort anissue that the trafficker will then beat the43600:28:00.339 --> 00:28:04.619woman afterwards or whatever. Because,yeah, so, well, guess what43700:28:04.700 --> 00:28:07.980you're saying, some kind of likethe rules of engagement stuff. Yeah,43800:28:08.380 --> 00:28:12.329okay's and don'ts. If we seethis right, you're saying, of course,43900:28:12.490 --> 00:28:15.329call law enforcement and then, ofcourse, if you're able to get44000:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.609the hot line into their hands,get that into their hands. But as44100:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.009far as our interactions with that woman, what are some of the things that44200:28:22.089 --> 00:28:25.130we should have got it? Igot. Yeah, no, that's a44300:28:25.210 --> 00:28:29.599really delicate one and and and tosome degree most places I speak. I'd44400:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.559price. I don't, you don't. I would encourage people not to engage,44500:28:32.599 --> 00:28:37.000for y'all, you're not your averagestreet outreach individuals, volunteers. So44600:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.359I wouldn't try to define what todo or not to do. I'd really44700:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.230leave that up to individuals and towhere how the holy spirits moving them.44800:28:45.430 --> 00:28:48.430And I'm not going to say dowsor don't because, hey, there's no44900:28:48.789 --> 00:28:51.789exact playbook for some of the stuff. But I am glad to hear the45000:28:51.910 --> 00:28:56.380cock. Our cognisant of some outreachcan put victims at risk and that's why45100:28:56.500 --> 00:29:00.579when we do ours, we tryto be very clandestine about it, because45200:29:00.380 --> 00:29:03.380what you don't want to do,we like a matter of fact, good45300:29:03.420 --> 00:29:06.619example, we used to do streetoutreach. We used to like literally go45400:29:06.900 --> 00:29:10.130out to where girls were walking,you know, the track, and engage45500:29:10.130 --> 00:29:11.170them on the street and just,you know, hand them a card.45600:29:11.250 --> 00:29:14.569You know, hey if you wantto help. But but we saw that45700:29:14.849 --> 00:29:18.849there's actually some risk there of thetrafficker who's two hundred yards away and an45800:29:18.890 --> 00:29:22.250Asu v than saying what was thatabout? You know, would you tell45900:29:22.289 --> 00:29:26.039them, you know, unnecessarily botheringher and then even at Thomas we were46000:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.480like, okay, well, wecould discreetly hand it to her while driving46100:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.519by, you know. But wejust got to a point where it wasn't46200:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.160very effective, like we almost neverhad anyone leave right then and we had46300:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.349other other effective measures that that seemto be a lot more productive. I46400:29:40.390 --> 00:29:41.750won't go into what those are,but, but, but that seemed to46500:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.589have been working better. So wekind of backed off from street outreach specifically,46600:29:45.630 --> 00:29:51.309yeah, because it was the biggerrisk with less response. Yeah,46700:29:52.190 --> 00:29:55.900so same, same type thing.I would whatever that looks like, you46800:29:56.019 --> 00:29:57.220know, for you guys or forother are groups that are may be listening,46900:29:57.740 --> 00:30:02.299keep that in mind the way inwhich you engage, assume you're being47000:30:02.380 --> 00:30:06.180watched and try to do not dothings that could put more pressure on her,47100:30:06.660 --> 00:30:10.009and it could be as simple ascoming up with an excuse for your47200:30:10.049 --> 00:30:14.089engagement other than providing services so thatshe has something to report back. Oh,47300:30:14.130 --> 00:30:17.210they they were just asking me ifI wanted to do adoption or what,47400:30:17.289 --> 00:30:18.849you know, whatever it is,and just only talk about that,47500:30:19.009 --> 00:30:23.880you know. But it's it isa challenge because we have it has to47600:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.480be some level, you know,of engagement. We can't just say,47700:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.279well, I hope they google thisone day, yeah, which, fortunately47800:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.319they might. You know I mean, I know you'll have seen that.47900:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.710I mean search engine optimizations a positivething in this modern context, absolutely so48000:30:37.789 --> 00:30:40.670that people with they have that momentto do a quick look online. We48100:30:40.750 --> 00:30:44.630want to be up high where theycould, they could find us. But48200:30:44.710 --> 00:30:48.069it is a balance and and rulesof engagement. You know, in many48300:30:48.109 --> 00:30:49.740ways the good news is we're inAmerica where we're free to talk to people,48400:30:49.900 --> 00:30:52.339you know, and we don't haveto walk around fearful of it.48500:30:52.700 --> 00:30:56.180So I would really think in contextthat we just have to be careful that48600:30:56.259 --> 00:30:59.700we're not putting someone in a badposition. Right, yeah, right,48700:31:00.140 --> 00:31:06.609because even offering the resources he's goingto perceive as a threat to his control48800:31:06.650 --> 00:31:10.250over that woman because he was underso have that abortion and not talk to48900:31:10.329 --> 00:31:14.450people about housing or whatever. Oh, yes, and I'm sure you've experienced49000:31:14.450 --> 00:31:17.650it. I'm sure you've had itwhere you were doing street outreach and the49100:31:17.809 --> 00:31:21.000man bringing the lady in tried tointimidate you all. I mean, I'm49200:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.960for you. I'm sure you've haddozens of those cases. Like I'm tough49300:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.359and the reality is a right doesn'twork that well, because you're like,49400:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.400I'm I'm not here for you,Buddy. I'm praying for you, but49500:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.230I'm concerned about that baby, yeah, and her belly right now. Let's49600:31:33.230 --> 00:31:36.509say best case scenario, we somehowget that woman alone. She does,49700:31:36.630 --> 00:31:38.789somehow he's gone away or whatever,and we're able to talk with her.49800:31:38.869 --> 00:31:44.670What are the resources that you offer? Sure, so we do our best49900:31:44.910 --> 00:31:49.700to offer immediate shelter. Okay.So we have a setup where we try50000:31:49.740 --> 00:31:55.619to have a response time that isliterally within hours of Oh really, it's50100:31:55.660 --> 00:31:59.420not always possible because, again,we are recovering north and South Carolina.50200:31:59.500 --> 00:32:01.809Okay, we're a small grass rootsteam. Anyone out there listening to lists50300:32:01.849 --> 00:32:06.650to help? We need your moneyin really bad like we need the financial50400:32:06.769 --> 00:32:09.849support. So, because we're verymuch like a volunteer firefighter department that's covering50500:32:09.849 --> 00:32:15.880a two state territory, right.So I'm getting calls that are sometimes spreading50600:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.359you really thin. Yeah, andyou have existing clients that also need your50700:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.519help. So, with all thatsaid, when we get a hotline call,50800:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.400our goal would be to be ableto get to that survivor within threehour50900:32:27.559 --> 00:32:30.150window. You know, and thenand then get them set up with some51000:32:30.230 --> 00:32:32.829immediate shelter and immediate resources to reallyhave that clean break. Yeah, you51100:32:32.950 --> 00:32:37.390know, it's kind of like,you know, when you're dealing with safe51200:32:37.430 --> 00:32:39.269houses, you have to almost thinklike a virologist, you know, and51300:32:39.829 --> 00:32:44.299not cross contaminating. You have tokind of a clean break from your active51400:32:44.299 --> 00:32:49.099situation get you at a safe housingsituation that's separate and on its own to51500:32:49.180 --> 00:32:52.180assess and be that emergency time perioduntil you can find the long term housing51600:32:52.420 --> 00:32:57.019that we then transition them to,because we don't just pick people up and51700:32:57.059 --> 00:32:59.809I'll take them to the same house, because that would be crazy. Right51800:32:59.890 --> 00:33:02.009now, if it's a setup orit's fake, you just exposed a secure51900:33:02.130 --> 00:33:07.609location. Yeah, so it's multifacetedand how we do the immediate housing,52000:33:07.890 --> 00:33:10.089but that's something we try to do. It a quick response. Honestly,52100:33:10.130 --> 00:33:15.240during covid that's been a little morecomplicated because of the the health issues there,52200:33:15.319 --> 00:33:21.319and then even some of our housinghas been limited because they're like,52300:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.240oh, is this a quarantine situation? Are What is like no, no,52400:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.349it's not. You know. Soit's complex but in general, on52500:33:28.430 --> 00:33:30.710a regular all systems go, wetry to respond within hours of the call52600:33:31.029 --> 00:33:37.589and get them immediate separation from thesituation and and immediate safety and basic resources.52700:33:37.829 --> 00:33:39.309Yeah, and do you kind oftake over from there then? Also52800:33:39.349 --> 00:33:43.339in terms of okay, they've beenin the sex trade now for a while,52900:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.059they need work. Oh, yeah, job and whatever. So it53000:33:46.819 --> 00:33:50.859or some do you hand them offto another agency or how does it work?53100:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.019So, yeah, I'll define itthis way. So basically have four53200:33:54.099 --> 00:33:58.329areas. You have outreach, whichis just engaging the at risk population and53300:33:58.450 --> 00:34:00.730which I would be a part ofin this. Then you have emergency housing,53400:34:00.849 --> 00:34:05.369emergent care, and that can bethe first three days to the first53500:34:05.410 --> 00:34:07.329three months. I mean we'll havesomeone set up for sometimes three months before53600:34:07.329 --> 00:34:13.119we transition them. If there's limitedavailability. There's there's still only thousand plus53700:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.719bed space across the country for designatedfor sex traffick. Yeah, it's a53800:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.440drop in the bucket. So wealways have to get creative and outside of53900:34:19.519 --> 00:34:24.190the specified sex trafficking bed space.That's a common thing. So that's the54000:34:24.269 --> 00:34:29.510emergent care and then what I callprogram care is when you send them to54100:34:29.590 --> 00:34:34.309a woman's home or a housing program. That could be up to twelve months54200:34:34.750 --> 00:34:37.110is the idea, and there they'regetting more comprehensive care and going through some54300:34:37.150 --> 00:34:42.260counseling and healing and then you kindof graduate that and then transition to independent54400:34:42.340 --> 00:34:45.539living. And then that's what Icall transitional care. So you have outreach,54500:34:45.699 --> 00:34:50.139emergent care, program care, transitionalcare and when we do a little54600:34:50.139 --> 00:34:52.929bit of all of it. Wehave one home for program care that stays54700:34:53.449 --> 00:34:57.530fairly occupied. Yeah, right nowit's about three quarters full, but we54800:34:57.610 --> 00:35:00.250work with groups all across the countrythat they do have those kind of houses.54900:35:00.329 --> 00:35:04.849Yeah, from West Coast to Texasyou know, to Caroline's all over.55000:35:05.050 --> 00:35:07.480Yeah, and and unfortunately so manyof them do stay full. The55100:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.920ones that are run well, theystayed full. I mean the as Y'all55200:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.800know, there's a lot of need. So there is room to expand in55300:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.840that topic especially. So where wehave focused a lot of our energy is55400:35:17.960 --> 00:35:21.510on the emergent side. We foundyou got to get them out first.55500:35:21.550 --> 00:35:23.949If nothing else, helping them getaway and get safe and put them on55600:35:24.030 --> 00:35:28.230our direction is better than nothing.So we put a lot of energy there.55700:35:28.829 --> 00:35:30.630We use our safe houls and thenwe work with others across the country55800:35:30.670 --> 00:35:34.469for long term care. And thenwe also put a great deal of energy55900:35:34.550 --> 00:35:38.219on the transitional because what so oftenwould happen is someone completes a program,56000:35:38.460 --> 00:35:42.980they've been out for a year,it's been going great, but they've also56100:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.860been living in this kind of notreal life situation because they're having all this56200:35:45.940 --> 00:35:50.289support. Yeah, and no rentand don't have a grocery bill or anything56300:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.329like that. Yeah, and thenall of a sudden you're supposed to be56400:35:52.409 --> 00:35:54.849better now and just go make it, and so many can fall right back56500:35:54.849 --> 00:35:59.010into this or something similar, andwe don't want that to happen. So56600:35:59.449 --> 00:36:02.610we put a lot of our efforton transitional care, and that's helping with56700:36:02.929 --> 00:36:07.559rent assistance. Or your car brokedown and we're going to help you get56800:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.800it back on the road because yougot to keep the car seat and keep56900:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.559your job and get your kids thechild care and you know all those things.57000:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.280We do do what we can toassist with work placement or at least57100:36:15.280 --> 00:36:20.909completing education through a ged or communitycollege, and then we also assist with57200:36:21.070 --> 00:36:23.469child care expenses as well, wherewe can what we have budgeted. I57300:36:23.510 --> 00:36:27.710mean, again, we're small budgetbut we try to make those things a57400:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.590priority because the the individual who's ayear and a half out and just trying57500:36:30.590 --> 00:36:34.460to get on their feet is justas important and we don't want them to57600:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.699fall right back into it and besomeone who's going to call again because we57700:36:37.820 --> 00:36:40.380didn't see it through. It's sowe do our best to do that.57800:36:40.659 --> 00:36:46.019But that's another area where we caninvite the local church into it more.57900:36:46.019 --> 00:36:50.130I mean we just see ourselves asan arm of the church and a lot58000:36:50.170 --> 00:36:54.130of our team are pastor's wives andthings like that. But but at that58100:36:54.329 --> 00:37:00.599level of volunteerism is is a uniqueopportunity for just the everyday volunteer who says58200:37:00.639 --> 00:37:02.519I want to help somehow. WillGreat. Maybe you could be kind of58300:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.559a mentor for the other individual whowho just has some like life navigating questions58400:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.280not so much. Helped me workout my trauma questions, which you don't58500:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.519you don't need to need as muchtraining for that. So that that's that's58600:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.750where we put our energies, onthe emergent and on the transitional. But58700:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.949even I mean right now the programhouse we have, I mean it's costing58800:37:20.989 --> 00:37:23.309us about eight thousand dollars a monthto run that. Wow. So if58900:37:23.909 --> 00:37:28.230anyone wants to help us and getstarted. We're we actually had a donor59000:37:28.269 --> 00:37:30.900that was supporting that. They won'tbe able to continue with that. So59100:37:30.019 --> 00:37:34.980we're now fundraising for that, specificallyin trying to get a recurring eight thousand59200:37:34.980 --> 00:37:37.460a month to keep the safe housefully funded and its own thing and and59300:37:38.219 --> 00:37:43.219keep that running smooth. Are Thosewomen that are just in the Charlotte area?59400:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.170Are you drawing women from all over, all over country, fall over59500:37:45.250 --> 00:37:50.130that safe housing corre? Yeah,all over the yeah, wow. Yeah,59600:37:50.170 --> 00:37:52.969it's interesting in that sense. Andand so many of the clients we59700:37:52.050 --> 00:37:55.449do serve in the Charlotte area inend up going out of state. We59800:37:55.530 --> 00:37:58.800had many, many that want Ijust they want to get away, which59900:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.599makes sense. And Yeah, it'snot a bad plan. And once,60000:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.800once that does happen. To answeryour earlier question, there is kind of60100:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.559a passing of the baton. Atthat point. We've done our peace and60200:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.239once we place them with a groupin Arizona for now our jobs done,60300:38:10.280 --> 00:38:14.429unless they need to call us back. Right. Yeah, how how often60400:38:14.510 --> 00:38:19.190do they just return to the samelifestyle or once? The success rate,60500:38:19.230 --> 00:38:22.110I guess, of the yeah,of once you get them out of the60600:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.429situation, do most of them makeit. I don't have the active numbers.60700:38:25.150 --> 00:38:29.900In the earlier years I was ableto track it a little more and60800:38:30.139 --> 00:38:35.260I felt like it was thirty fiveforty percent would fall back into Instana,60900:38:35.300 --> 00:38:38.059collect into it, okay, orfall back into some kind of exploitive context.61000:38:38.380 --> 00:38:43.809But one positive is we'd have manyof them call us again. Yeah,61100:38:43.889 --> 00:38:46.449and then there was an opportunity toto serve that individual second time in.61200:38:46.889 --> 00:38:50.210And you know, we're the doorsare open if you want help,61300:38:50.409 --> 00:38:53.690and it's not. Obviously you adaptit each time because you know we don't61400:38:53.690 --> 00:38:57.360want to enable or anything. Butbut yeah, certainly you made a mistake,61500:38:57.519 --> 00:38:59.559don't we all? That's that's whatit's supposed to look like. We61600:38:59.599 --> 00:39:01.679were supposed to be there for him. So earlier on it was. That's61700:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.639the numbers I were seeing. Rightnow, I honestly don't have clear numbers61800:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.789because so many of the victims inrecent years we've served, we have helped61900:39:10.829 --> 00:39:15.389them to the next phase and thenour job was done. And if they62000:39:15.429 --> 00:39:17.389change phone numbers six months later,I have no way of engaging them,62100:39:17.710 --> 00:39:22.030and so I really don't know.You know, and then that's okay.62200:39:22.110 --> 00:39:24.699You know, it's not I meanwe're the stance of call us if you62300:39:24.739 --> 00:39:28.860need us kind of thing. Butjust because I haven't heard from somebody doesn't62400:39:28.860 --> 00:39:31.139mean I assume they fallen back intoit. So I don't know that it's62500:39:31.179 --> 00:39:35.300I'm really hoping it's not that highas it seemed in the earlier years.62600:39:37.059 --> 00:39:40.130So and the other benefit we're dealingwith is there more houses than there used62700:39:40.130 --> 00:39:45.969to be a back when I started, I think there was only six hundred62800:39:45.010 --> 00:39:50.489beds nationwide for trafficking. No,no, I'd take that back. In62900:39:50.570 --> 00:39:53.760two thousand and ten there was onlyone hundred beds nationwide designated for sex trafficking63000:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.239survivors. And around two thousand andfourteen, which is when I was reflecting63100:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.880on the is at forty percent.You know, I it was I think63200:40:00.920 --> 00:40:05.719there was around six hundred and nowprobably closer to a thousand. Are More,63300:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.389you know, I you lose trackbecause Agen she's come up and go63400:40:07.510 --> 00:40:12.349on to every day. But we'rein a much better position, you know,63500:40:12.429 --> 00:40:15.550then we were ten years ago atis as a country when it comes63600:40:15.590 --> 00:40:20.190to resources. Yeah, what arewe looking at as far as statistically,63700:40:20.389 --> 00:40:22.940nationally, how many of these?I mean, I know it's hard to63800:40:23.059 --> 00:40:27.260gaze. Sure, sure, sortof these shot in the dark estimates,63900:40:27.340 --> 00:40:30.619but what are the estimates of howmany women are trafficked every year? Yeah,64000:40:30.659 --> 00:40:35.769and and all of that. Yeah, it's I mean hundreds of thousands.64100:40:35.849 --> 00:40:38.650I mean I can say that.I wouldn't try to speculate on numbers.64200:40:39.050 --> 00:40:45.090And internationally it's we're talking thirty toforty million, right, you know,64300:40:45.289 --> 00:40:49.610type thing people called in human trafficking. In terms of state side,64400:40:49.650 --> 00:40:52.039even back in two thousand and ten, when I was starting, the State64500:40:52.159 --> 00:41:00.760Department said there was risk of onehundred to three hundred thousand children being trafficked64600:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.469in the US every year. Wow, so that was ten years ago and64700:41:04.550 --> 00:41:07.429they were had a hundred to threehundred thousand estimate annually. Yeah, so64800:41:07.510 --> 00:41:12.190I was like wow, that's crazyand that's just kids. So we can64900:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.989assume it's actually probably higher than that. And we can assume as it relates65000:41:14.989 --> 00:41:19.980to adults and and every demographic,you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of people.65100:41:20.300 --> 00:41:22.340The other thing we have going onto your point earlier, the most65200:41:22.380 --> 00:41:25.619of our clients are US citizens.We do have some that are foreign national65300:41:25.980 --> 00:41:30.780and I've done some work down tothe border doing trafficking assessments. I briefly65400:41:30.940 --> 00:41:35.489was was contracting with Samaritans first lastsummer just to assist with some some trafficking65500:41:35.489 --> 00:41:39.769assessments down there. And and man, we we we have a huge risk65600:41:40.250 --> 00:41:44.769of people that are even coming throughand have their court date and things like65700:41:44.849 --> 00:41:46.639that, that are that are havebeen tagged, that there's still such a65800:41:47.639 --> 00:41:52.639potential risk of them being exploded justdue to basic vulnerabilities of yeah, I65900:41:52.679 --> 00:41:54.920know the language. I can't workright now. I'm kind of dependent on66000:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.599my sponsor. Even those that assistsare seeking asylum and were granted temporary asylum,66100:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.909like, even those are at risk, much less those that have gotten66200:42:02.949 --> 00:42:06.989in and are not documented at all. I mean, so certainly they're not66300:42:07.070 --> 00:42:09.630calling the police or anything if someonefinds them and decides to exploit them.66400:42:10.070 --> 00:42:15.579So you have, you have alot of potential risk of foreign nationals being66500:42:15.699 --> 00:42:20.940trafficked through the the cartel's just justdoing it to an organized crime sense,66600:42:21.219 --> 00:42:23.340or even those that have made theirway here, you know, whether they're,66700:42:23.659 --> 00:42:27.820you know, having asylum or not, they're still a potentially at rest66800:42:27.860 --> 00:42:30.610for being manipulated. Yeah, andand that's that. That is just a66900:42:30.889 --> 00:42:37.050administrative item that would be so toughto try to analyze and get a handle67000:42:37.130 --> 00:42:39.530on, like how big is thatpossibly? So I think a lot of67100:42:39.610 --> 00:42:44.400that's even further underground. But itagain, I mean, I think again.67200:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.519My main message is it's it's waybigger than people think, and I67300:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.920think sometimes it surprises me occasionally onsocial media or whatnot. Is like when67400:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.840you hear about a case and peopleare like, well, I can't believe67500:42:54.880 --> 00:42:58.710this, and I'm like yeah,that's terrible, but guys, it's way67600:42:58.789 --> 00:43:00.389bigger than that, you know,and just like having an every day.67700:43:00.469 --> 00:43:06.070Now one situation here's going missing dailyand you're just dealing with massive numbers of67800:43:06.190 --> 00:43:09.309people that otherwise you wouldn't really beaware of it. Yeah, I know67900:43:09.510 --> 00:43:14.619some folks, at least that Isee on social media is almost like this68000:43:14.739 --> 00:43:17.139is a conspiracy theory. Yeah,it's really not happening. You people are68100:43:17.179 --> 00:43:22.179saying it's happening, but the realnumbers are there, you can really find68200:43:22.219 --> 00:43:25.739out this is. This is notjust some conspiracy that it's happening. It's68300:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.050conspiracy for sure, but it's notjust a conspiracy theory. Yeah, it's68400:43:30.090 --> 00:43:34.210happening. You know, people arebeing exploited, children are being exploited and,68500:43:34.769 --> 00:43:38.409from what you're saying, abortion,as far as the way these issues68600:43:38.530 --> 00:43:44.079tied together, is used as acover up. Yeah, a manipulation device68700:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.440and other things that we really needto be on the lookout for. Those68800:43:47.480 --> 00:43:51.719your minister in front of an abortioncenter. Absolutely. Yeah, and I68900:43:51.800 --> 00:43:53.960think for the listeners I would throwsomething out that may help provide some context.69000:43:54.079 --> 00:44:00.070I think very often it's easy tosay we have to have a mindset69100:44:00.150 --> 00:44:02.349shift, you know, and well, what is what a sex trafficking look69200:44:02.389 --> 00:44:06.469like? Because it's it's easy toeven drive down a sugar creek or wherever69300:44:06.510 --> 00:44:09.300and say, all that's just somemy prostitute. You know, maybe,69400:44:10.139 --> 00:44:14.420and it might be. However,there's a lot of things that could look69500:44:14.420 --> 00:44:16.739like prostitution or look like you're workingfor yourself, where you're actually not.69600:44:17.059 --> 00:44:20.820Yeah, a lot of the individualswe've served, a lot of the young69700:44:20.860 --> 00:44:22.940ladies we've assisted, if you justmet him on the street or at an69800:44:23.019 --> 00:44:27.090eleven or whatever you may be,wouldn't a thought much of it. Yeah,69900:44:27.170 --> 00:44:29.530and even if you to your point, if you'd ask them directly,70000:44:29.570 --> 00:44:30.449that may say no, I'm fine, get out of my face and cut70100:44:30.489 --> 00:44:34.809you out a little bitute. Soit's we have this image of like some70200:44:34.969 --> 00:44:37.050twelve year old Asian, you know, girl in a cage somewhere, and70300:44:37.090 --> 00:44:40.360that's human trafficking and it and itis right and that that is that is70400:44:40.360 --> 00:44:45.559very real and very massive concern andthat's that's part of it. But it70500:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.079also can kind of be right underyour nose. Yeah, and we could70600:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.679even see it and write it offas and why want they get their act70700:44:51.719 --> 00:44:53.670together, right? We don't knowthat there actually is a pimp that is70800:44:53.750 --> 00:44:58.789controlling them and unfortunately she actually seeshim as Kinind of a boyfriend. So70900:44:58.989 --> 00:45:02.510it's really messy. Yeah, butnonetheless he's having her sleep with multiple people71000:45:02.550 --> 00:45:07.300to night and he's keeping the moneyright like. So that is sex trafficking71100:45:07.579 --> 00:45:12.019and it's so I think sometimes thereason we are shocked by the numbers is71200:45:12.659 --> 00:45:15.019we aren't including that. There's alot of those cases that may not look71300:45:15.019 --> 00:45:19.019like what in our mind it wouldlook like, but it actually is playing71400:45:19.059 --> 00:45:22.769out. Are there may be somequestions that we could ask if we do71500:45:22.010 --> 00:45:27.449happen to get them alone, thatwould reveal to us what's going on.71600:45:28.130 --> 00:45:35.960Maybe if they're hesitant at first,to reveal it really obviously for me what71700:45:36.360 --> 00:45:37.559is what has been beneficial, because, I mean, here's the thing.71800:45:37.599 --> 00:45:42.480In our modern twenty twenty context,a stranger walking up and wanting to help,71900:45:42.639 --> 00:45:44.440it's going to freak a lot ofpeople out. And, yeah,72000:45:44.519 --> 00:45:46.320you know they're going to say,what is your angle? Yeah, and72100:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.710and and fair enough. I meanI've had so many of our clients tell72200:45:50.710 --> 00:45:52.829me and one time or another,wow, you're the first man I've dealt72300:45:52.869 --> 00:45:57.949with in years that didn't want anythingfrom me right now. And like even72400:45:58.030 --> 00:46:00.829to the point where a new clientsometimes will say, say we get them72500:46:00.869 --> 00:46:04.269set up with some stuff and bringthem groceries, and whenever they'll say,72600:46:04.340 --> 00:46:06.380I'll find a way to pay youback, and I go, let me72700:46:06.579 --> 00:46:09.539clarify, like, there's no paybackhere right. Yeah, you think us72800:46:09.780 --> 00:46:14.219by getting getting better and get thehelp that we're trying to offer. And72900:46:14.579 --> 00:46:17.849but like even the idea that welegitimately want to help and there's no strings73000:46:17.889 --> 00:46:22.570attached. On the flip side,I've often thought, how bad does your73100:46:22.610 --> 00:46:28.929situation have to be when you're willingto get into a van with strangers three73200:46:29.010 --> 00:46:30.409am off the side of the road. Yeah, you got to say,73300:46:30.449 --> 00:46:34.599anything's better than what I'm doing withyou know. I mean it's a gutsy73400:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.400move on their part. But so, yeah, to your point, I73500:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.199think we have to go on withthe understanding that they're not going to assume73600:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.480there's no strings attached. They're alsogoing to assume you can't handle what I'm73700:46:45.480 --> 00:46:47.590going through. And sometimes there's evena testing period of like I'm going to73800:46:47.670 --> 00:46:51.349cut you out, I'm going tobe difficult because I'm going to see if73900:46:51.389 --> 00:46:53.789you're for real, if you reallyjust love me for me, or if74000:46:53.829 --> 00:46:57.789you know you're trying to meet aquota or you know, whatever it is.74100:46:58.190 --> 00:47:00.030And and and that's that's kind ofthe thing. It just just saying,74200:47:00.030 --> 00:47:02.699Hey, we're just here to help, no strings attached. Test us74300:47:02.780 --> 00:47:06.139on that. Yeah, I meanit's like if try give me, give74400:47:06.139 --> 00:47:07.500it a shot, you don't wantit. And I've even I've even had74500:47:07.539 --> 00:47:10.739to clarify that with those that wehave helped in an emergency context remove and74600:47:10.780 --> 00:47:14.179get them placed and get them setup. I say, Hey, I74700:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.769would be really clear, like,especially if they're over eighteen, I say74800:47:15.809 --> 00:47:19.210you're not a prisoner here. Ifit's some point you just want to go74900:47:19.489 --> 00:47:22.929like you you can. The onlything I'll ask is you can't tell anybody75000:47:22.929 --> 00:47:27.170where this location is and you can'tin bite people over here. But you75100:47:27.289 --> 00:47:29.369are not trapped. Now, ifyou feel like you're about to go,75200:47:29.889 --> 00:47:32.400please call us first and let ushelp you on that journey. But you75300:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.199are not stuck. Everything we're offeringis free, and I know that sounds75400:47:37.280 --> 00:47:38.920crazy because nothing's free, right,but but it is, you know,75500:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.079and we just truly want to helpyou. So I really almost helping them75600:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.590see that there's that they're not stuck, that, yeah, they have some75700:47:46.750 --> 00:47:50.590power here, and I and that. That's the crazy shift. Can you75800:47:50.630 --> 00:47:52.429imagine going from a situation for,say, the past three years, you75900:47:52.469 --> 00:47:57.349couldn't even decide what you ate orwhen you ate right or when you slept76000:47:57.389 --> 00:48:04.099right, and then now these randomchurch people in our saying hey, what76100:48:04.179 --> 00:48:07.059do you what even taste for?What can we pick you up? You76200:48:07.099 --> 00:48:08.219know what says jeans, you areyou know. It was like, what76300:48:08.380 --> 00:48:12.219are you talking about? It couldbe a very far and like what?76400:48:12.460 --> 00:48:14.289Who? WHOA? WHOA, Whoa, you know, what are you gonna76500:48:14.289 --> 00:48:15.289make me? Do you know what? He's signing me up for. Nothing.76600:48:15.570 --> 00:48:20.690We're just here to help and andagain. Wow, what a great76700:48:20.730 --> 00:48:22.929context when they say, well,why are you doing this? Right,76800:48:22.969 --> 00:48:24.489well, that gives you the opportunity. I was just going to ask our76900:48:24.530 --> 00:48:27.639do you do you share the gods? Yes, and a party. You77000:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.880get, you get. Didn't say. I'm so glad you asked. Right77100:48:29.960 --> 00:48:31.719exactly. There's this Guy Jesus.He's the son of God, the Savior77200:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.719of the world, and I lovesyou and he's the one that said coming77300:48:35.800 --> 00:48:39.079get you. So if you ifyou don't like what we're offer and take77400:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.829it up with him. It's likebut, but Jesus loves you and we77500:48:42.949 --> 00:48:45.110love you, and this is away we can show our love towards Jesus77600:48:45.150 --> 00:48:46.510by caring for you. Yeah,and are you seeing people coming to the77700:48:46.590 --> 00:48:50.869Lord too? We do. Andand you know what else is also fascinated77800:48:50.909 --> 00:48:55.260me. How many have actually theydo. It may be kind of hidden77900:48:55.260 --> 00:48:59.699under the debris, but like somebodythem even have some relationship with Christ.78000:48:59.699 --> 00:49:01.579That's share did is they are.Yeah, and then there's that opportunity to78100:49:01.860 --> 00:49:06.300really just bring them, help themcome back to intimacy with the Lord.78200:49:06.300 --> 00:49:08.420Yeah, it's it's not. Sometimesit's a WHO's Jesus, but but a78300:49:08.500 --> 00:49:12.289lot of times it's a yeah,now I know he's out there and it's78400:49:12.289 --> 00:49:15.969just then our opportunity as brothers andsisters to then kind of just just lead78500:49:15.010 --> 00:49:17.889them back to him and and thenthen then it really makes sense. And78600:49:19.090 --> 00:49:22.130then I think the other important thingfor groups like us to do is to78700:49:22.250 --> 00:49:24.599see everything we're providing. Again,it's not me. The different bes between78800:49:24.599 --> 00:49:29.119the Good Samaritan and US is getsmad and paid for it off his dial78900:49:29.519 --> 00:49:31.239is in my money that this iscoming from the church and from donors,79000:49:31.440 --> 00:49:35.360and this is coming from this isultimately all the Lords. I mean we79100:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.909all know it's all the Lords andwe're just trying to take resources and put79200:49:38.949 --> 00:49:43.750it into those that have need.But now that that is the funniest thing.79300:49:43.789 --> 00:49:45.469In fact, when I've when I'vehad secular groups try to have us79400:49:45.510 --> 00:49:49.110in a gatcha moment. So you'rejust trying to prosplitize. You try to79500:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.670do this, I'm going actually,we're just registered as a charity, but79600:49:52.789 --> 00:49:54.900I say the reality is, wouldthat be so bad? But but secondly,79700:49:55.059 --> 00:50:00.340even still almost, I mean ninetynine percent of the time it's the79800:50:00.420 --> 00:50:04.820survivors that bring up anything about spiritualityor why we're here, even before we79900:50:05.179 --> 00:50:07.889need to, because it does cometo mind. Why are you here?80000:50:07.010 --> 00:50:10.969What is prompting this action? Well, Jesus Christ, that that's why we're80100:50:10.969 --> 00:50:15.289here. Yeah, he mad.Well, mark, we're going to wrap80200:50:15.369 --> 00:50:16.610this thing up and just a minute, man, but I really appreciate you80300:50:16.690 --> 00:50:22.159coming on and the thing talking aboutall this. But before we wrap this80400:50:22.239 --> 00:50:25.119up, is there a story orsomething you can share just in a situation80500:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.039you've been involved in or justice ministrieshas been involved in that would encourage folks?80600:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.079Sure, yeah, man, there'sthere's so many. So yeah,80700:50:34.119 --> 00:50:38.469I have one in mind and she'sgot she's got some some children and is80800:50:38.550 --> 00:50:44.469doing well now, but she justrecently reached out and she's been out a80900:50:44.630 --> 00:50:49.190long time. She's doing fine,but you know, she was just saying,81000:50:49.230 --> 00:50:52.579Hey, is there, is thereanything I can do to help what's81100:50:52.579 --> 00:50:55.659going on and help support the ministry, and she even offered to like do81200:50:55.780 --> 00:50:59.900some paintings and then things like thatto see if like there's something you could81300:50:59.900 --> 00:51:00.780auction off or whatever, which washey, if you want to do that,81400:51:00.860 --> 00:51:05.769that's amazing. It's super kind.But just seeing that healing that does81500:51:05.889 --> 00:51:10.809take place, that in the supportthat is able to be provided that's able81600:51:10.889 --> 00:51:15.250to help her not be in aplace of necessarily survival mode years out.81700:51:15.489 --> 00:51:20.000Yeah, but like because of thatcontinued transitional care, she's at a place81800:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.079where where her mindsets going to howcan I help that the next generation?81900:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.559How can I be there for theother girls? And she's going I'm kind82000:51:27.559 --> 00:51:29.679of stay at home mom. Idon't have a lot I can do right82100:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.239now. But like, can Idraw them? Can I draw pictures?82200:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.789Got To do a craft, gotto do anything that would be be useful82300:51:35.190 --> 00:51:38.989and and I that's really an encouragementto me to see that it's not this82400:51:39.190 --> 00:51:44.309idea of well, I'm a victimand that's what I am. A victim82500:51:44.389 --> 00:51:46.940status is temporary. Yeah, likeand if for anyone listening it's been through82600:51:46.980 --> 00:51:51.860that kind of stuff, there's nothinginnately wrong about being victimized. It had82700:51:51.980 --> 00:51:53.739nothing to do with you. Imean, even if you made some poor82800:51:53.780 --> 00:51:57.420decisions that led to that, stillnot your fault. We all make poor82900:51:57.460 --> 00:52:00.730decisions every single day, like itjust it happened to you and there's nothing83000:52:00.730 --> 00:52:04.690wrong with the individuals caught up inthis. There's something wrong with what happened83100:52:04.690 --> 00:52:07.730to them. Yeah, even stillif you have been victimized, if you83200:52:07.769 --> 00:52:10.769are going through that situation, itis okay to receive help. We all83300:52:10.849 --> 00:52:15.880need it. Everyone needs help fromtime to time, and but that does83400:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.199not define you. That's not whereyour identity is. And moving forward,83500:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.760if there's any responsibility, it isto say, okay, now that I've83600:52:24.280 --> 00:52:28.639gotten the help I need, I'mhealthy again. Are Healthy for the first83700:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.909time. Okay, great, it'sbeen certainly if you're a believer. Okay,83800:52:31.070 --> 00:52:35.150now go out and serve your neighbor. Yeah, you know if I83900:52:35.230 --> 00:52:37.590have any action outem for them,kind of like I told the other girls,84000:52:37.710 --> 00:52:39.269no need to pay back, buthey, if you want to help,84100:52:39.550 --> 00:52:43.150then help help the next person.And that's really the whole point,84200:52:43.190 --> 00:52:45.380because at the end of the day, it's not about being a sex trafficking84300:52:45.420 --> 00:52:47.340victim or this or this or this. It's all just image bearers of God.84400:52:47.539 --> 00:52:52.059We're just people, were brothers andsisters that are all messed up,84500:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.739but we've got a, you know, perfect father and we've got the perfect84600:52:54.739 --> 00:52:59.210savior in Jesus, and we can, we can now move forward with life84700:52:59.530 --> 00:53:02.489with a light burden because he carriesus through it. And and then so84800:53:02.610 --> 00:53:06.090that that's that's my message. Theenemy and then the world wants us to84900:53:06.130 --> 00:53:07.889stay in some kind of label oflike you're this, you're this, that,85000:53:07.929 --> 00:53:13.079you you are your past. ItAin't aboudy yesterday. It's about where85100:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.559you're at today, from where theLord's leading you tomorrow. Yeah, a85200:53:15.679 --> 00:53:19.320man. So if people wanted toget in touch with you, what's the85300:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.360website and maybe an email address?Reach out to you. Sure. Yeah,85400:53:23.400 --> 00:53:27.909the the websites. If you justgoogle us, justice ministries, where85500:53:27.949 --> 00:53:31.750you go to wwwe justice ministries dotOrg. Okay, we're also on facebook85600:53:31.869 --> 00:53:36.750and instagram and we also have asmartphone APP. So if they in your85700:53:36.789 --> 00:53:40.070APP store, if you just searchjustice ministries, our logo is a bison,85800:53:40.269 --> 00:53:44.059American Buffalo. Yeah, a lotof people ask us what is that85900:53:44.099 --> 00:53:45.780about and when we pick that justbecause it was a cool looking mascot.86000:53:45.940 --> 00:53:50.980But but with with Bison, whenpredators would approach a herd of Bison,86100:53:51.340 --> 00:53:54.659they would kind of form a naturalkind of a protective perimeter around the smaller86200:53:54.730 --> 00:53:58.889bi center with one was sick andthings like that, to kind of protect86300:53:58.929 --> 00:54:01.530them from from the the wolves orwhatever going after them. And and that's86400:54:01.530 --> 00:54:05.369kind of our posture where we're heremore than defensive posture, not so much86500:54:05.369 --> 00:54:08.329offensive. The other thing that's kindof interesting is bison in America used to86600:54:08.449 --> 00:54:13.239flourish and run all over the planesand whatnot, and and they almost went86700:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.599extinct, you know, yeah,because they were kind of, if you86800:54:15.679 --> 00:54:17.559will, oppressed so heavily. Butno one looks at a bison and says86900:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.199wow, what a weak animal,right. So that's again kind of kind87000:54:21.239 --> 00:54:23.590of my message to our our survivors. It's like no one looks at Bison87100:54:23.630 --> 00:54:27.590and says, Oh wow, Imean that's a strong, strong animal.87200:54:28.030 --> 00:54:30.949And and what they went through ahundred years ago and nothing to do with87300:54:30.989 --> 00:54:32.429them. It was just a greedof other other people. Yeah, but87400:54:32.469 --> 00:54:36.550yeah. So, anyways, whenyou look on the that look us up,87500:54:36.550 --> 00:54:38.780you'll see that little logo. Okay, American, cool. So justice87600:54:38.820 --> 00:54:43.780ministries dot org and they can reachout to you through that. Your email87700:54:43.780 --> 00:54:46.099dress is likely, they're sure,and phone number reach out to. And87800:54:46.219 --> 00:54:49.539then, if you guys who arelistening, if you want to donate and87900:54:49.539 --> 00:54:53.570support their ministry, like any nonprofit, they need your support. Maybe your88000:54:53.650 --> 00:54:59.849church has really got a burden forthe issue of sex trafficking certainly. I'm88100:54:59.889 --> 00:55:02.250sure you guys would love churches supportinghim. Oh, I probably already have,88200:55:02.369 --> 00:55:06.210and that's sometimes our primary support.Yeah, so, yeah, we88300:55:06.289 --> 00:55:09.440we're happy to speak at churches orsmall groups and happy to set up a88400:55:09.480 --> 00:55:13.239zoom meeting or call with with anybodywants to learn more. I mean,88500:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.239I get it, I welcome Iwelcome the questions and we want to be88600:55:15.280 --> 00:55:20.679as straightforward as we can and tellyou what we can. That doesn't jeopardize88700:55:20.679 --> 00:55:22.510any security. But yeah, it'sa weird thing to market. Yeah,88800:55:23.269 --> 00:55:28.349this counter sex trafficking is a toughthing to advertise. But but yeah,88900:55:28.349 --> 00:55:30.510we certainly appreciate you guys having usand helping us. Hey, thank you89000:55:30.590 --> 00:55:34.670for what you're doing in the collaboration. As we it's just all an effort.89100:55:34.750 --> 00:55:37.659Just just take a stance for life. Yeah, and serve the oppressed89200:55:37.780 --> 00:55:40.659and and again, I love whatyou are doing and we're happy to partner89300:55:40.699 --> 00:55:44.739with you where we can. Yeah, I appreciate that. Brother, appreciate89400:55:44.780 --> 00:55:47.019your time. I bless you andyou guys who are listening. We appreciate89500:55:47.099 --> 00:55:51.769you listening. We just ask youto share this podcast, share it with89600:55:51.889 --> 00:55:54.170friends and family, put it outon social media. Reach out to me,89700:55:54.250 --> 00:55:59.889D parks at cities for lifecom andher V cassie organ cities for Lifecom,89800:56:00.329 --> 00:56:04.400if you have any any questions,and maybe other subjects you want us89900:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.920to cover. We'd certainly live acover their subjects. But until next time,90000:56:07.960 --> 00:56:20.670God bless give me our love forlove, give me our loft for90100:56:20.909 --> 00:56:32.019gratitude. I know it will costme my life. Nothing's too precious.90200:56:32.340 --> 00:56:34.699And some met you