July 16, 2020

Abortion and Racism in The US - Interview with Melissa Pellew

Abortion and Racism in The US - Interview with Melissa Pellew

The issue of racism is at the forefront of many conversations we are currently having in America. Sadly, racism is also tied to many other sin issues we face as a nation including abortion. Join Vicky and Daniel in an interview with Melissa Pellew...


The issue of racism is at the forefront of many conversations we are currently having in America. Sadly, racism is also tied to many other sin issues we face as a nation including abortion. Join Vicky and Daniel in an interview with Melissa Pellew from Ratio Christi as they talk through the issues of racism and abortion and how those issues intersect. They also touch on some of the dos and don'ts of bringing up race when talking to abortion-minded women.

https://ratiochristi.org/people/melissa-pellew/

charlotte.cities4life.org

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.719 If you want to talk about a picture of true love, of sacrificial love, 2 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:12.230 of love for humanity. If there's any sort of picture of virtual unity 3 00:00:12.310 --> 00:00:16.550 and love, it's on that side law, as people are reaching across racial 4 00:00:16.710 --> 00:00:23.059 lines to literally save lives and to offer help resources, and it's in a 5 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:30.620 total change in direction and one's like. I Am Yours, I am yours, 6 00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:36.049 I am yours. Send Me Lord, I am your. Welcome to 7 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:39.490 the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In this episode we have an interview with 8 00:00:39.609 --> 00:00:45.409 Melissa Pollu, who talks to us about abortion and racism in America. Please 9 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:51.719 join us as we cover this topic from a Gospel Center perspective. I felt 10 00:00:52.159 --> 00:01:04.670 show, passish, touch your use me love. I've welcome to the Gospel 11 00:01:04.670 --> 00:01:08.189 Center pro life podcast. Appreciate you, guys listening. We have a special 12 00:01:08.230 --> 00:01:12.989 guest with us today and we're going to talk about a special subject and a 13 00:01:14.069 --> 00:01:17.510 difficult subject for many of us to deal with and to think through, but 14 00:01:17.549 --> 00:01:21.060 hopefully we'll be able to help you guys think through this subject together, and 15 00:01:21.219 --> 00:01:25.819 it's the subject of abortion and light of race relations and just with all the 16 00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:27.900 things that we've got going on in our nation with the kill think of George 17 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:34.010 Floyd and and all the other issues that surround this. We really thought that 18 00:01:34.129 --> 00:01:37.890 we need to talk about abortion in light of those things. And who better 19 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:41.930 to talk about this with then Melissa Polu. She's been involved in prolife ministry 20 00:01:41.969 --> 00:01:46.209 for a long time. When I first got involved in prolife ministry she was 21 00:01:46.290 --> 00:01:49.519 involved and we've known each other for a long time. Heard and her husband 22 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.640 Devin just been a blessing to the Ministry of Cities for life and so we 23 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.319 wanted to bring her own and we also have Vicky on the line. Just 24 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.040 so you guys know. We're on a skype call here, so the audio 25 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:04.590 might not be exactly what it normally is, but we hope it will still 26 00:02:04.590 --> 00:02:07.509 be a blessing you guys. But yes, say hey Vicki, hey there 27 00:02:07.550 --> 00:02:12.229 everyone. Hopefully you can hear Vicky well, and then just introduce yourself real 28 00:02:12.270 --> 00:02:15.590 quick, Melissa, and what you Endevin are doing there on the college campus? 29 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:20.219 Absolutely so I'm my name is Melissa Pellu, my husband's Devon. We 30 00:02:20.379 --> 00:02:24.340 are the chapter directors at went from University and rock kill, South Carolina, 31 00:02:24.979 --> 00:02:30.770 with a ministry callrational Christie, which is Latin for the reason of Christ. 32 00:02:30.810 --> 00:02:38.449 So we do apologetics evangelism ministry, where we are training college students to understand 33 00:02:38.490 --> 00:02:40.729 more about what they believe why they believe it. So we deal with the 34 00:02:40.770 --> 00:02:46.120 number of different issues associated with a lot of the ideas, secular ideas that 35 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:51.759 are kind of infiltrated the college campus, and then also evangelized students of other 36 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:58.120 worldviews, whether they are Muslim or skeptic, a fist, what have you. 37 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.710 So we deal with quite a bit of issues related to, you know, 38 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:06.550 God's existence and how we contrast the Bible, but also these ethical issues 39 00:03:06.789 --> 00:03:09.710 like abortion, we deal with quite a bit. So our training on the 40 00:03:09.789 --> 00:03:14.860 sidewalk has really been beneficial. Just, you know, being on the sidewalk 41 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:21.860 and talking to abortion minded women and families has been very beneficial as we're communicating 42 00:03:21.979 --> 00:03:25.340 how to have those conversations and, in the pro defending the pro life issue 43 00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:30.650 on the college campus with students who many times don't affirm the sanctity of human 44 00:03:30.729 --> 00:03:36.250 life. So we are very thankful. You can look us at Rashio Christie 45 00:03:36.250 --> 00:03:39.930 at went at university and we're just blessed to be here today. Yeah, 46 00:03:39.969 --> 00:03:45.719 appreciate you coming on and we did a podcast a couple of months ago with 47 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:50.360 Devon talking about some issues with pro life apologetics and things like that. It 48 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:53.879 was real blessing to us, real blessing to have him join us on that. 49 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:59.669 But we've got you on and anybody guess why we would have Melissa own 50 00:03:59.909 --> 00:04:02.110 when we're talking about race relations? Why would we have you on Melyssa? 51 00:04:02.990 --> 00:04:06.949 Well, if we were on video, I mean if you evident, but 52 00:04:08.550 --> 00:04:12.699 I am indeed black and and, like you said, being involved in pro 53 00:04:12.819 --> 00:04:16.740 life activism for so long on the sidewalk and just in different areas, some 54 00:04:17.139 --> 00:04:23.019 doing conferences and trainings and things like that, you know having that that experience, 55 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:28.170 but it is not a commonality. It's not very common to have a 56 00:04:28.610 --> 00:04:31.449 lot of black prolife activists. So I think that that's that might be why 57 00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:33.930 you brought me on. I'm not sure, though. Yeah. Well, 58 00:04:34.009 --> 00:04:38.370 first and foremost we brought you on because you're a you're a godly woman that 59 00:04:38.449 --> 00:04:42.199 has a godly perspective. So that's the first thing. But you happen to 60 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:46.800 be a black woman and you have some experience in dealing with race from a 61 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.240 perspective that I don't have and that Vicky don't have, and so we thought 62 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:54.110 to bring you in this conversation because, yeah, like you said, there 63 00:04:54.310 --> 00:04:59.750 is a unfortunately a scarcity of black individuals within the pro life movement, even 64 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.269 though it's becoming more and more from what I see. Is that what you're 65 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:05.990 seeing to yeah, I think people are starting to at least think about the 66 00:05:06.029 --> 00:05:11.060 issue a lot more. But I'm really been blessed to see on the Saturday 67 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:14.660 mornings with the prayer walks, a lot of black churches in the Charlotte area 68 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:20.420 really becoming active and participating. So from that perspective I'm really encouraged. Yeah, 69 00:05:21.009 --> 00:05:26.769 sure as well. So you know, like I said, before we 70 00:05:26.850 --> 00:05:30.089 get started with this, I'm going to ask you some questions. It's going 71 00:05:30.089 --> 00:05:31.970 to be real relational and I just want you to talk. I want you 72 00:05:32.009 --> 00:05:36.160 to share your heart. I want people to understand from a black woman's perspective 73 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:41.399 the issue of abortion and dealing with, you know, race and and dealing 74 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.839 with abortion and light of race and all of that, and I think it 75 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.199 will help us to understand because, you know, let's face it, lessen, 76 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:49.589 you've been out there, Vicky, you've been out there for many years 77 00:05:49.709 --> 00:05:54.149 too, and you seen the majority of the women and going into the the 78 00:05:54.230 --> 00:05:59.110 trabe abortion clinic are unfortunately black women that are going in, and so it's 79 00:05:59.110 --> 00:06:03.269 a reality that we deal with on a regular basis, dealing with rays, 80 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:09.100 dealing with women who are not the same color as us and trying to see 81 00:06:09.100 --> 00:06:13.819 from their perspective. Trying to see me from a woman's perspective is really hard, 82 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:15.699 but trying to see from a black woman's perspective is even harder, you 83 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:20.529 know. So we want to get some perspective from you and I do want 84 00:06:20.529 --> 00:06:25.290 to talk about kind of the larger picture of things, and that's where I 85 00:06:25.370 --> 00:06:28.410 want to start, if you don't mind. I don't want to start with 86 00:06:28.569 --> 00:06:33.759 the idea of systematic racism or systemic racism. Is this in your opinion and 87 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:40.600 from your experience? Is this reality in our country? Yeah, so that 88 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.319 is, you know, a very hot button issue right, systemic racism, 89 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.189 and you know, Struck, you know, are some people call it structural 90 00:06:49.389 --> 00:06:56.470 racism or institutional racism. Those are kind of synonyms and I just to give 91 00:06:56.670 --> 00:07:02.459 a general popular definition of what we're talking about for those who are not aware. 92 00:07:03.100 --> 00:07:06.819 When we're talking about racism, you know, the center of racism in 93 00:07:06.939 --> 00:07:13.819 terms of, you know, individuals who have racist intent and motives, and 94 00:07:13.939 --> 00:07:20.209 they prejudge people and they have racist attitudes towards someone else or attitude superiority based 95 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:25.889 on in color. So we would recognize that as racism, I think all 96 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:32.319 people would. And then systemic racism, the general popular definition would be something 97 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:41.759 along the lines of the social or economic, political, educational legal systems as 98 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:47.069 well, that they would say that those systems in our country are designed in 99 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:58.269 a systematic way, of foundational way, to oppress minorities into somehow grant or 100 00:07:58.550 --> 00:08:03.180 set white people up for success or some sort of too in a superior way. 101 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:11.220 So the systems systemically, the systems of the country are all designed to 102 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:18.370 basically oppressed black people and it's just and so it from the perspective of someone 103 00:08:18.410 --> 00:08:20.769 who holds to that, not myself, I'm just saying from the perspective of 104 00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:24.889 someone who holds it out. Sure, yeah, when they look at the 105 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:31.720 world or they look at opportunities, they would say they would feel that they're 106 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:37.200 all there's a minority, would feel like they are set up for failure from 107 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.750 the moment that they're born, that they're not on equal footing or a equal 108 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:46.070 set up. Think that things are not equal, equally set up for minorities 109 00:08:46.110 --> 00:08:52.190 and white people. So part of the and I'll tell you that that a 110 00:08:52.429 --> 00:08:54.389 question is hard to answer, kind of kind of a loaded question, and 111 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:56.539 it was, it was intended to be. I wanted to kind of get 112 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.379 your reaction on this. Yeah, yeah, and and I was just I 113 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:07.820 want to pack watch hard to answer because there are so there's just their various 114 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:09.929 definitions, even I mean if you go to us, you know, to 115 00:09:11.090 --> 00:09:15.929 some scholarship and academic and a sex on the seculo campus, versus some of 116 00:09:16.009 --> 00:09:18.250 the popular definitions that are in a lot of the books that are are out 117 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:24.639 now. But the and that's why I think that the issue itself, it's 118 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:30.840 so it's so ambiguous, this idea of systemic racism, that I don't think 119 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.720 it's something that we can that a person can hold tightly onto and a firm 120 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.509 in a dogmatic way. So I know it's not a yes or no answer, 121 00:09:43.470 --> 00:09:45.990 but yeah, it's ex actually kind of what I was what I was 122 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:48.429 aiming at. Vicky, you want to pipe in on this. Well, 123 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:52.059 no, I actually I totally agree with you the list said, because I've 124 00:09:52.059 --> 00:09:56.980 been really grappling and and I just wrote a note to a friend who is 125 00:09:56.220 --> 00:10:01.700 very much involved in in, I guess, eradicating systemic racism and said the 126 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:07.059 more I read, actually the more confused then it is. Right, it 127 00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:11.490 is a confusing issue an area, because what you're looking at, basically, 128 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:16.409 it mean it's a social theory. Right. So with theories what you're doing 129 00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:20.559 is you're looking at data and you're looking at different things. And so what 130 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:26.840 the person who's saying that the systemic racist social theorist? They're looking at disparities, 131 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:31.879 right, so they're saying there's economic disparities between whites and blacks, there's 132 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:37.870 educational disparities, there's private property disparities, right, so they're they're looking at 133 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:43.830 those disparities and saying, well, it has there has to be some systemic 134 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:48.230 reason that that is happening. But this does the the problem when you just 135 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:54.019 when you just narrow down to that, is that you you that you don't 136 00:10:54.059 --> 00:11:00.379 take into account other factors, things like marriage, right we I mean even 137 00:11:00.379 --> 00:11:05.210 when you look at economics with black children, if they are raised in a 138 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:11.690 two parent family, there's only about a seven percent poverty rate. Okay, 139 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:16.769 and that that's and you compare that with white children who are raised in a 140 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.799 two parent home, there's about a twenty two percent poverty rate. Okay, 141 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.600 now that's so amazing statistic. I have never heard that. MMM. So, 142 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:30.679 yeah, black children raised in two parent homes typically don't or not impoverished. 143 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.750 And so that and I think that. So that's that's what I'm saying. 144 00:11:33.750 --> 00:11:39.429 It's trying. It's hard to blame or to pin these disparities solely on 145 00:11:41.149 --> 00:11:46.870 this systemic issues when there are these personal issues, these individual issues. They're's 146 00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:50.740 these there's cultural issues on with, you know, again with marriage and with 147 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:56.779 audio, how think, mindsets and that choices. It kind of it does 148 00:11:56.220 --> 00:12:03.490 it. It does does remove personal responsibility from the equation. Right, so 149 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:07.370 you're able to say that it's I can't achieve this or I can't do this 150 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:11.570 where I'm doing this because things are just set up and stacked against me. 151 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:16.039 And you know, things, when we really look at it, we don't 152 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:22.879 want to disparage. Think like if we're going to say that all these privilege, 153 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.600 like privilege, for instance, that there's things, I mean marriage privilege, 154 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:31.110 like I brought up right, there's privilege when you're point into a family 155 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:35.590 with two parents. So we don't want to take but we don't want to 156 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:39.549 destroy those in like marriage, for instance, right, because there's this species. 157 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:45.100 Right. So it's just a very abstract thing to me. Now they're 158 00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:50.580 they're there. Can I believe the answer is to just look at individual policies 159 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:56.139 and to see if there are policies that do harm, you know, black 160 00:12:56.259 --> 00:13:01.450 people, whether intentional or unintentional. I think if you take that then it's 161 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:07.610 just it's more defined, it's more based on real life and data and things 162 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:11.769 like that. But if, yeah, you're just this whole this, this 163 00:13:11.970 --> 00:13:16.679 whole idea, that that's what's happened, it is take this whole idea and 164 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:22.879 we're looking at all these asperities without looking at individual just maybe individual policies and 165 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.190 things like that that that made need to be changed. But in general, 166 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:31.389 I just I don't hold firmly to the idea of system and racism just because 167 00:13:31.429 --> 00:13:37.830 it's ambiguous and I'd rather look at individual areas where there may be some some 168 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:41.059 you know, some things that are unfair, and deal with it from that 169 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:46.620 perspective. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I did want to touch on that 170 00:13:46.659 --> 00:13:50.940 again as a big picture question, because it's a question that a lot of 171 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.860 you know. We hear it again. It's like a buzz word in the 172 00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:56.730 media systemic racism and this idea of systemic racism. And you know, when 173 00:13:56.769 --> 00:14:01.210 certain statistics and certain things are laid out to me, I'm like, well, 174 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:03.009 yeah, there's a there's a system in place. It seems to be 175 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:09.169 bent against minorities, against black people, and you know, but then you 176 00:14:09.210 --> 00:14:13.000 look at other statistics it's like like what you shared, it's like and, 177 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:16.000 all things equal, there's not this systemic racism. And so it's it's really 178 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.960 confusing and it's really hard for me, again as a white man, to 179 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.240 come from that perspective and to see that. And so, yeah, I 180 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:26.470 wanted to hear your perspective, but now just to kind of bring it into 181 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:31.309 to what we really want to talk about, which is the issue of abortion 182 00:14:31.870 --> 00:14:35.350 and racings, because there's no doubt you mentioned it when we first started. 183 00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:41.700 The Sin of racism, the sin of racism exists absolutely. I think you 184 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:46.179 would probably agree that it's going to exist until Jesus returns, no matter how 185 00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:50.940 much we try to fight against it. It's like any other sin and it 186 00:14:50.059 --> 00:14:52.970 does have its own unique issues that it causes. Of course, I'm not 187 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:56.330 trying to marginalize that as just any other sin. It has issues that it 188 00:14:56.409 --> 00:15:03.169 makes but, like every sin, only Jesus Christ is gonna Remedy that. 189 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:07.919 That's that's a reality and I appreciate you saying that, but it does at 190 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:15.840 least the issue of race and abortion do come up in a lot of conversations 191 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.759 and and, just like I said, on a daytoday basis in our outreach, 192 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.789 we deal with young black women going into the abortion centers and I've been 193 00:15:22.870 --> 00:15:28.190 called a racist so many time I can't even count. And I'm sure you, 194 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:31.230 Melissa, and you can crackt me if I'm wrong, seet out there 195 00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:35.860 at the abortion planning you probably been called a racist or called with it whatever. 196 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:39.980 Yeah, the names. Yeah, that I want to repeat. But, 197 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.340 yeah, sell out things like that, of course. Yeah, yeah, 198 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.820 that's kind of kind of funny the way that people just kind of throw 199 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:52.490 these terms out there. But how how do the issues in your mind of 200 00:15:52.129 --> 00:16:00.330 racism and abortion intersect in the University of America? All right, so again 201 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:06.200 we have from the racism exists, and so we because the hardest sinful right, 202 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:11.399 we love darkness rather than light, and as long as we are in 203 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:14.039 the condition, we can, you know, as long as we're human, 204 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.830 we can have sinful attitudes and racism is a sinful way of thinking and looking 205 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:22.110 at the world now and know and we look at the issue of abortion, 206 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:29.549 we look at the reality that abortion kills unborn onoraty children at a much higher 207 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:34.340 rate then the national average. And we're talking about a we're talking about minority 208 00:16:34.539 --> 00:16:42.779 population where you have sixteen million black children who have died due to abortion. 209 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:49.610 We're talking about the number one killer of the black community, where it's five 210 00:16:49.690 --> 00:16:55.730 times higher for abortion to occur in a black family than a white family. 211 00:16:55.850 --> 00:16:59.970 So when we look at the history of abortion and we bring it so looking 212 00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:03.480 just looking at those that of abortion now being the number one killer black community, 213 00:17:03.839 --> 00:17:08.240 we look at the history with with the abortion movement in America, of 214 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:15.509 course, Miss Margaret Sanger was the proponent and she had very her thoughts were 215 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:22.230 based on a eugenics model and Eugenics, and I know you have had talked 216 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:26.150 to devil with that in a previous show. A eugenics model is basically design 217 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:30.700 where you look at humans based on their their potential, their function, what 218 00:17:30.859 --> 00:17:37.380 they can what they can give to society and some people are considered non useful 219 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:42.339 and that in that way, and so black people because of all of the 220 00:17:44.329 --> 00:17:48.450 you know, the slavery and all civil rights, all these all these things 221 00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:52.970 that we're going through, the largely uneducated black population. They were included in 222 00:17:53.170 --> 00:18:00.440 that eugenics model of those that Margaret Singer deemed unworthy. The neger project, 223 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.920 I think it was one thousand nine hundred and thirty two, was aimed at 224 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:08.960 the black community, where the pastors were encouraging the use of birth control and 225 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:17.630 and that. So population control is was basically the idea. And if we 226 00:18:17.750 --> 00:18:21.430 look at the numbers we have, we see a population control issue. So 227 00:18:21.589 --> 00:18:26.660 when a population targeted because of their skin color, that is racism right. 228 00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:34.019 And we look at the presence of the abortion clinics in poor and minority areas, 229 00:18:34.579 --> 00:18:41.450 that is a marketing tool that is designed to normalize abortion and to target 230 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:48.009 that community. When you place a business in a certain community, you are 231 00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:52.569 targeting that community. Is there for a purpose. And so the fact that 232 00:18:52.170 --> 00:18:57.240 the the roots of abortion were race were based on a eugenics model that targeted 233 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:03.079 black people for Population Control. And then the fact that we now have force 234 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.440 planets in majority of black neighborhoods, we have now abortionist in number one and 235 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:15.109 killer of black people. It is completely tied to racism because of the targeting 236 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:21.269 based on skin color. Right it also, I like what you said the 237 00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:27.940 about the root issue, because I think the root issue is very similar in 238 00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:36.500 the killing of the unborn and racism. In both cases the value, of 239 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:44.609 the value drinchic human value people group is is questioned, is put into Questian 240 00:19:44.849 --> 00:19:49.289 and and as soon as that happens, then you can harm that class of 241 00:19:49.329 --> 00:19:53.440 humans because you feel that their value is less than yours. And that's true 242 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:57.599 for the unborn and that's true for the minorities. That has been true throughout 243 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:06.440 all who through right dehumanization of population, whether where there's the US, whether 244 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:10.630 it's the blocks, you know now it's babies. And one of the sad, 245 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:15.990 sad realities is when we look at civil rights and we look at oppression 246 00:20:17.029 --> 00:20:21.269 against black people, and you know, it's a I mean what the black 247 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:25.140 population has been through in this country from forgery years, you know, from 248 00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:27.700 slave before under years to where we are now. It's just remarkable in my 249 00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:33.579 opinion. You know, it's just amazing what God has done through many people 250 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.250 who fought for rights and who stood, but oldly and courageously, for those 251 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:41.369 rights. But what you find it when people are oppressed for so long, 252 00:20:41.529 --> 00:20:51.559 many times they become oppressors themselves, and this is sometimes very unconsciously because of 253 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.000 a sense of a loss of power and things of that nature. So we 254 00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:00.799 now see black women, black families killing their own children, and this is 255 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.990 an act of oppression because, like you said, Vicki the dehumanization of that 256 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:11.069 child in the womb, and that is what allows a part. That is 257 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:17.349 what's that is a a a process. That will you know that Lee city 258 00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:22.859 children's death. So it's a very sad reality. That what happens, you 259 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:29.220 know, from the racist attitudes and turning the community and then people internal as 260 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:34.170 it all right and they themselves become the oppressors. That that is historically happened 261 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:40.690 in pretty much every other civilization as well. Wow, right, yeah, 262 00:21:40.730 --> 00:21:45.009 that's Melissa. That's that's a unique perspective there that you bring that up, 263 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:48.960 and that kind of brings me to another one of the points that I want 264 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.880 to touch on, because what you just said, and you know I have 265 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.359 to process it. I take your word for it and I believe you're telling 266 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.839 me the truth. For sure, I have to processes, to think about 267 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:03.069 it, but even if I did fully agree with what you just said. 268 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:07.309 Can I even voice that? And so what I'm asking is, you know, 269 00:22:07.549 --> 00:22:10.990 is is it the place of, you know, for a pro life 270 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:15.230 white man like myself to say things like what you just said or to point 271 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:18.579 out some of the issues with plan parenthood, you know, with Margaret saying? 272 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.500 I mean we got the toppling of statues across this country of confederate soldiers 273 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:26.299 and all that. We're not going to get into that subject. But as 274 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:29.140 I look at that, I'm thinking, man, they should be toppling the 275 00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:33.410 statues of Margaret Singer and getting these things. It's just like provable as a 276 00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:37.009 racist right. But is it mob is it my place, is it Vicki's 277 00:22:37.049 --> 00:22:41.690 places as a white pro lifers to address those issues? And then, if 278 00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:45.519 it is our plays, how do we address those issues without it just being 279 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.319 a landmine? You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean it's I 280 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.240 mean it is a difficult area to to navigate through, you know, because 281 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:56.880 you do want to be sensitive. But Truth is truth, right, the 282 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:02.670 word of God is is unchanging. It is our standard, and so my 283 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:07.630 shortance would be yes, you should address that, speak on that, talk 284 00:23:07.710 --> 00:23:14.180 about that reality, because it is a sinful the ascent of abortion it has. 285 00:23:14.259 --> 00:23:19.059 So it's the effects or self profound on the black community and so yes, 286 00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:23.900 I encourage my white brothers and sisters to talk about that and to not 287 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:29.009 in to not back down from God's truth. Now, as far as talking 288 00:23:29.049 --> 00:23:32.490 about it and how we do it, I think that that is is maybe 289 00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:37.210 more more of the the question denial of how do we do that? You 290 00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:41.480 know, yeah, I guess the context that I'm speaking to is, you 291 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.759 know, I think there's a national context, certainly for you pro life leaders, 292 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.000 for politicians even to be speaking about this, but the context primarily I'm 293 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.680 speaking to is at the abortion center with an abortion minded mom as I'm sharing 294 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.109 some of the statistics and some of the things because, you know, you 295 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:00.470 get into those heated conversations, they want to come over and set you straight 296 00:24:02.029 --> 00:24:07.309 and sometimes I almost in well, I'm actually very careful and walking on eggshells 297 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:11.099 if I'd bring up the issues of the fact that that abortion clinic is located 298 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:15.740 in a minority neighborhood, that there's also another abortion clinic just around the corner 299 00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:18.460 and that you're not going to find those abortion clinics in a white neighborhood, 300 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.579 he is not going to find it. So I guess that's more the context 301 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:25.849 I'm speaking of. Is it my place to say that? How do I 302 00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:29.890 need to address that and not make it into just a racial fight, because 303 00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:32.529 that's not what I'm trying to get into with an abortionnt of mom, you 304 00:24:32.609 --> 00:24:34.250 know, all right, right, you're at that point. You don't mean 305 00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:37.799 you're not trying to get into the deeper issues of race and race relations. 306 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.240 Right, you want that. You want her to see that that child is 307 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.799 worthy of life and that God design that child and that she should not murder 308 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.759 her child. So again, I think just and and and for being on 309 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:53.069 the sidewalk, maybe I can, I can share some of the things I've 310 00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:57.150 heard that I thought were insensitive. Yeah, yeah, please do that. 311 00:24:57.349 --> 00:25:03.910 No, yeah, just saying that, you know, your black baby matters. 312 00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:07.339 You're a black baby this and you're a black baby that. I think 313 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:10.980 we need to be careful about saying that. I mean in this culture, 314 00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:15.539 I mean Godi, people are so triggered, you know, and we with 315 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:18.059 everything going on, we need to maybe be careful about that. And just 316 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:23.369 even with you know, black, black unborn lives matter, just with that 317 00:25:23.529 --> 00:25:26.809 whole thing with black lives matter, because it's such a power, you know, 318 00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:32.450 it's such a convincing movement to a lot of people. It can that 319 00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:34.960 can trigger some things for people where they just shut down and they're not going 320 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.039 to talk to you or they're going to make certain assumptions about you. I 321 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.000 think for those issues it is better dealt with in an ongoing situation, like 322 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:47.799 if you're if you have someone that you're engaging, you know car that you 323 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.430 that you stopped and that you want it in your talking to them. You 324 00:25:51.509 --> 00:25:56.390 can talk to them about how this place is is a place that is, 325 00:25:56.309 --> 00:26:00.190 you know, as a white supremacist tool. You know, I think in 326 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:03.430 a conversation that's very good. I don't think that it should be the first 327 00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:07.259 thing you bring up, but I think I think it does have its place 328 00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:12.859 because ultimately this is a humanity issue and so in that that's one thing too. 329 00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:18.059 I think that even in the within the prolife community, we don't we 330 00:26:18.690 --> 00:26:22.049 with the George Floyd and the Brianna Taylor and the modd Aubrey. We don't. 331 00:26:22.049 --> 00:26:26.450 I don't think. I don't think the answers just to deflect to olbortion 332 00:26:26.609 --> 00:26:29.970 use. The first is number one killer, you know, and those case 333 00:26:30.250 --> 00:26:33.440 is automatically because I think we have an opportunity to say that was wrong what 334 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.359 happened to George Floyd, you know, for that police officer to kill him 335 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.599 that way. I mean we watching that video and this man asking for his 336 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.240 mom, you know, regardless of this past choices or that, but asking 337 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.150 for his mom and being murdered right there on a video in front of us. 338 00:26:48.670 --> 00:26:52.269 That's difficult. So I think we can say, you know, that 339 00:26:52.390 --> 00:26:57.710 those things are horrible and that God does not approve inappropriate situation. Is Not 340 00:26:57.829 --> 00:27:03.019 every racial incident. Obviously is a is a is an issue of racism that's 341 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:06.380 reported in the media, but verify will issues. We want to show that 342 00:27:06.500 --> 00:27:11.019 we care right that the that we care about humanity and just it's such a 343 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:15.809 touchy issue. But I just think sometimes if you're on if you're on a 344 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:22.049 microphone and just talking about race or doing a race education class, isn't necessarily 345 00:27:22.289 --> 00:27:26.369 the best time, at least right now. Yeah, but but I think 346 00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:32.359 talking about humanity itself, I think that is a great way to reach people, 347 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:37.920 you know, because the idea what media is reinforcing in a lot of 348 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.599 the meet the books now and everything is that. You know, white people 349 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.950 don't see you as a person. Why? People don't see it as equal. 350 00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:48.069 You know, white people are part of this system. This you know, 351 00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:52.150 when we talk about systemic racism, white people are part of that whole 352 00:27:52.269 --> 00:27:56.269 system that's holding you down. They don't care about you and they just want 353 00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.740 to oppress you and they think that they're better that you. So you awhere 354 00:28:00.980 --> 00:28:06.740 that this is a monset that is being that a person not not not necessarily 355 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:08.180 all the time, a hundred percent of the time, but many times a 356 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:12.890 black person will that's their perception coming to the situation, right, and so 357 00:28:14.170 --> 00:28:17.529 these they pull in and they see a bunch of white people there. There's 358 00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:22.730 got a we gotta somehow connect with their humanity, and that's really important because 359 00:28:22.890 --> 00:28:26.599 we want to show them that they're that we're all equal, and so is 360 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:30.200 that child. You know, right and now I did, all made in 361 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.359 the image of God, and I think that I'm uniting and one of the 362 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.559 most powerful things we can say in terms of connecting as human beings. We 363 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:42.269 are all made in God's image. Slogans that I use now even are black 364 00:28:42.349 --> 00:28:47.869 lives are sacred. You know, black lives matter to God. I think 365 00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:52.349 those, you know, even signs that say things like that or hell, 366 00:28:52.470 --> 00:28:59.140 I figure helpful, you know, because it shows that we care about the 367 00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:03.099 sanctity of all human life. You know. So, yeah, but it 368 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:06.980 is difficult, Daniel. You know it's even difficult for me times to talk 369 00:29:06.980 --> 00:29:10.609 of what might be easier for me to talk about it then maybe for yourself. 370 00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.769 So well, you know, I'll tell you just from experience, in 371 00:29:14.849 --> 00:29:19.210 which you know these rays as much, because, you know, recently especially, 372 00:29:19.329 --> 00:29:25.039 I have stayed away from any conversations about race, about the fact that 373 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.000 more black babies are killed by abortion that are born. I mean, I 374 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.720 don't I don't even say that commonly now as I'm talking to abortion minded women 375 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.359 or calling out there. I just don't make race an issue because to me 376 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.109 really it's not an issue. You know what I mean? As far as 377 00:29:38.309 --> 00:29:42.509 like, whether you're killing your black child or your white child or your Hispanic 378 00:29:42.549 --> 00:29:45.349 Child, whatever, you're killing the child and it's wrong, right. But 379 00:29:47.269 --> 00:29:51.829 as much as I am that ye other meet is reinforcing this this racial division 380 00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:55.660 over and over and over and over, and so we need we have to 381 00:29:55.740 --> 00:30:00.259 find a way to uny and bring these people to the understanding that we're that 382 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:03.180 we're all created in the image of God, you know. So I think 383 00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:10.529 that we want to communicate that's going to resonate in this world that's so divided, 384 00:30:10.769 --> 00:30:15.009 you know. Yeah, right, I know. Just recently, I'd 385 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:19.089 say since the George Floyd murder and all this racial tension and stuff, it 386 00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:23.319 seems like I've heard more and more of the people walking into the abortion center 387 00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:29.599 of accusations of racism toward myself. Yeah, I'm talking to me white boy 388 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.000 out there. You know. Would you say that's case? Vicky? We 389 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.670 heard it today. There was a change where we were being called racist because 390 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:41.150 we were offering help. I don't know why we were. We certainly had 391 00:30:41.230 --> 00:30:45.309 not made any any racist remark, but but that's where it it started off 392 00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:48.589 asn't saying, of course, you've heard this a thousand times, you should 393 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:53.259 not be judging you're judging us, and then ultimately that we were racist in 394 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:59.980 because, as we were judging what we're predominantly black women at that point walking 395 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.809 into the abortion center. Whilst to be aware of you know, the the 396 00:31:04.490 --> 00:31:10.690 number one best selling the New York Times right now is white fragility by Robin 397 00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:17.210 D'Angelo. And she's a sosteologist who basically says that all white people are racist. 398 00:31:17.450 --> 00:31:22.519 Okay, so, whether subconsciously, whether you realize it or not, 399 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:30.160 your whiteness is blinded you to your racism and that you can come to repent. 400 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.349 Not Well, she doesn't call it repentance, but you can come to 401 00:31:33.470 --> 00:31:37.990 realize that your whiteness is, in a sense evil. And so this is 402 00:31:38.109 --> 00:31:44.269 the number one best seller. Okay, wow, and white woman. Okay. 403 00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:48.299 And so he's saying that white people are racist. Just from for you 404 00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:51.819 to say that you're not a racist, it's just your white fragility showing, 405 00:31:52.299 --> 00:31:56.420 which is you're trying to so and you're doing I mean, there's nothing you 406 00:31:56.460 --> 00:32:00.380 can say. You're due to prod you, you are instantly labeled in. 407 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:05.210 There is there's no, no way out of the rock. Yeah, that's 408 00:32:05.250 --> 00:32:08.369 what so, Melissa. Are you saying then, just for for the listeners 409 00:32:08.410 --> 00:32:13.809 who are because a lot of our listeners are daily out at the abortion centers 410 00:32:13.849 --> 00:32:16.039 and that's a lot of our listener base or sidebaught counsels and stuff like that. 411 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.920 So would you say, then, the best thing to do in those 412 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.839 situations where, let's say, an abortion minded mom walking in who this happens 413 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.559 to be black, yields back at you and says you're a racist. So 414 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:31.190 the best response to that would just be to ignore that and talk about humanities. 415 00:32:31.230 --> 00:32:37.589 That that what happened, because if you defend go and defend yourself, 416 00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:44.740 that is seen is and in terms of modern theory, critical race theory and 417 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:49.140 things like that, that is seen as you're showing your racism or because, 418 00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:54.059 yeah, this is why you'll see people in these videos or these talks or 419 00:32:54.579 --> 00:33:00.250 even even people, even friends, Christian Friends of mine, which is Sade. 420 00:33:00.410 --> 00:33:04.289 You'll see them kind of innocence, repent of their whiteness, right, 421 00:33:04.849 --> 00:33:08.609 they are so sorry for they don't I don't. I don't know if they 422 00:33:08.650 --> 00:33:12.730 know what they're sorry for, but there's just they're sorry and they're repentant to 423 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:17.720 what people right. So for that is seen as a you them. That 424 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:23.039 is seen is a good thing because they are their acknowledgy and they're welcome up 425 00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:28.630 to understand their whiteness is evil. Okay. Now, when you defend it, 426 00:33:29.349 --> 00:33:32.589 it shows that you are you your fragile and this sort of thing. 427 00:33:32.869 --> 00:33:37.269 So, yeah, I would so, regardless if you try to defend yourself 428 00:33:37.390 --> 00:33:40.980 or not, you're still racist. You know, it's kind of darned if 429 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:45.779 you do. darned if you don't send exactly to get that would be yeah. 430 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:52.940 So just focus on humanity, you know, try to speak through that 431 00:33:52.099 --> 00:33:57.569 that you care about that individual. Yeah, and those things. That's all 432 00:33:57.650 --> 00:34:00.369 you can do in a situations, I believe. Yeah, absolutely. One 433 00:34:00.369 --> 00:34:05.089 of the things just came to mind is I'm not out there as a white 434 00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:07.929 man. I'm out there is a Christian. That's primarily why I'm out there. 435 00:34:08.409 --> 00:34:10.960 If I wasn't a Christian I wouldn't be out at the abortion center at 436 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.559 all. I wouldn't care about those babies or those women or anything. So 437 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.719 yeah, I mean we're speaking out of our love for God, our love 438 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.159 for people. So appreciate you. Appreciate you saying that and sharing all of 439 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:28.510 that. Point people to Christ in those situations because if you get if you 440 00:34:28.630 --> 00:34:31.230 get caught up in that, it's you're not going to be able to have 441 00:34:31.309 --> 00:34:35.750 a fruitful of change. It ends up it's becoming a distraction. Any mean, 442 00:34:35.909 --> 00:34:39.139 I'll just say there's a temptation as a yeah, you young black woman 443 00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:43.139 is walking into the abortion center and she calls out to me and calls me 444 00:34:43.179 --> 00:34:46.860 a racist. There's a temptation in me to just lay out the statistics and 445 00:34:47.059 --> 00:34:51.739 talk about plan parenthoods history, talk about market saying all that. But, 446 00:34:52.099 --> 00:34:54.130 like you said, it just becomes a distraction, it becomes a really a 447 00:34:54.289 --> 00:35:00.170 conversation that's not immediately helpful, even though it could be helpful if we sit 448 00:35:00.289 --> 00:35:05.250 down and talk at link and that scenario. It's just not help yeah, 449 00:35:05.329 --> 00:35:09.159 here I hear you say in that that's that's good advice. For sure that 450 00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:13.440 helps you. Yeah, but yeah, if you if you just become with, 451 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.800 like said, some of the modern literature that's coming out now on system 452 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:22.670 system racism and white pullage a thing like that, you really it's it's very 453 00:35:22.869 --> 00:35:29.949 deep and so you're not going to come to the resolution in those quick conversations, 454 00:35:29.989 --> 00:35:32.510 I don't believe. Yeah, well, I want us to shift the 455 00:35:32.590 --> 00:35:37.820 conversation just a little bit here, if we can, and talk about pro 456 00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:42.340 life issues in the black community and just your experience with that, because a 457 00:35:42.980 --> 00:35:46.820 lot of folks don't understand why the black community, from my perspective, because 458 00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:52.969 it has disproportionally abortion, is disproportionately affected the black community. A lot of 459 00:35:52.050 --> 00:35:55.889 folks don't understand why these issues aren't addressed in the black community. Or maybe 460 00:35:55.889 --> 00:35:59.369 they are and we're just not hearing it, obviously, because we're not, 461 00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:02.849 you know, involved on regular basis within the black community. whateverything. You 462 00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:07.360 know, put air quots there, because, I mean we're talking about different 463 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:12.320 communities and segments of communities. But within the black community are these visions talked 464 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:15.079 about? And if they're not talked about, then why? And if they 465 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:21.269 are, how are they addressed? Yeah, I find from I mean from 466 00:36:21.389 --> 00:36:23.989 the political groups. You know, one of the that is a big promise 467 00:36:24.070 --> 00:36:29.550 of politics, right, because you have your groups like the Naacp and the 468 00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:35.699 congressional black concus in these who are basically very inner time with Plant parenthood and 469 00:36:36.460 --> 00:36:42.659 these mutual relationships, and so for the black community it's kind of it's like, 470 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.820 Oh, at that date it's okay for them, you know, they're 471 00:36:45.139 --> 00:36:49.050 they're great, will plan firehoods. I can be okay plan a parenthood. 472 00:36:49.130 --> 00:36:52.730 But I think that the portion issue in general is not talked about in our 473 00:36:52.730 --> 00:36:58.889 community and I think because of it's killed, it's affected so many what people 474 00:36:59.329 --> 00:37:02.760 right, it's something that honestly, and Dad, my mom listening to this, 475 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:07.360 but it's something I've never even with my mom. I've never asked, 476 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:12.559 you know. I know that I have several friends who have had abortions, 477 00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.510 that when I was growing up, my teenage years, and they've never said 478 00:37:15.510 --> 00:37:20.469 anything else about it. It's so it's something that is not it's happening, 479 00:37:21.590 --> 00:37:24.989 but it's not talked about. And there you saying it's more like there's a 480 00:37:25.110 --> 00:37:30.699 shame factor there because so many have been affected by abortion, or it's kind 481 00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:34.059 of like the skeletons in the closet sort of thing. I think it's a 482 00:37:34.300 --> 00:37:37.619 I think it's a lot of skeletons in the closet that families don't talk about. 483 00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:44.969 And so it is and you think about it from when you talk when 484 00:37:45.090 --> 00:37:47.530 and it's there's kind of a general silence, I would say. Right. 485 00:37:47.969 --> 00:37:51.929 So then you have somebody like me, as always, talking about it, 486 00:37:52.690 --> 00:38:00.039 you know, and I might get sometimes I'll get messages from people or even 487 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.119 a family, you know family that says, you know, I had an 488 00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.920 abortion and you know this is a very important issue for me. Thank you. 489 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.869 Thank you for what you're doing. You know, I've talked to black 490 00:38:12.909 --> 00:38:15.469 women that I've gone to church with over time. Is I've talked more about 491 00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:19.590 a board portion. They started to say, you know, I've had I've 492 00:38:19.630 --> 00:38:23.230 had two abortions. I've had four abortions people that I would have never thought 493 00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:30.059 or knew. So it's just a very there's just a general silence about it, 494 00:38:30.699 --> 00:38:34.380 and so I and I think that's more of a reason to talk about 495 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.340 it, because I do want to see people healed right, I want to 496 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:42.409 see people healed in Jesus and not carrying the ground. And I would you 497 00:38:42.489 --> 00:38:45.809 know, we need more post aboard of ministries and Black Churches. But then 498 00:38:45.889 --> 00:38:49.849 even just thinking about the abortion issue, how to you know that it's a 499 00:38:50.010 --> 00:38:53.369 sin and how to you know that it's taking innocent human life? You just 500 00:38:53.489 --> 00:38:59.159 don't hear that in sermons. You don't hear that in discussions at all, 501 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.480 and so there's kind of this under and I think what it is like. 502 00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:09.030 You know, we were talking earlier about this oppressor oppressed situation right where the 503 00:39:10.590 --> 00:39:15.269 where the oppressed. Someone who feels oppressed for so long they will tend to 504 00:39:15.989 --> 00:39:22.030 oppress someone else. So it's almost like killing our own is okay, right. 505 00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:27.099 It is something that's accepted. It's something that we don't you know, 506 00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.500 we don't talk about a whole lot, but the statistics speak for themselves. 507 00:39:30.340 --> 00:39:37.860 So it's happening on a regular, accelerated basis. But then when we have 508 00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:44.210 a police officer who killed, you know, who unfairly kills one of us, 509 00:39:44.690 --> 00:39:49.170 then that is the time that we speak out right and we get infuriated. 510 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:54.519 So there is just this dope, this very double double standard in our 511 00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:59.920 community. I mean when you talking about things, even with those point like 512 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.440 the I think it was plant parenthood campaign, or may have been the now 513 00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.829 campaign, shout your abortion, you know, remember talk about your portion, 514 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:10.670 shout your abortion. Those were who was at educated white women who are doing 515 00:40:10.789 --> 00:40:15.750 that right. Yeah, you don't see a lot of black women participating in 516 00:40:15.869 --> 00:40:20.949 these days. Now Plant parent who has had some targeted campaigns to try to 517 00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:24.059 bring black women into that and they have participated, but on a like on 518 00:40:24.139 --> 00:40:30.300 a everyday level of the average person, you just don't see black people shouting 519 00:40:30.340 --> 00:40:35.539 their abortion, and so it's it is very taboo, but it continues to 520 00:40:35.659 --> 00:40:38.650 happen repeatedly, obviously. And so yeah, I don't know. I mean 521 00:40:38.690 --> 00:40:44.449 there's not a I don't think there's a a answer in terms of why that 522 00:40:44.690 --> 00:40:47.409 is, but I know that that needs to change. I think yeah, 523 00:40:47.889 --> 00:40:52.480 yeah, one of the things said, I would echo that you are saying 524 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:58.039 about how it so needs to change. Recently I did have a a woman, 525 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:00.760 a mother, and her mother's not, for me, very abortion minded. 526 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:05.550 I don't even know why they stopped. But as the discussion preceded, 527 00:41:05.670 --> 00:41:12.269 the mother of the pregnant daughter admitted that she had had a number of abortions 528 00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:15.469 and then her daughter hadn't known that. She had known maybe her mother had 529 00:41:15.550 --> 00:41:17.070 had one or two, but her mother hadn't had a number of them. 530 00:41:17.429 --> 00:41:22.059 And then the mother proceeded to to cry and talk about the pain and the 531 00:41:22.179 --> 00:41:28.980 sorrow and the despair that had been hidden from this daughter. And ultimately the 532 00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:32.849 daughter got on the RV chose life. But it struck me how, when 533 00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:37.969 any sin is in darkness, it's hidden, it just grows, it multiplies 534 00:41:38.530 --> 00:41:44.170 and if the children are seeing that, they know their MOMS have had abortions, 535 00:41:44.210 --> 00:41:46.400 but it's never talked about it, it's never talked about in a negative 536 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:52.199 way, but they do what they've what they see and what they learned from 537 00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:55.119 their parents, and so it's perpetuated. Yeah, and if you don't hear 538 00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:59.119 about it, you know if you're going to church every Sunday and you never 539 00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:04.710 heard about it and no one talk I mean you, I had no idea 540 00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:08.309 how to think about abortion, you know, and so until when I want, 541 00:42:08.469 --> 00:42:12.789 well even after I got safe, I just I never thought about it, 542 00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:17.579 I never heard about it and and it was just it was through radio. 543 00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:22.860 I heard a radio and information ad and I just started thinking about it 544 00:42:23.019 --> 00:42:27.820 more. But it's just it's not something that's talked about. Now you do 545 00:42:27.980 --> 00:42:30.969 have people like Bishop Patrick Root, and I think he's up in Riley, 546 00:42:31.369 --> 00:42:36.489 who is so outspoken, and then you have one of your votings and those 547 00:42:36.570 --> 00:42:39.769 of those who were just, you know, all about pro life issues and 548 00:42:40.010 --> 00:42:45.719 Benjamin I send Benjaman's rack. Aster Gabriel Rodgers here in in Charlotte speaks about 549 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:49.639 the issue of abortion a regular basis. He's one of the churches you mentioned 550 00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:52.639 that comes out to the prayer walks. These men have got a just awesome 551 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:55.719 in addressing the issue. Yeah, yeah, Bitch. When Watson is he's 552 00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.829 might. He was a nfl he played in the NFL. He just retired. 553 00:43:00.389 --> 00:43:04.869 He's my pastor son. He's my pastor's oldest son and he's actually spoken 554 00:43:04.909 --> 00:43:07.550 at the marks for the life and he's doing he's working on a pro life 555 00:43:07.590 --> 00:43:10.230 documentary, he's trying to get more black people to talk about it and for 556 00:43:10.309 --> 00:43:14.860 it to be more mainstream. Again in our peasers, people that are hurting 557 00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:20.019 and there is this idea that again out of side, out of mind. 558 00:43:21.340 --> 00:43:24.699 You just you get over you just pray, get over it, move on 559 00:43:25.340 --> 00:43:29.130 and don't talk about it. And so, like Vicki was saying, with 560 00:43:29.210 --> 00:43:31.369 the young girl with the abortion, amount of girl who did had no idea 561 00:43:31.369 --> 00:43:35.690 that our mother had an abortion. You just don't, you know, it's 562 00:43:35.730 --> 00:43:39.730 just kind of a secret. And then sometimes with US black prolifers, I've 563 00:43:39.809 --> 00:43:45.159 noticed that we can be more focused on our just come from political perspective. 564 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.440 Yeah, I'm to try to to try to talk to black people about you 565 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.440 know, you know, and we don't start at the heart of the issue, 566 00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:58.710 which is, you know, when you which is a humanity, because 567 00:43:58.789 --> 00:44:01.949 when we as as black people, when we accept that abortion is okay and 568 00:44:02.030 --> 00:44:07.750 as acceptable, I mean we are we are reaffirming the idea that human beings, 569 00:44:07.789 --> 00:44:12.139 that they're human beings of less value and worth. And so where we 570 00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:16.659 those ideas that even racist individuals may have against us, those ideas that Jim 571 00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:22.500 crow fought against, those ideas that that were prevalent during slavery and the reason 572 00:44:22.539 --> 00:44:29.250 for the civil war and these things. So we're we're reiterating the ideas that 573 00:44:29.449 --> 00:44:34.010 have perpetuated against us throughout, you know, throughout American history. So, 574 00:44:34.289 --> 00:44:37.530 yeah, right, do you do you find, I know you shared a 575 00:44:37.570 --> 00:44:40.719 little bit earlier, in your experience in being a black woman who is pro 576 00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:46.280 life? Do you find that you get pushed back within African American circles being 577 00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:49.920 pro life? And I know you said you had some people to reach out 578 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.110 to you who's you have shared past abortions and they're reaching out to you, 579 00:44:52.190 --> 00:44:55.989 and obviously in a positive way, but you get some negative reactions to I 580 00:44:57.070 --> 00:45:01.590 guess absolutely. Yeah, it becomes so you get the so the the what 581 00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:06.030 happens is the more at spoken. It's some people are just quiet and they'll 582 00:45:06.070 --> 00:45:09.619 just, you know, they disapprove quietly. But then you have, you 583 00:45:09.739 --> 00:45:14.219 know, the people who, you know, call you the traders and the 584 00:45:14.260 --> 00:45:19.780 uncle Tom's and and the cellouts and the coons and that you're just playing along. 585 00:45:20.659 --> 00:45:23.530 They think that you are. Again, think about that, like I'm 586 00:45:23.530 --> 00:45:27.730 really glad that you talked about the semi racism thing earlier, the idea of 587 00:45:27.849 --> 00:45:30.650 it, because they you know, again, you know, kind of going 588 00:45:30.690 --> 00:45:35.760 back to that, I'm there are these disparities sometimes in a in a general 589 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.960 sense, with some economic issues and things like that, even though it's not 590 00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:43.440 all that's not always an issue of injustice. It's just sometimes that's just how 591 00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.960 things are for certain reasons. But it's almost like, okay, pro life 592 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:52.670 is a that's a white conservative evangelical issue, you know. An't know. 593 00:45:52.789 --> 00:45:55.869 What I wanted to get to is that this idea that, you know, 594 00:45:57.349 --> 00:46:01.710 it is a Republican Democrat issue and that's why there's there's this kind of unwillingness 595 00:46:01.710 --> 00:46:05.940 to address the issue of abortion the black community. So you're you're kind of 596 00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:07.860 reiterating that, I guess. Well, yeah, it's like, you know, 597 00:46:08.420 --> 00:46:12.900 because the idea is that, okay, if you're black, you should 598 00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:20.409 be fighting for things like, you know, equal pay and reparations and black 599 00:46:20.570 --> 00:46:23.210 rights and these sort of things, and and black you should be fighting for, 600 00:46:23.969 --> 00:46:28.329 you know, against the legal system, you know, and things like 601 00:46:28.489 --> 00:46:31.920 that, or neighborhood you know, you'd should be fighting for neighborhood development and 602 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:38.480 poor community for minority communities and first the school system, flip public school system 603 00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:43.159 in the inner city fighting for abortion. That is again, that's a wide 604 00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:47.389 evangelical, Upper Club, middle upper class issue. That's that. That's their 605 00:46:47.510 --> 00:46:52.909 fight and you are ignoring your community by being a part of that. So 606 00:46:53.070 --> 00:46:58.630 that becomes the idea. And so but I think through through you, through 607 00:46:58.710 --> 00:47:02.059 educating. I mean I have several, you know, black friends that we're 608 00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:06.500 not pro life and not in just because they didn't they never thought about it, 609 00:47:07.219 --> 00:47:09.699 you know, they just it's not something I would do. But you 610 00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:13.059 know somebody wants to do you know it. You know they can do it. 611 00:47:13.179 --> 00:47:15.369 So that's the beauty you have of understanding, you know, some prolife 612 00:47:15.369 --> 00:47:21.730 apologetics and some training and how to have conversations, because all times that that 613 00:47:21.889 --> 00:47:25.969 happens in conversations one on one and through messages and tests and phone calls and 614 00:47:27.130 --> 00:47:30.079 things like that. So that's why I'm still going to say what I have 615 00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:34.480 to say and because there are people who are being affected and who are hearing 616 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:37.079 it. There's some people who are going to call you to sell out because 617 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.599 they believe that you have sold out your people and your the causes that are 618 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:44.119 important to us and that you folk for focusing on abortion again, because we 619 00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:47.110 don't talk about abortion as a community and we don't talk about the devastating effects 620 00:47:47.110 --> 00:47:53.309 and abortion on our community right and so it's it can be kind of multifaceted 621 00:47:53.389 --> 00:47:59.500 the responses, but there are people who aren't seeing the truth and seeing the 622 00:47:59.539 --> 00:48:02.980 light. And so with like you know what, regardless, you know, 623 00:48:04.059 --> 00:48:07.019 truth is truth and we have to stand on for us God in the process. 624 00:48:07.179 --> 00:48:10.940 So yeah, well, thank God we've got a Godly woman like you 625 00:48:12.139 --> 00:48:15.050 and and you're speaking out in the way that you are and you're able to 626 00:48:15.329 --> 00:48:20.010 just confront these issues head on and bring the Gospel into the equation or at 627 00:48:20.050 --> 00:48:24.369 the forefront of the conversation, because that is ultimately what's going to change the 628 00:48:24.449 --> 00:48:29.880 issue of racism and the issue of abortion and whatever other sins we deal with 629 00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.480 as human beings. It's the Gospel. Yeah, well, you know, 630 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:38.039 even with racism, you know, we have to talk me when in conversations. 631 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:40.550 I mean you can, you know, say racism is is is a 632 00:48:40.630 --> 00:48:45.429 sin. You know, I may not be racist, but there's sins in 633 00:48:45.590 --> 00:48:49.869 my heart right and we all have sin or of some sort. And so 634 00:48:50.510 --> 00:48:53.789 let's you know, God is good. God is perfect, he's holy and 635 00:48:53.869 --> 00:48:59.260 he can save anybody, you know, and so even even through racism, 636 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:05.059 God can penetrate hearts and change hearts. But it's seen as it is seen 637 00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:08.500 as the issue of our day and as the kind of the unforgivable sin. 638 00:49:09.250 --> 00:49:15.610 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's a sad reality. It's like even 639 00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:21.170 again, me, as a white Christian man, I'm sometimes like I don't 640 00:49:21.170 --> 00:49:24.079 know what I can say and what I can't say without getting getting in the 641 00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:28.679 the PR police after me. So I just say what I feel like the 642 00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:34.039 word of God says and just let the Lord deal with but it's a difficult 643 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.960 time to live in. As far as the things that you feel like you 644 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:40.230 can say, the truth, I feel like you can say without having a 645 00:49:40.269 --> 00:49:43.989 terrible backlash. And of course, you know, we've seen some of that 646 00:49:44.469 --> 00:49:49.230 in media and and all of that recently. The wortion is, I mean 647 00:49:49.429 --> 00:49:52.500 the the abortion clinic is the I. That is a war zone already, 648 00:49:53.179 --> 00:49:58.659 and then you add a racial tension war on top of that. That's going 649 00:49:58.780 --> 00:50:02.019 on in media and it's just a, you know, the perfect storm for 650 00:50:02.500 --> 00:50:07.530 you know, an explosion Alma. Yeah, and it is. But you 651 00:50:07.610 --> 00:50:12.170 know, from from a positive aspect. I see what's happening out at the 652 00:50:12.210 --> 00:50:16.090 abortion center in many ways as being like on a microcoss and the way to 653 00:50:16.250 --> 00:50:22.400 heal racial tension, because they, I think, overwhelmingly, at least the 654 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:25.440 sideball counclers I know, love people because they're people made in the image of 655 00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:29.679 God and they are reaching now to these women, not because they're black or 656 00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:32.440 white, but because their women who are in a desperate place, feeling that 657 00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:37.590 killing their child is an answer, and we have a different answer, the 658 00:50:37.789 --> 00:50:44.070 aid, a Godly, Gospel driven answer and s and so worn. It 659 00:50:44.309 --> 00:50:49.670 connects them to our humanity and we're connected to their humanity, which what I'm 660 00:50:49.670 --> 00:50:53.739 hearing you saying is the absolute crucial thing to do. When and that that 661 00:50:53.860 --> 00:50:59.219 happens regularly out there. Yeah, well, and and those. You see 662 00:50:59.300 --> 00:51:01.500 that all the time. And people don't that's one thing people don't see. 663 00:51:01.539 --> 00:51:05.849 Oh, white people don't care, you know, and these things. But 664 00:51:05.929 --> 00:51:08.530 then I see you, know you, Vicky, you know you guys on 665 00:51:08.650 --> 00:51:12.769 the RV with this young lady. Think about this. When you come to 666 00:51:12.929 --> 00:51:15.809 when a when a woman comes to an abortion clinic, are young girl comes 667 00:51:15.849 --> 00:51:19.760 abortion clinic. That's probably the lowest point of her life right. Yeah, 668 00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:24.039 and you're and you're there being Christ hands and feet and meet her there and 669 00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:29.960 in standing there for her in the gap. So talk about I mean, 670 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.909 if you want to talk about a picture of of love, of true love, 671 00:51:35.309 --> 00:51:42.550 of sacrificial love, of love for humanity, of if there's any sort 672 00:51:42.590 --> 00:51:47.940 of picture of love, virtual unity and love, it's on that sidewalk. 673 00:51:49.659 --> 00:51:53.340 You know, it's people are as. People are reaching across racial lines to 674 00:51:53.980 --> 00:52:00.980 save lives, literally save lives, and to offer help resources and it's in 675 00:52:00.139 --> 00:52:07.329 a total change in direction and one's like, hmm, it's the thing. 676 00:52:07.650 --> 00:52:12.369 Yeah, I agree. That's awesome. I appreciate you that that. That's 677 00:52:12.409 --> 00:52:16.440 actually a great note for us to end this podcast on soly. Very encouraging, 678 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:22.400 Melissa. It's very encouraging having you own and it's very enlightening to hear 679 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:25.239 your respect. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. If people 680 00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:28.360 want to get in touch with you and Devin, how do they get in 681 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:35.429 touch with you? Sure you can email us, Melissa Palu at Rassio Christie 682 00:52:35.469 --> 00:52:38.150 Dot Org. I know that's a mouthful with between my name and our ministry. 683 00:52:38.190 --> 00:52:40.710 Yeah, put it. Didn't up at it in the show notes at 684 00:52:40.750 --> 00:52:44.460 the at the bottom of the podcast, a link there. Do you guys 685 00:52:44.780 --> 00:52:47.820 what I and I you know I do talks, and Devin does you know? 686 00:52:47.900 --> 00:52:52.739 We do pro if apologetic talks, helping people to think through the issue 687 00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:55.460 of abortion, how to defend the PROLFE position. But then also, you 688 00:52:55.539 --> 00:53:00.489 know, the race is the issue of race and talking about and racial reconciliation. 689 00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:05.570 That's something that's very much on my heart and I fortunate as a part 690 00:53:05.690 --> 00:53:08.369 of that those presentations that I do. It has to be because it is 691 00:53:08.449 --> 00:53:12.920 again the number one killer of black people and we has to be an issue 692 00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:17.599 that's addressed and talk about. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, Melissa, 693 00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.000 again, I appreciate you coming on. We're going to wrap this thing 694 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:25.719 up and right, I appreciate you guys who who listen and just if you 695 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:29.110 need to get in touch with me, it's deep parks. It cities for 696 00:53:29.190 --> 00:53:31.469 lifecom. You get in touch with the Vicki. It's V Cassey Org at 697 00:53:31.510 --> 00:53:36.909 cities for lifecom and Melissa shared her contact info there. So, guys, 698 00:53:36.949 --> 00:53:39.630 we appreciate you guys listening. Hopefully you'll share this podcast. Hopefully was a 699 00:53:39.670 --> 00:53:47.780 blessing to you. Until next time, God bless me. Ove for love, 700 00:53:52.500 --> 00:54:00.969 give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 701 00:54:00.289 --> 00:54:07.690 love. No, sins too precious, and some you