Sept. 2, 2021

A Mom Who Chooses Life Miscarries, What Do You Do?

A Mom Who Chooses Life Miscarries, What Do You Do?

Over the years in sidewalk ministry, we have encountered situations where a mother who chooses life at the abortion center ends up having a miscarriage. Unfortunately in your ministry at the abortion center, you may likely deal with this situation as...


Over the years in sidewalk ministry, we have encountered situations where a mother who chooses life at the abortion center ends up having a miscarriage. Unfortunately in your ministry at the abortion center, you may likely deal with this situation as well. In this episode, we share our experiences with this and some Biblical insights that will equip you in handling these situations. 

https://leaningonherbeloved.com/hope-after-miscarriage/  

https://www.iwantthemtoremember.com/healing-after-miscarriage/ 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Sin Me, 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.789 Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel 3 00:00:11.830 --> 00:00:17.390 Center pre life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you 4 00:00:17.510 --> 00:00:21.350 in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay 5 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:36.530 tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart, use me. Welcome 6 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:40.570 to the Gospel Centered Prolife podcast. We appreciate you, guys, joining us. 7 00:00:41.049 --> 00:00:43.729 We're going to cover a subject today, as we kind of just jump 8 00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:48.049 right into the topic here, that if you're at in an abortion center for 9 00:00:48.170 --> 00:00:50.719 any length of time, you know, we've made the promise that God will 10 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:55.119 use you to say babies. You're going to see moms choose life and you're 11 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.920 going to have interactions with moms. You're likely going to have situations where you're 12 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.000 following up with a mom that chose life and even mentoring her in some capacity. 13 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:06.510 Or, you know, maybe you're a mentor you're going to be a 14 00:01:06.590 --> 00:01:10.709 mentor yourself, maybe not necessarily, even on the sidewalk, you're mentoring a 15 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:15.030 mom that chose life within your church or whatever. This is a situation that 16 00:01:15.629 --> 00:01:19.340 you're likely to encounter at some point. You probably will if you're out there 17 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:23.060 any length of time. Yeah, and it's a situation where you've had a 18 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:29.579 mom that has chosen life but then she has a miscarriage. Yeah, like, 19 00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:32.340 how do you handle that? How do you how do you, how 20 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:36.689 do you process that? MMM, personally for yourself, how do you minister 21 00:01:36.849 --> 00:01:40.890 to her? Right, you know, I'll just cheer. Some years back 22 00:01:41.049 --> 00:01:44.250 there was a situation, this was not a miscarriage. I think this is 23 00:01:44.329 --> 00:01:48.359 along the same lines of this, where we had a mom that chose life 24 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.920 and a father and we were ministering to them. I mean this is actually 25 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:55.040 probably been ten years or more, a ghost for even new you, Vicky, 26 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:59.280 okay, and we ministered this couple, built a relationship with this couple. 27 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.629 She ended up having her baby and then a couple of months later the 28 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:08.550 baby died from SIDS. Wow, had no clue what even happened. Right 29 00:02:08.710 --> 00:02:12.909 came into the room and the baby was was dead. Yeah, it's like, 30 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:15.139 how do you process that? Yeah, yeah, how do you minister 31 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:20.780 to them effectively? Heavy subject, guys, it is, but we're going 32 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:23.939 to talk through some of our experiences. And Yeah, and really from a 33 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:28.340 Biblical, of course, Gospel centered perspective. Yeah, you can how you 34 00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:30.969 can navigate through this effectively? Right, yeah, it's happened to me many 35 00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:38.129 times. It happened to one of our national missionaries very recently and she texted 36 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:39.770 me and said, I don't know what to say, I don't know what 37 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:44.289 to say to her. Can Can you guide me? So that's what kind 38 00:02:44.289 --> 00:02:49.360 of sparked this is that, as in many of these really rough situations, 39 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.000 sometimes she just just really there are no words. Yeah, but I think 40 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:58.199 there are principles that that we can pass along so that you're prepared, yeah, 41 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:02.229 for for if that happens, inevitably, whether they voiced it or not, 42 00:03:02.990 --> 00:03:07.069 they have to be questioning God. Yeah, they have to be there. 43 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:09.789 Well, I mean I think let's acknowledge to that. We ourselves. 44 00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:14.979 We're questioning, yeah, God now, Ye, not questioning his goodness. 45 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:17.860 Yeah, maybe, I certainly think it's on it. It's good to get 46 00:03:17.979 --> 00:03:22.860 honest before God. Yeah, read the Psalms and you'll see David getting very 47 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:25.979 honest before God. And so in some sense that gives us an allowance just 48 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:30.169 to be honest to God, like where are you in the situation? Yeah, 49 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:32.289 and so I think it's important, of course, for us to get 50 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:36.729 honest before the Lord, get honest with our feelings so that we can minister 51 00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:42.800 ourselves from a place of experience and relationship to the Lord, so that we 52 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.879 can bring these women into a relationship with the Lord. I will say this 53 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.960 even before we get into the meat of this. Some of you guys that 54 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.439 are brand new to this ministry, this wasn't even on your radar. Is 55 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.590 something that could happen, right, and I think just US bringing this conversation 56 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:00.870 up is going to be helpful and, yeah, making you aware that this 57 00:04:00.030 --> 00:04:04.389 is something that can happen. Yeah, to have it, as a friend 58 00:04:04.430 --> 00:04:08.710 of mine says, on your preyed are like to be praying, preparing your 59 00:04:08.750 --> 00:04:12.860 heart. Right, it's potentially happening now. Of course we want to just 60 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.819 have faith and trust the Lord and and of course, knowing his goodness that 61 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.980 maybe, maybe, you'll never experience this. I hope that you guys that 62 00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:24.410 are ministering on the sidewalk, the MOMS that you minister to, I hope 63 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:27.970 that you never experienced this. Yeah, but we do want to prepare you 64 00:04:28.689 --> 00:04:31.569 for if you do experience this. And in the years that we've been involved 65 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:34.370 in this, we've experienced this a couple of different times. So right. 66 00:04:34.850 --> 00:04:39.120 Yeah. Well, also, even if you don't experience some of that, 67 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:44.319 actually does miscarrier, the baby dies, at some point that you're working with 68 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.079 them, you probably will hear it anyway. Yeah, as an excuse and 69 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.040 a lie. And and that is always in the back of my mind. 70 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:56.110 Are they telling the truth? Did they really miscarry or did they go and 71 00:04:56.230 --> 00:04:59.910 have an abortion and they're ashamed? Yeah, to tell me. Either way, 72 00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:04.990 the response would probably be the same because, at least in the way 73 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:09.860 that this article that we're going to put out with this podcast is written, 74 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:15.819 the the intention is for healing and redemption. Yeah, and that would be 75 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:23.649 true whether they took the life of that child themself or whether that child miscarried 76 00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:29.649 through, you know, an actual miscarriage, or died of some other, 77 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.129 some other reason. And as in all these cases, you know, the 78 00:05:33.329 --> 00:05:38.759 very first step is to grieve with the mother. Yeah, to grieve with 79 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:42.120 the other and it going back to what? What if she's lying? Well, 80 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.240 by the fact that you are grieving over the death of that child speaks 81 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:51.750 volumes of what you feel about the sanctity of that child's life. So already 82 00:05:53.389 --> 00:05:58.110 you're paving the way, even if she's lying for the fact that that child 83 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:03.029 had value and worth and that this is sad. Yeah, I want to 84 00:06:03.980 --> 00:06:08.860 just hone in real quick on what you're talking about because, again, this 85 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:12.180 may not even be on you guys radar, right, but there are situations 86 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.980 in which a woman that you're in contact with because she chose life on the 87 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:20.089 sidewalk, you'r mentoring her, following up with her or whatever, and she 88 00:06:20.290 --> 00:06:25.370 says that she's miscarried when, in reality, and we know this from experience, 89 00:06:25.769 --> 00:06:28.810 he actually had the abortion, she went back to the abortion clinic. 90 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:30.970 Or when she reached out to you and said that she chose life, she 91 00:06:31.089 --> 00:06:35.680 actually had already taken the abortion pill and, you know it, was regretting 92 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:41.759 it and trying to like hopefully hoping that that that abortion peop wouldn't take effect, 93 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.800 and then she ends up miscarrying because of that right. So, anyway, 94 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.470 I hope you guys see there's all these kind of intricacies that go on, 95 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:53.029 things that you need to be aware of and prepared for, but at 96 00:06:53.069 --> 00:06:55.750 the end of the day, you don't know what you don't know. So 97 00:06:55.870 --> 00:07:00.430 if she's telling you that she's miscarried, then minister her to her like that 98 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:04.300 that's the case, because that's right. Quite possibly that is the case. 99 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:09.379 Right, right, he's had a miscarriage and so, as the Bible says, 100 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:12.660 rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourned. We need 101 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:16.889 to grieve with that mom. She's lost her baby. Yeah, and one 102 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:23.170 of the first things that I will often say, with the griefain and the 103 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:29.370 expression of deep sorrow for her and for that child, at some point in 104 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:34.959 the beginning conversation I'll often bring up the fact that is it's not on it's 105 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.839 not your fault. Yeah, you, you can have the assurance that, 106 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.629 even if she's taken the abortion pill, but she has then tried the abortion 107 00:07:45.629 --> 00:07:49.189 pill reversal and in the end the child dies, you tried as hard as 108 00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:54.269 you could to save that child's life and it is while you you may be 109 00:07:54.430 --> 00:08:00.019 intended to take that child's life, and that certainly is is not of God, 110 00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:03.540 that intention, but you backed off from that and and you are not 111 00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:07.980 responsible for that child's death. And you you do you won't carry that burden 112 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:13.689 on your conscience and and I'm so grateful that you don't have that burden. 113 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.009 Yeah, that you did. You did what you intended to do. Yeah, 114 00:08:18.689 --> 00:08:24.410 the big question in situations like this is why, right, I mean 115 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.720 that's that's where it always goes to for the mom and again even for us. 116 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.559 Yeah, wow, why? We were there at the abortion center. 117 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.200 Yep, this mother, right before she was about to go in and intentionally 118 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.440 take the life of her baby, chose life. Some of them we've even 119 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.070 had. They surrender their life to Jesus. Right. Right. So, 120 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:48.549 God, why did you allow this? Why did this happen? And I 121 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.909 think we put ourselves in a trap sometimes when we try to answer that question 122 00:08:52.269 --> 00:08:56.139 why, because at the end of the day, we we don't know. 123 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:01.100 We don't know, and sometimes my answer in those situations to myself, as 124 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.500 I'm asking the question why, sometimes my answer is, well, sometimes life 125 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.850 sucks. Yeah, now, I wouldn't say that necessarily to a mom. 126 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:15.769 My answer to that question why would be something to the effect of we don't 127 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:20.529 always know why God allows the things that he allows, right, but we 128 00:09:20.649 --> 00:09:24.960 can trust that God is good. Yeah, God didn't. And here's where 129 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.200 we kind of conflate things that just because God allows something, we necessarily think 130 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.200 that God causes it. When God, God didn't, calls your baby to 131 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.320 die. God didn't cause the miscarriage just as much as if you'd had an 132 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.070 abortion. God didn't cause you to have the abortion. Right, there's there's 133 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:45.909 things that happen and always will. kind of bring it around to the fact 134 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:48.470 that we live in a fallen world. This is a fallen world. Yeah, 135 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:54.259 and if you look in the Bible you'll see sort of consistently, I 136 00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:56.580 would say, miscarriage is not viewed as a good thing. That that doesn't 137 00:09:56.659 --> 00:10:00.820 mean that we need to be carefull the way that we communicate that to the 138 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.019 women. We're not saying because of your sin, because that's where some of 139 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:07.929 them go. Well, I send by going to the abortion center and even 140 00:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.730 though I turned around, I still still sinned by going there. God's not 141 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:15.450 punishing you. This kind of idea, almost like of Karma or something that 142 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:18.370 some, even some believers, put some stock in. That's that's not how 143 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:22.679 God operates, right. God's not punishing you. Yeah, because of something 144 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.720 that you repented of. You you turned away from abortion. Y be punishing 145 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.200 you for that. But again, I think it is a grasping for that 146 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.039 question. Answer to that question why? And I think we do need to 147 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.230 be honest and say, I don't know why. Yeah, and the Bible 148 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:43.029 doesn't necessarily give us an ABCD answer. Hey, does tell us that God 149 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:48.070 is good and miscarriage is bad. Hey, therefore God didn't do it. 150 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:52.860 God wants to come for you in the midst of it, and he can. 151 00:10:52.179 --> 00:10:56.980 And so, thinking through that, then, well, what is the 152 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:01.019 Biblical Comfort? And I think I go to the story of David and Bath 153 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:05.570 Sheba, where they they were in sin, they were in an adulterous relationship 154 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:11.409 in the baby conceived did die. Yeah, and and David had repented of 155 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:18.370 that sin with Beth Sheba and he certainly petitioned for the child's life in prayer, 156 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:24.039 but the child did die. Yeah, and the comfort in that story. 157 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:31.279 First of all, my motivation in every interaction really with everyone, but 158 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.909 especially with with the women we encounter the abortion center, is to bring him 159 00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:41.789 to a saving understanding of Jesus and a submission of a life to Jesus, 160 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:48.139 and this situation, tragic and horrible and awful as it is, can actually 161 00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:56.580 become a way to bring comfort through the Gospel and help them to understand why 162 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.299 they so desperately need a savior. And one of the things I'll bring up 163 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:05.610 in the David and Bathsheba story is where David says when the baby dies, 164 00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:09.129 David says, but now he has died. Why should I fask? Can 165 00:12:09.169 --> 00:12:13.769 I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will 166 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:18.799 not return to to me. And and I point out, he understands that 167 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:26.480 baby's in heaven and he will go to that baby. And that is that 168 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.230 is the great hope for you and comfort for you right now, that you 169 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:35.789 will see that child again if you have submitted your life to the Lord. 170 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:39.830 Yeah, and if you will be going to heaven. And can I talk 171 00:12:39.950 --> 00:12:46.220 with you about how that is possible for all of us? Yeah, so 172 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.019 it becomes a wonderful springboard. I think you have to be careful, sure, 173 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:54.700 at the point at which you introduce that, but most of the women 174 00:12:54.860 --> 00:13:01.490 that I have said that with have found it a comfort and have asked repeatedly, 175 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.570 do you think that baby's really in heaven? We did a PODCAST ABOUT 176 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.250 DO BABIES GO to heaven? Yeah, and I think our conclusion is yes, 177 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:13.919 we we think that biblically we could support that. Yeah, absolutely so, 178 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.440 and I do hear that. I have had actually this has happened to 179 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.799 me many times with many of the women, and so I've had a, 180 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.909 I guess, a lot of experience in dealing with this. Yeah, so 181 00:13:30.149 --> 00:13:35.230 offering comfort with Biblical truth is always, always valuable. And Yeah, and 182 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.870 I mean word, the word of God is alive and active and sharper than 183 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.460 he two edged sword. It can cut through some of the confusion, it 184 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:48.620 can cut through some of the why and the lack of the answer to why 185 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:52.460 and just bring again the knowledge of who God is. And that really is 186 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.009 the central focus of the Bible, even who God is. Who is this 187 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:03.250 God that in the beginning made the heavens and the earth? Who is this 188 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.049 God? He is a good God and he offers redemption. We yes, 189 00:14:07.129 --> 00:14:11.679 we live in a fallen world and things like miscarriage our result of a fallen 190 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.080 world. But God, this God of the Bible, actually came and intervened 191 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.000 to save this lost and dying world, to bring redemption M and then, 192 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.710 of course, that redemption comes through the Cross and through the resurrection and we 193 00:14:28.789 --> 00:14:31.230 have this eternal hope. And that's what we're getting into when we're talking about 194 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:39.779 the Gospel. Right, right, and often times in these discussions you'll hear 195 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.700 why, why do God do this? But the other thing that I think 196 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:52.460 you hear a lot is self incrimination, sure anger at self and and great 197 00:14:52.700 --> 00:15:00.370 sorrow about what they had intended to do. And and so it. I 198 00:15:00.690 --> 00:15:07.080 think again, it's a beautiful opportunity to express the the truth of our sinful 199 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.360 nature and that there is a remedy for sin. Yeah, and the Truth 200 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.519 and hope of the Gospel painting the picture of one day there will be a 201 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.120 place where that all ends, all the sorrow ends, the tears will and 202 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.909 you will be reunited with that child and you will be back in a right 203 00:15:26.029 --> 00:15:31.149 relationship with God. And this is how you can find that. Yeah, 204 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:33.629 Yep. I think one of the things that we do, and this is 205 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.580 maybe some advice, not just for these situations but just in general, when 206 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.059 you're dealing with people that are grieving, they're going through a tough time and 207 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:48.860 they've just had a really tough encounter with life, yeah, and a fallen 208 00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:54.889 world. Sometimes we want to in kind of answer the question why M and 209 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:58.250 we want to try to come up with some reason, try to connect the 210 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:03.450 dots for people when in reality, going back to that first scripture, rejoice 211 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:07.279 with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourned. Sometimes we just need 212 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.559 to keep our mouth shut. And, yeah, listen, we don't always 213 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.399 have to. We don't know the answer. So why would we even try 214 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.360 to give the answer to why this happened? Right, right, so we 215 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.750 don't know the answer. Let's just keep our mouth shut, let's just comfort, 216 00:16:19.830 --> 00:16:23.149 let's just, yeah, you know, hold them. Yeah, give 217 00:16:23.190 --> 00:16:26.549 him a hug, call them, encourage them, you know, Sam a 218 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:32.070 note, send them flowers or something like that. Yeah, and not try 219 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:33.820 to answer a question that we don't know the answer to, but again, 220 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:38.419 grieve with him, enter into their their grief and to their sorrow, and 221 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:42.019 then, of course, pray for them. Yeah, pray over them, 222 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:45.299 pray with them. When you're on the phone, can I pray for you 223 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.570 real quick, you know, and just cover that whole situation in prayer. 224 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:55.850 God can move in these terrible situations. God can bring a mother who maybe 225 00:16:55.850 --> 00:17:00.210 chose life for her baby but didn't surrender her life to Jesus right, and 226 00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:04.480 then this miscarriage happens. God can really move that situation ultimately to bring that 227 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.440 woman to the knowledge of him as savior, kind of like what you talked 228 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.720 about sharing that yes, your baby is with the Lord, you can also 229 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.509 be with the Lord if you'll surrender your life to him. So, yeah, 230 00:17:15.630 --> 00:17:21.470 God it. God is so awesome and his willingness to redeem any situation 231 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:23.589 that will put in his hands. But we have to be intentional, as 232 00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:27.549 believers in Jesus, to really put the situation in his hands and not try 233 00:17:27.589 --> 00:17:30.859 to take ownership of it ourselves. Yeah, like somehow again we have to 234 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:36.740 answer all of the big questions of why and and all of that stright sometimes 235 00:17:36.859 --> 00:17:41.180 in the discussion. We've often talked about that, asking questions as a good 236 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:47.289 counseling technique and as these people are struggling oftentimes in the discussion, in especially 237 00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:51.730 when they're in that self and recrimination mode, which usually is the case, 238 00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:55.930 they usually are blaming themselves for a period of time. Sometimes they will, 239 00:17:56.329 --> 00:18:02.119 in fact often they will, get to the what brought them there in the 240 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.680 first place. Yeah, and almost always had some sort of sexual sin. 241 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.680 Yeah, and if they bring that up, I actually usually don't shy away 242 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:18.670 from addressing that, hopefully gently and kindly and with that same, you know, 243 00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:23.950 desire to mourn as they mourn. But I don't want to pass up 244 00:18:23.990 --> 00:18:32.220 an opportunity for life changing revelation. Yeah, and if they're beginning to address 245 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.980 and think what was it? Something that I did not directly that killed the 246 00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:41.849 child, but is there's things leading up to me of her showing up there 247 00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:47.930 in the first place and then really wrestling with the sin of that and again 248 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:52.250 with the hope of restoration. Yeah, and leading into a Gospel discussion. 249 00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.319 So you, I think I really hear what you're saying and totally agree with 250 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.839 it. Sometimes the best course of action truly is just hug them and and 251 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:08.720 and express sorrow mourn with them. Yeah, but don't close your mind to 252 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.029 the opportunity that God might be opening doors you are supposed to step through, 253 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:21.069 absolutely in and that can actually bring ultimately healing, because dealing there are things 254 00:19:21.390 --> 00:19:25.140 that led them to that abortion center in the first place, and most of 255 00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:29.940 the time those are sinful. Yeah, and so this might be the vehicle 256 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:34.140 by which God is allowing that to be explored. Yeah, yeah, and 257 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:38.250 that's why, with all of these situations, and I guess I think probably 258 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:42.970 every time we've dealt with these really deep situations like this and just in general, 259 00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:45.650 we've encourage you guys like you need to be walking with the Lord, 260 00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:52.730 because God can give you wisdom in the midst of one of these very grievous 261 00:19:52.849 --> 00:19:56.880 conversations. Yeah, the mother who's lost her baby by miscarriage. Yeah, 262 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.559 but he can open the door and give you some wisdom to kind of speak 263 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.480 into. Like you're talking about confront sin, right, yeah, because we 264 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:08.269 need to confront sin if we're ever going to listen, if redemption is ever 265 00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.430 going to come, there has to be repentance, right, and an acknowledgment 266 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.869 of sin. And you can do it very graciously. You can navigate through 267 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:22.740 this like, I mean amazingly if you're led by the Holy Spirit. But 268 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.980 of course it can go completely arrive if you're not careful. So I think 269 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:27.500 we do need to do the best we can to read the situation, to 270 00:20:27.579 --> 00:20:34.970 read the conversation with that mother, to speak encouragement life as much as as 271 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:38.730 much as possible. Yeah, but then, like you said, to confront 272 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:42.609 sin, the sin that led them to the abortion center as that door opens, 273 00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:47.289 and to not shy away and to not be afraid of it. Right, 274 00:20:47.329 --> 00:20:51.960 right, if it and yeah, I think he is really be relying 275 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:57.319 on the Holy Spirit, be in the word and be prepared for this sort 276 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.200 of situation, because it will happen. But being gentle and and careful, 277 00:21:03.349 --> 00:21:07.190 because you could, you could do a lot of harm. One I remember 278 00:21:07.309 --> 00:21:14.029 one lady who called me from the ear. That's how I knew she wasn't 279 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:15.829 lying. She said, I'm in the ear right now. I think I 280 00:21:17.029 --> 00:21:22.059 miss caring. Stayed in touch with me and then when she was discharged hours 281 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:25.900 later, she was indeed miscarrying and she came right to the sidewalk to me 282 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:30.819 and and got out of her car and just sobbing her eyes out. I 283 00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:33.890 lost the baby. All these things we've talked about. Why? Why? 284 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:38.009 Why? I was doing everything, I wanted to do everything right now. 285 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:45.490 Why would got allow this? So me and the other counselor that had worked 286 00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:48.960 with her, we comforted her as best we could. She she went home 287 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.559 and that counselor and I actually got together. I think it was the other 288 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.400 councilor's ideas, such a good idea. We got her a memorial bracelet. 289 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.990 They make these things on the Internet with with little feed little hands, I 290 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:04.990 think, even if you've named the child, but whatever, they're made for 291 00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:11.549 people who have miscarried and we got her that bracelet and we presented it to 292 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:15.660 her, I don't know, very shortly thereafter came right away. I think 293 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:23.140 we got it from Amazon, and she was very touched. But also a 294 00:22:23.299 --> 00:22:27.099 few months later, she maybe it was even a year later, she was 295 00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:32.970 pregnant again and she came back to the abortion center, but not for an 296 00:22:32.970 --> 00:22:37.569 abortion, to say I will not even consider abortion with this child. And 297 00:22:37.769 --> 00:22:44.130 she trusted us and she knew that we cared and had her best interest in 298 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:48.480 heart because of that little act of kindness. Yeah, and so you know, 299 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.839 it was paving the way for I can't remember if she was still in 300 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:57.200 sin or if she was married at that point or what. I honestly don't 301 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:03.829 remember, but at least abortion was off the table with with that next child. 302 00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:10.869 So God can use and will use terrible things for his purposes and and 303 00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:15.059 for good, and he did in that situation. Yeah. So, you 304 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.259 know, bringing the hope of God into the situation is kind of the bottom 305 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:22.940 line in absolutely when, whenever you can, and he will always make a 306 00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:26.690 way for you to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, and 307 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:30.809 that is the goal, right. The goal was not, again, just 308 00:23:30.009 --> 00:23:36.250 answer the question why, because we don't know why. The goal is to 309 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:40.450 bring the hope of the Gospel, the hope of who God is into that 310 00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:47.559 situation. We are not the savior of this mom right, we're not going 311 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.000 to fix her situation, we're not going to answer all her questions. M 312 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.069 The best we can do is point her to the God who is her savior. 313 00:23:56.589 --> 00:24:00.069 She'll put her trust in him, who does have the answers, to 314 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.589 point her to a relationship. And we all know that in our lives there 315 00:24:03.630 --> 00:24:07.349 are things that we encounter. Some of you maybe that are listening, you're 316 00:24:07.430 --> 00:24:10.819 on the sidewalk and you've had miscarriages, and we and our family had a 317 00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:15.500 miscarriage and it was a very, very difficult situation to deal with. Yeah, 318 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.980 and we ask the questions why. But what do we do? We 319 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:22.619 learn to cling to Jesus more closely. Right, and if we can teach 320 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:27.569 these women, we can point them, disciple them, mentor them into clinging 321 00:24:27.730 --> 00:24:32.410 tightly to Jesus, then we've done what we're called to do. Yeah, 322 00:24:32.529 --> 00:24:36.170 we're not called to answer all the questions and we're not called to calm all 323 00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:41.160 the storms. We're not called to be the redeemer ourselves, right, but 324 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.000 to point them to the one who is the redeemer, the Lord Jesus. 325 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.839 Now, yeah, there are things out there. I'm nothing really is popping 326 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.720 up in my mind right now as far as literature and things like that, 327 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.670 but there are certainly websites and their ministries. They're involved in healing after miscarriages 328 00:24:56.710 --> 00:25:00.910 and things like that. Maybe if we can dig for some of those resources. 329 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.789 I know of some, but I just can't think of the particular names 330 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:06.710 on top of my head. Yeah, we'll try to put those in the 331 00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:11.500 show notes on the podcast. Certainly you guys can can google that and find 332 00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:14.700 some ministries you can point these women to that maybe can get more in depth. 333 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.099 I'm sure there's some healing Bible studies and things that are out there right 334 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:22.130 they can help, but at the end of the day, again, it's 335 00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:26.250 pointing them to the redeemer, to the Savior, to the Lord Jesus, 336 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:32.690 and discipling them mentoring them in that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I 337 00:25:32.890 --> 00:25:36.519 know when I was a new counselor and and I faced this. I've faced 338 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.680 this, I guess, more times than maybe most people, but I remember 339 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:45.839 feeling well, these MOMS are properly relieved. They were coming to kill their 340 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.910 baby. I'll bet they're relieved that they are miscarrying. But that is not 341 00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:56.430 the case. They in fact may feel more grief. Yeah, because they 342 00:25:56.470 --> 00:26:00.990 were so close to take in that chiuse life themselves and they have now, 343 00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:07.619 you know, doubled down in their maternal instincts following that, and it it 344 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:11.380 so, it it's in many ways, you would treat them as you would 345 00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:17.579 treat anyone who it's struggling with having miscarried a baby. Yeah, yeah, 346 00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:23.329 absolutely. And another thing that I would try to get them to is get 347 00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:29.210 them to get plugged into a local church. Give them to you, because 348 00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:32.529 they need a body of believers. Invite them to your church. If you're 349 00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:37.000 able to do that, maybe maybe they have a mentor, if you're part 350 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.880 of love life and you got them connected to a mentor, that mentor would 351 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.000 invite them. I mean just the fact that they are no longer going to 352 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.509 have a baby and we aren't going to do a baby shower and that sort 353 00:26:47.549 --> 00:26:51.630 of thing doesn't mean we drop them as a mentor. Right. We want 354 00:26:51.670 --> 00:26:55.509 to invite them to church when to surround them the love of the local church, 355 00:26:56.269 --> 00:26:59.990 and so just being intentional about that. Be Intentional because I know for 356 00:27:00.109 --> 00:27:03.299 us, when we encounter situations specially, and I think that's why this podcast 357 00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:07.619 is important especially situation that we didn't really account for. We don't know how 358 00:27:07.660 --> 00:27:11.460 to respond and we just kind of shut down ourselves. Right, I don't 359 00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:14.380 how to respond to this woman. I don't know how. I mean, 360 00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:15.329 I thought she was going to be having a baby. I thought we were 361 00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:18.170 going to do a baby shower. We yeah, yeah, you're excited about 362 00:27:18.210 --> 00:27:22.410 this, and now this is not going to happen. I'm an awkward situation. 363 00:27:22.569 --> 00:27:26.049 I don't know how to answer all the questions. Be Intentional about reaching 364 00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:29.210 out. Yeah, be intentional about inviting her to church, surrounding her. 365 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.559 The conversations don't always have to be around the miscarriage. It don't always have 366 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.440 to be around the relationship and light of her having a baby, like minister 367 00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:42.960 to her as a woman who needs the Lord, who needs encouragement and all 368 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.829 of that stuff. Invite her to Bible Studies and Church events and that sort 369 00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.509 of thing, and just surround her, because one of the things that can 370 00:27:49.509 --> 00:27:53.990 happen in these situations is people can isolate themselves. Hey, and that's really 371 00:27:55.069 --> 00:27:59.859 where the devil gets in and brings all this confusion in chaos. Yeah, 372 00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:03.819 so, yes, I mean intentional about inviting them and reaching out to them 373 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:07.299 and not again, not trying to answer all their questions while but just bringing 374 00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:10.819 them to the saviors important. Yeah, I think a few weeks ago we 375 00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:15.450 talked about the mom of twins who the twins came prematurely and they both died. 376 00:28:15.009 --> 00:28:19.769 And what happened to her in the immediate aftermath is the danger. She 377 00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:27.759 spiraled really down. Yeah, really down, fullblown rebellion and sorrow, rebellion 378 00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:33.200 from God, questioning God's sorrow and despair, and did some really bad things 379 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:40.240 and and came out of it that. She did stay in touch with us, 380 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:44.630 fortunately, and so there was contact with her, pointing her back to 381 00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:48.430 God pretty continually and about two years later had really come full circle. Her 382 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:53.470 life was restored, she's marriage is a new baby now and now she looks 383 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.900 back at that time period and the amazing thing is in the midst of that 384 00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:03.779 terrible situation she actually sees the hand of God and she sees where he rescued 385 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:10.170 her and where he really had lovingly never let go of her. She had 386 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:15.250 run from him. Yeah, so remembering that, that, that is what 387 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:21.170 every person that we interact with needs, is is to someone to be there 388 00:29:21.890 --> 00:29:26.240 if they spiral down or not. Any way, anyway about it, someone 389 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.079 to be there constantly bringing them back to the truth of who God is and 390 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.319 that he does love them, despite sometimes when it doesn't feel like it. 391 00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.670 Yeah, Amen, Amen. Well, we hope this was a blessing you, 392 00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:41.549 guys. We hope that you were. I mean, this is not 393 00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:47.509 necessarily the most encouraging subject, but certainly to be a are of something that 394 00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:51.950 you might encounter can be an encouragement. Have Your Heart in your mind prepared 395 00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:56.299 for that and if you do encounter with these situations, hopefully you've been equipped 396 00:29:56.339 --> 00:30:00.339 to deal with that situation. We'd certainly be more than willing to answer any 397 00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.180 questions that you have along the lines of this podcast episode or other episodes that 398 00:30:03.220 --> 00:30:06.619 we've done. You could reach out to us. Reach out to me, 399 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.289 Daniel Love Life Dot Org. You reach out to Vicky, Vicky at Love 400 00:30:10.369 --> 00:30:15.809 Life Dot Org. If you have suggestions of future episodes for PODCASTS, we'd 401 00:30:15.849 --> 00:30:18.049 love to hear what those suggestions are. We love to cover those subjects if 402 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.519 we're able, and so please reach out to us. Please, ruse, 403 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.240 leave us a review if you're willing to do that would be a blessing to 404 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:34.119 us. But until next time, God bless God, bless give me our 405 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:47.630 love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will 406 00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:56.259 cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you