A Mom Who Chooses Life Miscarries, What Do You Do?

0:00 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Sin Me, Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Center pre life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart, use me. Welcome to the Gospel Centered Prolife podcast. We appreciate you, guys, joining us.

0:41 We're going to cover a subject today, as we kind of just jump right into the topic here, that if you're at in an abortion center for any length of time, you know, we've made the promise that God will use you to say babies. You're going to see moms choose life and you're going to have interactions with moms. You're likely going to have situations where you're following up with a mom that chose life and even mentoring her in some capacity. Or, you know, maybe you're a mentor you're going to be a mentor yourself, maybe not necessarily, even on the sidewalk, you're mentoring a mom that chose life within your church or whatever. This is a situation that you're likely to encounter at some point. You probably will if you're out there any length of time. Yeah, and it's a situation where you've had a mom that has chosen life but then she has a miscarriage. Yeah, like, how do you handle that? How do you how do you, how do you process that? MMM, personally for yourself, how do you minister to her? Right, you know, I'll just cheer. Some years back there was a situation, this was not a miscarriage. I think this is along the same lines of this, where we had a mom that chose life and a father and we were ministering to them. I mean this is actually probably been ten years or more, a ghost for even new you, Vicky, okay, and we ministered this couple, built a relationship with this couple.

2:00 She ended up having her baby and then a couple of months later the baby died from SIDS. Wow, had no clue what even happened. Right came into the room and the baby was was dead. Yeah, it's like, how do you process that? Yeah, yeah, how do you minister to them effectively? Heavy subject, guys, it is, but we're going to talk through some of our experiences. And Yeah, and really from a Biblical, of course, Gospel centered perspective. Yeah, you can how you can navigate through this effectively? Right, yeah, it's happened to me many times. It happened to one of our national missionaries very recently and she texted me and said, I don't know what to say, I don't know what to say to her. Can Can you guide me? So that's what kind of sparked this is that, as in many of these really rough situations, sometimes she just just really there are no words. Yeah, but I think there are principles that that we can pass along so that you're prepared, yeah, for for if that happens, inevitably, whether they voiced it or not, they have to be questioning God. Yeah, they have to be there.

3:07 Well, I mean I think let's acknowledge to that. We ourselves. We're questioning, yeah, God now, Ye, not questioning his goodness. Yeah, maybe, I certainly think it's on it. It's good to get honest before God. Yeah, read the Psalms and you'll see David getting very honest before God. And so in some sense that gives us an allowance just to be honest to God, like where are you in the situation? Yeah, and so I think it's important, of course, for us to get honest before the Lord, get honest with our feelings so that we can minister ourselves from a place of experience and relationship to the Lord, so that we can bring these women into a relationship with the Lord. I will say this even before we get into the meat of this. Some of you guys that are brand new to this ministry, this wasn't even on your radar. Is something that could happen, right, and I think just US bringing this conversation up is going to be helpful and, yeah, making you aware that this is something that can happen. Yeah, to have it, as a friend of mine says, on your preyed are like to be praying, preparing your heart. Right, it's potentially happening now. Of course we want to just have faith and trust the Lord and and of course, knowing his goodness that maybe, maybe, you'll never experience this. I hope that you guys that are ministering on the sidewalk, the MOMS that you minister to, I hope that you never experienced this. Yeah, but we do want to prepare you for if you do experience this. And in the years that we've been involved in this, we've experienced this a couple of different times. So right.

4:34 Yeah. Well, also, even if you don't experience some of that, actually does miscarrier, the baby dies, at some point that you're working with them, you probably will hear it anyway. Yeah, as an excuse and a lie. And and that is always in the back of my mind. Are they telling the truth? Did they really miscarry or did they go and have an abortion and they're ashamed? Yeah, to tell me. Either way, the response would probably be the same because, at least in the way that this article that we're going to put out with this podcast is written, the the intention is for healing and redemption. Yeah, and that would be true whether they took the life of that child themself or whether that child miscarried through, you know, an actual miscarriage, or died of some other, some other reason. And as in all these cases, you know, the very first step is to grieve with the mother. Yeah, to grieve with the other and it going back to what? What if she's lying? Well, by the fact that you are grieving over the death of that child speaks volumes of what you feel about the sanctity of that child's life. So already you're paving the way, even if she's lying for the fact that that child had value and worth and that this is sad. Yeah, I want to just hone in real quick on what you're talking about because, again, this

6:09 may not even be on you guys radar, right, but there are situations in which a woman that you're in contact with because she chose life on the sidewalk, you'r mentoring her, following up with her or whatever, and she says that she's miscarried when, in reality, and we know this from experience, he actually had the abortion, she went back to the abortion clinic. Or when she reached out to you and said that she chose life, she actually had already taken the abortion pill and, you know it, was regretting it and trying to like hopefully hoping that that that abortion peop wouldn't take effect, and then she ends up miscarrying because of that right. So, anyway, I hope you guys see there's all these kind of intricacies that go on, things that you need to be aware of and prepared for, but at the end of the day, you don't know what you don't know. So if she's telling you that she's miscarried, then minister her to her like that that's the case, because that's right. Quite possibly that is the case.

7:04 Right, right, he's had a miscarriage and so, as the Bible says, rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourned. We need to grieve with that mom. She's lost her baby. Yeah, and one of the first things that I will often say, with the griefain and the expression of deep sorrow for her and for that child, at some point in the beginning conversation I'll often bring up the fact that is it's not on it's not your fault. Yeah, you, you can have the assurance that, even if she's taken the abortion pill, but she has then tried the abortion pill reversal and in the end the child dies, you tried as hard as you could to save that child's life and it is while you you may be intended to take that child's life, and that certainly is is not of God, that intention, but you backed off from that and and you are not responsible for that child's death. And you you do you won't carry that burden on your conscience and and I'm so grateful that you don't have that burden.

8:13 Yeah, that you did. You did what you intended to do. Yeah, the big question in situations like this is why, right, I mean that's that's where it always goes to for the mom and again even for us. Yeah, wow, why? We were there at the abortion center. Yep, this mother, right before she was about to go in and intentionally take the life of her baby, chose life. Some of them we've even had. They surrender their life to Jesus. Right. Right. So, God, why did you allow this? Why did this happen? And I think we put ourselves in a trap sometimes when we try to answer that question why, because at the end of the day, we we don't know.

8:56 We don't know, and sometimes my answer in those situations to myself, as I'm asking the question why, sometimes my answer is, well, sometimes life sucks. Yeah, now, I wouldn't say that necessarily to a mom. My answer to that question why would be something to the effect of we don't always know why God allows the things that he allows, right, but we can trust that God is good. Yeah, God didn't. And here's where we kind of conflate things that just because God allows something, we necessarily think that God causes it. When God, God didn't, calls your baby to die. God didn't cause the miscarriage just as much as if you'd had an abortion. God didn't cause you to have the abortion. Right, there's there's things that happen and always will. kind of bring it around to the fact that we live in a fallen world. This is a fallen world. Yeah, and if you look in the Bible you'll see sort of consistently, I would say, miscarriage is not viewed as a good thing. That that doesn't mean that we need to be carefull the way that we communicate that to the women. We're not saying because of your sin, because that's where some of them go. Well, I send by going to the abortion center and even though I turned around, I still still sinned by going there. God's not punishing you. This kind of idea, almost like of Karma or something that some, even some believers, put some stock in. That's that's not how God operates, right. God's not punishing you. Yeah, because of something that you repented of. You you turned away from abortion. Y be punishing

10:26 you for that. But again, I think it is a grasping for that question. Answer to that question why? And I think we do need to be honest and say, I don't know why. Yeah, and the Bible doesn't necessarily give us an ABCD answer. Hey, does tell us that God is good and miscarriage is bad. Hey, therefore God didn't do it. God wants to come for you in the midst of it, and he can. And so, thinking through that, then, well, what is the Biblical Comfort? And I think I go to the story of David and Bath Sheba, where they they were in sin, they were in an adulterous relationship in the baby conceived did die. Yeah, and and David had repented of that sin with Beth Sheba and he certainly petitioned for the child's life in prayer, but the child did die. Yeah, and the comfort in that story.

11:24 First of all, my motivation in every interaction really with everyone, but especially with with the women we encounter the abortion center, is to bring him to a saving understanding of Jesus and a submission of a life to Jesus, and this situation, tragic and horrible and awful as it is, can actually become a way to bring comfort through the Gospel and help them to understand why they so desperately need a savior. And one of the things I'll bring up in the David and Bathsheba story is where David says when the baby dies, David says, but now he has died. Why should I fask? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to to me. And and I point out, he understands that baby's in heaven and he will go to that baby. And that is that is the great hope for you and comfort for you right now, that you will see that child again if you have submitted your life to the Lord.

12:35 Yeah, and if you will be going to heaven. And can I talk with you about how that is possible for all of us? Yeah, so it becomes a wonderful springboard. I think you have to be careful, sure, at the point at which you introduce that, but most of the women that I have said that with have found it a comfort and have asked repeatedly, do you think that baby's really in heaven? We did a PODCAST ABOUT DO BABIES GO to heaven? Yeah, and I think our conclusion is yes, we we think that biblically we could support that. Yeah, absolutely so, and I do hear that. I have had actually this has happened to me many times with many of the women, and so I've had a, I guess, a lot of experience in dealing with this. Yeah, so offering comfort with Biblical truth is always, always valuable. And Yeah, and I mean word, the word of God is alive and active and sharper than he two edged sword. It can cut through some of the confusion, it can cut through some of the why and the lack of the answer to why and just bring again the knowledge of who God is. And that really is the central focus of the Bible, even who God is. Who is this God that in the beginning made the heavens and the earth? Who is this God? He is a good God and he offers redemption. We yes,

14:07 we live in a fallen world and things like miscarriage our result of a fallen world. But God, this God of the Bible, actually came and intervened to save this lost and dying world, to bring redemption M and then, of course, that redemption comes through the Cross and through the resurrection and we have this eternal hope. And that's what we're getting into when we're talking about the Gospel. Right, right, and often times in these discussions you'll hear why, why do God do this? But the other thing that I think you hear a lot is self incrimination, sure anger at self and and great sorrow about what they had intended to do. And and so it. I think again, it's a beautiful opportunity to express the the truth of our sinful nature and that there is a remedy for sin. Yeah, and the Truth and hope of the Gospel painting the picture of one day there will be a place where that all ends, all the sorrow ends, the tears will and you will be reunited with that child and you will be back in a right relationship with God. And this is how you can find that. Yeah, Yep. I think one of the things that we do, and this is maybe some advice, not just for these situations but just in general, when

15:39 you're dealing with people that are grieving, they're going through a tough time and they've just had a really tough encounter with life, yeah, and a fallen world. Sometimes we want to in kind of answer the question why M and we want to try to come up with some reason, try to connect the dots for people when in reality, going back to that first scripture, rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourned. Sometimes we just need to keep our mouth shut. And, yeah, listen, we don't always have to. We don't know the answer. So why would we even try to give the answer to why this happened? Right, right, so we don't know the answer. Let's just keep our mouth shut, let's just comfort, let's just, yeah, you know, hold them. Yeah, give him a hug, call them, encourage them, you know, Sam a note, send them flowers or something like that. Yeah, and not try to answer a question that we don't know the answer to, but again, grieve with him, enter into their their grief and to their sorrow, and then, of course, pray for them. Yeah, pray over them, pray with them. When you're on the phone, can I pray for you real quick, you know, and just cover that whole situation in prayer.

16:51 God can move in these terrible situations. God can bring a mother who maybe chose life for her baby but didn't surrender her life to Jesus right, and then this miscarriage happens. God can really move that situation ultimately to bring that woman to the knowledge of him as savior, kind of like what you talked about sharing that yes, your baby is with the Lord, you can also be with the Lord if you'll surrender your life to him. So, yeah, God it. God is so awesome and his willingness to redeem any situation that will put in his hands. But we have to be intentional, as believers in Jesus, to really put the situation in his hands and not try to take ownership of it ourselves. Yeah, like somehow again we have to answer all of the big questions of why and and all of that stright sometimes in the discussion. We've often talked about that, asking questions as a good counseling technique and as these people are struggling oftentimes in the discussion, in especially when they're in that self and recrimination mode, which usually is the case, they usually are blaming themselves for a period of time. Sometimes they will, in fact often they will, get to the what brought them there in the first place. Yeah, and almost always had some sort of sexual sin.

18:06 Yeah, and if they bring that up, I actually usually don't shy away from addressing that, hopefully gently and kindly and with that same, you know, desire to mourn as they mourn. But I don't want to pass up an opportunity for life changing revelation. Yeah, and if they're beginning to address and think what was it? Something that I did not directly that killed the child, but is there's things leading up to me of her showing up there in the first place and then really wrestling with the sin of that and again with the hope of restoration. Yeah, and leading into a Gospel discussion.

18:52 So you, I think I really hear what you're saying and totally agree with it. Sometimes the best course of action truly is just hug them and and and express sorrow mourn with them. Yeah, but don't close your mind to the opportunity that God might be opening doors you are supposed to step through, absolutely in and that can actually bring ultimately healing, because dealing there are things that led them to that abortion center in the first place, and most of the time those are sinful. Yeah, and so this might be the vehicle by which God is allowing that to be explored. Yeah, yeah, and that's why, with all of these situations, and I guess I think probably every time we've dealt with these really deep situations like this and just in general, we've encourage you guys like you need to be walking with the Lord, because God can give you wisdom in the midst of one of these very grievous conversations. Yeah, the mother who's lost her baby by miscarriage. Yeah, but he can open the door and give you some wisdom to kind of speak into. Like you're talking about confront sin, right, yeah, because we need to confront sin if we're ever going to listen, if redemption is ever going to come, there has to be repentance, right, and an acknowledgment of sin. And you can do it very graciously. You can navigate through this like, I mean amazingly if you're led by the Holy Spirit. But

20:22 of course it can go completely arrive if you're not careful. So I think we do need to do the best we can to read the situation, to read the conversation with that mother, to speak encouragement life as much as as much as possible. Yeah, but then, like you said, to confront sin, the sin that led them to the abortion center as that door opens, and to not shy away and to not be afraid of it. Right, right, if it and yeah, I think he is really be relying on the Holy Spirit, be in the word and be prepared for this sort of situation, because it will happen. But being gentle and and careful, because you could, you could do a lot of harm. One I remember one lady who called me from the ear. That's how I knew she wasn't lying. She said, I'm in the ear right now. I think I miss caring. Stayed in touch with me and then when she was discharged hours later, she was indeed miscarrying and she came right to the sidewalk to me and and got out of her car and just sobbing her eyes out. I lost the baby. All these things we've talked about. Why? Why?

21:33 Why? I was doing everything, I wanted to do everything right now. Why would got allow this? So me and the other counselor that had worked with her, we comforted her as best we could. She she went home and that counselor and I actually got together. I think it was the other councilor's ideas, such a good idea. We got her a memorial bracelet. They make these things on the Internet with with little feed little hands, I think, even if you've named the child, but whatever, they're made for people who have miscarried and we got her that bracelet and we presented it to her, I don't know, very shortly thereafter came right away. I think we got it from Amazon, and she was very touched. But also a few months later, she maybe it was even a year later, she was pregnant again and she came back to the abortion center, but not for an abortion, to say I will not even consider abortion with this child. And she trusted us and she knew that we cared and had her best interest in heart because of that little act of kindness. Yeah, and so you know, it was paving the way for I can't remember if she was still in sin or if she was married at that point or what. I honestly don't remember, but at least abortion was off the table with with that next child.

23:03 So God can use and will use terrible things for his purposes and and for good, and he did in that situation. Yeah. So, you know, bringing the hope of God into the situation is kind of the bottom line in absolutely when, whenever you can, and he will always make a way for you to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, and that is the goal, right. The goal was not, again, just answer the question why, because we don't know why. The goal is to bring the hope of the Gospel, the hope of who God is into that situation. We are not the savior of this mom right, we're not going to fix her situation, we're not going to answer all her questions. M The best we can do is point her to the God who is her savior.

23:56 She'll put her trust in him, who does have the answers, to point her to a relationship. And we all know that in our lives there are things that we encounter. Some of you maybe that are listening, you're on the sidewalk and you've had miscarriages, and we and our family had a miscarriage and it was a very, very difficult situation to deal with. Yeah, and we ask the questions why. But what do we do? We learn to cling to Jesus more closely. Right, and if we can teach these women, we can point them, disciple them, mentor them into clinging tightly to Jesus, then we've done what we're called to do. Yeah, we're not called to answer all the questions and we're not called to calm all the storms. We're not called to be the redeemer ourselves, right, but to point them to the one who is the redeemer, the Lord Jesus.

24:45 Now, yeah, there are things out there. I'm nothing really is popping up in my mind right now as far as literature and things like that, but there are certainly websites and their ministries. They're involved in healing after miscarriages and things like that. Maybe if we can dig for some of those resources. I know of some, but I just can't think of the particular names on top of my head. Yeah, we'll try to put those in the show notes on the podcast. Certainly you guys can can google that and find some ministries you can point these women to that maybe can get more in depth. I'm sure there's some healing Bible studies and things that are out there right they can help, but at the end of the day, again, it's pointing them to the redeemer, to the Savior, to the Lord Jesus, and discipling them mentoring them in that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I know when I was a new counselor and and I faced this. I've faced this, I guess, more times than maybe most people, but I remember feeling well, these MOMS are properly relieved. They were coming to kill their baby. I'll bet they're relieved that they are miscarrying. But that is not the case. They in fact may feel more grief. Yeah, because they were so close to take in that chiuse life themselves and they have now, you know, doubled down in their maternal instincts following that, and it it so, it it's in many ways, you would treat them as you would treat anyone who it's struggling with having miscarried a baby. Yeah, yeah,

26:17 absolutely. And another thing that I would try to get them to is get them to get plugged into a local church. Give them to you, because they need a body of believers. Invite them to your church. If you're able to do that, maybe maybe they have a mentor, if you're part of love life and you got them connected to a mentor, that mentor would invite them. I mean just the fact that they are no longer going to have a baby and we aren't going to do a baby shower and that sort of thing doesn't mean we drop them as a mentor. Right. We want to invite them to church when to surround them the love of the local church, and so just being intentional about that. Be Intentional because I know for us, when we encounter situations specially, and I think that's why this podcast is important especially situation that we didn't really account for. We don't know how to respond and we just kind of shut down ourselves. Right, I don't how to respond to this woman. I don't know how. I mean, I thought she was going to be having a baby. I thought we were going to do a baby shower. We yeah, yeah, you're excited about this, and now this is not going to happen. I'm an awkward situation.

27:22 I don't know how to answer all the questions. Be Intentional about reaching out. Yeah, be intentional about inviting her to church, surrounding her. The conversations don't always have to be around the miscarriage. It don't always have to be around the relationship and light of her having a baby, like minister to her as a woman who needs the Lord, who needs encouragement and all of that stuff. Invite her to Bible Studies and Church events and that sort of thing, and just surround her, because one of the things that can happen in these situations is people can isolate themselves. Hey, and that's really where the devil gets in and brings all this confusion in chaos. Yeah, so, yes, I mean intentional about inviting them and reaching out to them and not again, not trying to answer all their questions while but just bringing them to the saviors important. Yeah, I think a few weeks ago we talked about the mom of twins who the twins came prematurely and they both died.

28:15 And what happened to her in the immediate aftermath is the danger. She spiraled really down. Yeah, really down, fullblown rebellion and sorrow, rebellion from God, questioning God's sorrow and despair, and did some really bad things and and came out of it that. She did stay in touch with us, fortunately, and so there was contact with her, pointing her back to God pretty continually and about two years later had really come full circle. Her life was restored, she's marriage is a new baby now and now she looks back at that time period and the amazing thing is in the midst of that terrible situation she actually sees the hand of God and she sees where he rescued her and where he really had lovingly never let go of her. She had run from him. Yeah, so remembering that, that, that is what every person that we interact with needs, is is to someone to be there if they spiral down or not. Any way, anyway about it, someone to be there constantly bringing them back to the truth of who God is and that he does love them, despite sometimes when it doesn't feel like it.

29:34 Yeah, Amen, Amen. Well, we hope this was a blessing you, guys. We hope that you were. I mean, this is not necessarily the most encouraging subject, but certainly to be a are of something that you might encounter can be an encouragement. Have Your Heart in your mind prepared for that and if you do encounter with these situations, hopefully you've been equipped to deal with that situation. We'd certainly be more than willing to answer any questions that you have along the lines of this podcast episode or other episodes that we've done. You could reach out to us. Reach out to me, Daniel Love Life Dot Org. You reach out to Vicky, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. If you have suggestions of future episodes for PODCASTS, we'd love to hear what those suggestions are. We love to cover those subjects if we're able, and so please reach out to us. Please, ruse, leave us a review if you're willing to do that would be a blessing to us. But until next time, God bless God, bless give me our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you