A Mom Who Chooses Life Miscarries, What Do You Do?

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Sin Me,200:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.789Lord, I am yours, Iam yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel300:00:11.830 --> 00:00:17.390Center pre life podcast, a podcastdesigned to equip, encourage and challenge you400:00:17.510 --> 00:00:21.350in pro life ministry, and alwayswith a focus on the Gospel. Stay500:00:21.429 --> 00:00:36.530tuned. I felt show passish,touch your heart, use me. Welcome600:00:36.570 --> 00:00:40.570to the Gospel Centered Prolife podcast.We appreciate you, guys, joining us.700:00:41.049 --> 00:00:43.729We're going to cover a subject today, as we kind of just jump800:00:43.810 --> 00:00:48.049right into the topic here, thatif you're at in an abortion center for900:00:48.170 --> 00:00:50.719any length of time, you know, we've made the promise that God will1000:00:50.799 --> 00:00:55.119use you to say babies. You'regoing to see moms choose life and you're1100:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.920going to have interactions with moms.You're likely going to have situations where you're1200:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.000following up with a mom that choselife and even mentoring her in some capacity.1300:01:03.040 --> 00:01:06.510Or, you know, maybe you'rea mentor you're going to be a1400:01:06.590 --> 00:01:10.709mentor yourself, maybe not necessarily,even on the sidewalk, you're mentoring a1500:01:10.750 --> 00:01:15.030mom that chose life within your churchor whatever. This is a situation that1600:01:15.629 --> 00:01:19.340you're likely to encounter at some point. You probably will if you're out there1700:01:19.340 --> 00:01:23.060any length of time. Yeah,and it's a situation where you've had a1800:01:23.180 --> 00:01:29.579mom that has chosen life but thenshe has a miscarriage. Yeah, like,1900:01:29.939 --> 00:01:32.340how do you handle that? Howdo you how do you, how2000:01:32.379 --> 00:01:36.689do you process that? MMM,personally for yourself, how do you minister2100:01:36.849 --> 00:01:40.890to her? Right, you know, I'll just cheer. Some years back2200:01:41.049 --> 00:01:44.250there was a situation, this wasnot a miscarriage. I think this is2300:01:44.329 --> 00:01:48.359along the same lines of this,where we had a mom that chose life2400:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.920and a father and we were ministeringto them. I mean this is actually2500:01:51.959 --> 00:01:55.040probably been ten years or more,a ghost for even new you, Vicky,2600:01:55.239 --> 00:01:59.280okay, and we ministered this couple, built a relationship with this couple.2700:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.629She ended up having her baby andthen a couple of months later the2800:02:02.750 --> 00:02:08.550baby died from SIDS. Wow,had no clue what even happened. Right2900:02:08.710 --> 00:02:12.909came into the room and the babywas was dead. Yeah, it's like,3000:02:13.150 --> 00:02:15.139how do you process that? Yeah, yeah, how do you minister3100:02:15.300 --> 00:02:20.780to them effectively? Heavy subject,guys, it is, but we're going3200:02:20.819 --> 00:02:23.939to talk through some of our experiences. And Yeah, and really from a3300:02:23.979 --> 00:02:28.340Biblical, of course, Gospel centeredperspective. Yeah, you can how you3400:02:28.379 --> 00:02:30.969can navigate through this effectively? Right, yeah, it's happened to me many3500:02:31.009 --> 00:02:38.129times. It happened to one ofour national missionaries very recently and she texted3600:02:38.210 --> 00:02:39.770me and said, I don't knowwhat to say, I don't know what3700:02:39.849 --> 00:02:44.289to say to her. Can Canyou guide me? So that's what kind3800:02:44.289 --> 00:02:49.360of sparked this is that, asin many of these really rough situations,3900:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.000sometimes she just just really there areno words. Yeah, but I think4000:02:53.039 --> 00:02:58.199there are principles that that we canpass along so that you're prepared, yeah,4100:02:58.240 --> 00:03:02.229for for if that happens, inevitably, whether they voiced it or not,4200:03:02.990 --> 00:03:07.069they have to be questioning God.Yeah, they have to be there.4300:03:07.150 --> 00:03:09.789Well, I mean I think let'sacknowledge to that. We ourselves.4400:03:09.870 --> 00:03:14.979We're questioning, yeah, God now, Ye, not questioning his goodness.4500:03:15.379 --> 00:03:17.860Yeah, maybe, I certainly thinkit's on it. It's good to get4600:03:17.979 --> 00:03:22.860honest before God. Yeah, readthe Psalms and you'll see David getting very4700:03:23.020 --> 00:03:25.979honest before God. And so insome sense that gives us an allowance just4800:03:27.060 --> 00:03:30.169to be honest to God, likewhere are you in the situation? Yeah,4900:03:30.090 --> 00:03:32.289and so I think it's important,of course, for us to get5000:03:32.289 --> 00:03:36.729honest before the Lord, get honestwith our feelings so that we can minister5100:03:36.810 --> 00:03:42.800ourselves from a place of experience andrelationship to the Lord, so that we5200:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.879can bring these women into a relationshipwith the Lord. I will say this5300:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.960even before we get into the meatof this. Some of you guys that5400:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.439are brand new to this ministry,this wasn't even on your radar. Is5500:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.590something that could happen, right,and I think just US bringing this conversation5600:03:57.669 --> 00:04:00.870up is going to be helpful and, yeah, making you aware that this5700:04:00.030 --> 00:04:04.389is something that can happen. Yeah, to have it, as a friend5800:04:04.430 --> 00:04:08.710of mine says, on your preyedare like to be praying, preparing your5900:04:08.750 --> 00:04:12.860heart. Right, it's potentially happeningnow. Of course we want to just6000:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.819have faith and trust the Lord andand of course, knowing his goodness that6100:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.980maybe, maybe, you'll never experiencethis. I hope that you guys that6200:04:20.060 --> 00:04:24.410are ministering on the sidewalk, theMOMS that you minister to, I hope6300:04:24.490 --> 00:04:27.970that you never experienced this. Yeah, but we do want to prepare you6400:04:28.689 --> 00:04:31.569for if you do experience this.And in the years that we've been involved6500:04:31.569 --> 00:04:34.370in this, we've experienced this acouple of different times. So right.6600:04:34.850 --> 00:04:39.120Yeah. Well, also, evenif you don't experience some of that,6700:04:39.279 --> 00:04:44.319actually does miscarrier, the baby dies, at some point that you're working with6800:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.079them, you probably will hear itanyway. Yeah, as an excuse and6900:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.040a lie. And and that isalways in the back of my mind.7000:04:51.240 --> 00:04:56.110Are they telling the truth? Didthey really miscarry or did they go and7100:04:56.230 --> 00:04:59.910have an abortion and they're ashamed?Yeah, to tell me. Either way,7200:04:59.949 --> 00:05:04.990the response would probably be the samebecause, at least in the way7300:05:05.110 --> 00:05:09.860that this article that we're going toput out with this podcast is written,7400:05:11.339 --> 00:05:15.819the the intention is for healing andredemption. Yeah, and that would be7500:05:15.939 --> 00:05:23.649true whether they took the life ofthat child themself or whether that child miscarried7600:05:24.649 --> 00:05:29.649through, you know, an actualmiscarriage, or died of some other,7700:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.129some other reason. And as inall these cases, you know, the7800:05:33.329 --> 00:05:38.759very first step is to grieve withthe mother. Yeah, to grieve with7900:05:38.839 --> 00:05:42.120the other and it going back towhat? What if she's lying? Well,8000:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.240by the fact that you are grievingover the death of that child speaks8100:05:46.399 --> 00:05:51.750volumes of what you feel about thesanctity of that child's life. So already8200:05:53.389 --> 00:05:58.110you're paving the way, even ifshe's lying for the fact that that child8300:05:58.189 --> 00:06:03.029had value and worth and that thisis sad. Yeah, I want to8400:06:03.980 --> 00:06:08.860just hone in real quick on whatyou're talking about because, again, this8500:06:09.019 --> 00:06:12.180may not even be on you guysradar, right, but there are situations8600:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.980in which a woman that you're incontact with because she chose life on the8700:06:15.019 --> 00:06:20.089sidewalk, you'r mentoring her, followingup with her or whatever, and she8800:06:20.290 --> 00:06:25.370says that she's miscarried when, inreality, and we know this from experience,8900:06:25.769 --> 00:06:28.810he actually had the abortion, shewent back to the abortion clinic.9000:06:28.850 --> 00:06:30.970Or when she reached out to youand said that she chose life, she9100:06:31.089 --> 00:06:35.680actually had already taken the abortion pilland, you know it, was regretting9200:06:35.720 --> 00:06:41.759it and trying to like hopefully hopingthat that that abortion peop wouldn't take effect,9300:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.800and then she ends up miscarrying becauseof that right. So, anyway,9400:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.470I hope you guys see there's allthese kind of intricacies that go on,9500:06:48.870 --> 00:06:53.029things that you need to be awareof and prepared for, but at9600:06:53.069 --> 00:06:55.750the end of the day, youdon't know what you don't know. So9700:06:55.870 --> 00:07:00.430if she's telling you that she's miscarried, then minister her to her like that9800:07:00.660 --> 00:07:04.300that's the case, because that's right. Quite possibly that is the case.9900:07:04.459 --> 00:07:09.379Right, right, he's had amiscarriage and so, as the Bible says,10000:07:09.660 --> 00:07:12.660rejoice with those who rejoice and mournwith those who mourned. We need10100:07:12.740 --> 00:07:16.889to grieve with that mom. She'slost her baby. Yeah, and one10200:07:16.930 --> 00:07:23.170of the first things that I willoften say, with the griefain and the10300:07:23.250 --> 00:07:29.370expression of deep sorrow for her andfor that child, at some point in10400:07:29.449 --> 00:07:34.959the beginning conversation I'll often bring upthe fact that is it's not on it's10500:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.839not your fault. Yeah, you, you can have the assurance that,10600:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.629even if she's taken the abortion pill, but she has then tried the abortion10700:07:45.629 --> 00:07:49.189pill reversal and in the end thechild dies, you tried as hard as10800:07:49.230 --> 00:07:54.269you could to save that child's lifeand it is while you you may be10900:07:54.430 --> 00:08:00.019intended to take that child's life,and that certainly is is not of God,11000:08:00.139 --> 00:08:03.540that intention, but you backed offfrom that and and you are not11100:08:03.740 --> 00:08:07.980responsible for that child's death. Andyou you do you won't carry that burden11200:08:09.060 --> 00:08:13.689on your conscience and and I'm sograteful that you don't have that burden.11300:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.009Yeah, that you did. Youdid what you intended to do. Yeah,11400:08:18.689 --> 00:08:24.410the big question in situations like thisis why, right, I mean11500:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.720that's that's where it always goes tofor the mom and again even for us.11600:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.559Yeah, wow, why? Wewere there at the abortion center.11700:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.200Yep, this mother, right beforeshe was about to go in and intentionally11800:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.440take the life of her baby,chose life. Some of them we've even11900:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.070had. They surrender their life toJesus. Right. Right. So,12000:08:43.269 --> 00:08:48.549God, why did you allow this? Why did this happen? And I12100:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.909think we put ourselves in a trapsometimes when we try to answer that question12200:08:52.269 --> 00:08:56.139why, because at the end ofthe day, we we don't know.12300:08:56.700 --> 00:09:01.100We don't know, and sometimes myanswer in those situations to myself, as12400:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.500I'm asking the question why, sometimesmy answer is, well, sometimes life12500:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.850sucks. Yeah, now, Iwouldn't say that necessarily to a mom.12600:09:11.970 --> 00:09:15.769My answer to that question why wouldbe something to the effect of we don't12700:09:15.850 --> 00:09:20.529always know why God allows the thingsthat he allows, right, but we12800:09:20.649 --> 00:09:24.960can trust that God is good.Yeah, God didn't. And here's where12900:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.200we kind of conflate things that justbecause God allows something, we necessarily think13000:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.200that God causes it. When God, God didn't, calls your baby to13100:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.320die. God didn't cause the miscarriagejust as much as if you'd had an13200:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.070abortion. God didn't cause you tohave the abortion. Right, there's there's13300:09:41.149 --> 00:09:45.909things that happen and always will.kind of bring it around to the fact13400:09:45.909 --> 00:09:48.470that we live in a fallen world. This is a fallen world. Yeah,13500:09:50.269 --> 00:09:54.259and if you look in the Bibleyou'll see sort of consistently, I13600:09:54.299 --> 00:09:56.580would say, miscarriage is not viewedas a good thing. That that doesn't13700:09:56.659 --> 00:10:00.820mean that we need to be carefullthe way that we communicate that to the13800:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.019women. We're not saying because ofyour sin, because that's where some of13900:10:03.100 --> 00:10:07.929them go. Well, I sendby going to the abortion center and even14000:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.730though I turned around, I stillstill sinned by going there. God's not14100:10:11.889 --> 00:10:15.450punishing you. This kind of idea, almost like of Karma or something that14200:10:15.850 --> 00:10:18.370some, even some believers, putsome stock in. That's that's not how14300:10:18.490 --> 00:10:22.679God operates, right. God's notpunishing you. Yeah, because of something14400:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.720that you repented of. You youturned away from abortion. Y be punishing14500:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.200you for that. But again,I think it is a grasping for that14600:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.039question. Answer to that question why? And I think we do need to14700:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.230be honest and say, I don'tknow why. Yeah, and the Bible14800:10:37.269 --> 00:10:43.029doesn't necessarily give us an ABCD answer. Hey, does tell us that God14900:10:43.149 --> 00:10:48.070is good and miscarriage is bad.Hey, therefore God didn't do it.15000:10:48.590 --> 00:10:52.860God wants to come for you inthe midst of it, and he can.15100:10:52.179 --> 00:10:56.980And so, thinking through that,then, well, what is the15200:10:56.059 --> 00:11:01.019Biblical Comfort? And I think Igo to the story of David and Bath15300:11:01.139 --> 00:11:05.570Sheba, where they they were insin, they were in an adulterous relationship15400:11:05.610 --> 00:11:11.409in the baby conceived did die.Yeah, and and David had repented of15500:11:11.490 --> 00:11:18.370that sin with Beth Sheba and hecertainly petitioned for the child's life in prayer,15600:11:18.759 --> 00:11:24.039but the child did die. Yeah, and the comfort in that story.15700:11:24.919 --> 00:11:31.279First of all, my motivation inevery interaction really with everyone, but15800:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.909especially with with the women we encounterthe abortion center, is to bring him15900:11:35.909 --> 00:11:41.789to a saving understanding of Jesus anda submission of a life to Jesus,16000:11:43.070 --> 00:11:48.139and this situation, tragic and horribleand awful as it is, can actually16100:11:48.179 --> 00:11:56.580become a way to bring comfort throughthe Gospel and help them to understand why16200:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.299they so desperately need a savior.And one of the things I'll bring up16300:12:00.379 --> 00:12:05.610in the David and Bathsheba story iswhere David says when the baby dies,16400:12:07.049 --> 00:12:09.129David says, but now he hasdied. Why should I fask? Can16500:12:09.169 --> 00:12:13.769I bring him back again? Iwill go to him, but he will16600:12:13.809 --> 00:12:18.799not return to to me. Andand I point out, he understands that16700:12:18.919 --> 00:12:26.480baby's in heaven and he will goto that baby. And that is that16800:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.230is the great hope for you andcomfort for you right now, that you16900:12:31.350 --> 00:12:35.789will see that child again if youhave submitted your life to the Lord.17000:12:35.830 --> 00:12:39.830Yeah, and if you will begoing to heaven. And can I talk17100:12:39.950 --> 00:12:46.220with you about how that is possiblefor all of us? Yeah, so17200:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.019it becomes a wonderful springboard. Ithink you have to be careful, sure,17300:12:50.740 --> 00:12:54.700at the point at which you introducethat, but most of the women17400:12:54.860 --> 00:13:01.490that I have said that with havefound it a comfort and have asked repeatedly,17500:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.570do you think that baby's really inheaven? We did a PODCAST ABOUT17600:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.250DO BABIES GO to heaven? Yeah, and I think our conclusion is yes,17700:13:09.610 --> 00:13:13.919we we think that biblically we couldsupport that. Yeah, absolutely so,17800:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.440and I do hear that. Ihave had actually this has happened to17900:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.799me many times with many of thewomen, and so I've had a,18000:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.909I guess, a lot of experiencein dealing with this. Yeah, so18100:13:30.149 --> 00:13:35.230offering comfort with Biblical truth is always, always valuable. And Yeah, and18200:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.870I mean word, the word ofGod is alive and active and sharper than18300:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.460he two edged sword. It cancut through some of the confusion, it18400:13:43.580 --> 00:13:48.620can cut through some of the whyand the lack of the answer to why18500:13:48.299 --> 00:13:52.460and just bring again the knowledge ofwho God is. And that really is18600:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.009the central focus of the Bible,even who God is. Who is this18700:13:58.250 --> 00:14:03.250God that in the beginning made theheavens and the earth? Who is this18800:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.049God? He is a good Godand he offers redemption. We yes,18900:14:07.129 --> 00:14:11.679we live in a fallen world andthings like miscarriage our result of a fallen19000:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.080world. But God, this Godof the Bible, actually came and intervened19100:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.000to save this lost and dying world, to bring redemption M and then,19200:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.710of course, that redemption comes throughthe Cross and through the resurrection and we19300:14:28.789 --> 00:14:31.230have this eternal hope. And that'swhat we're getting into when we're talking about19400:14:31.230 --> 00:14:39.779the Gospel. Right, right,and often times in these discussions you'll hear19500:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.700why, why do God do this? But the other thing that I think19600:14:41.779 --> 00:14:52.460you hear a lot is self incrimination, sure anger at self and and great19700:14:52.700 --> 00:15:00.370sorrow about what they had intended todo. And and so it. I19800:15:00.690 --> 00:15:07.080think again, it's a beautiful opportunityto express the the truth of our sinful19900:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.360nature and that there is a remedyfor sin. Yeah, and the Truth20000:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.519and hope of the Gospel painting thepicture of one day there will be a20100:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.120place where that all ends, allthe sorrow ends, the tears will and20200:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.909you will be reunited with that childand you will be back in a right20300:15:26.029 --> 00:15:31.149relationship with God. And this ishow you can find that. Yeah,20400:15:31.190 --> 00:15:33.629Yep. I think one of thethings that we do, and this is20500:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.580maybe some advice, not just forthese situations but just in general, when20600:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.059you're dealing with people that are grieving, they're going through a tough time and20700:15:43.139 --> 00:15:48.860they've just had a really tough encounterwith life, yeah, and a fallen20800:15:48.899 --> 00:15:54.889world. Sometimes we want to inkind of answer the question why M and20900:15:54.009 --> 00:15:58.250we want to try to come upwith some reason, try to connect the21000:15:58.370 --> 00:16:03.450dots for people when in reality,going back to that first scripture, rejoice21100:16:03.529 --> 00:16:07.279with those who rejoice and mourn withthose who mourned. Sometimes we just need21200:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.559to keep our mouth shut. And, yeah, listen, we don't always21300:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.399have to. We don't know theanswer. So why would we even try21400:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.360to give the answer to why thishappened? Right, right, so we21500:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.750don't know the answer. Let's justkeep our mouth shut, let's just comfort,21600:16:19.830 --> 00:16:23.149let's just, yeah, you know, hold them. Yeah, give21700:16:23.190 --> 00:16:26.549him a hug, call them,encourage them, you know, Sam a21800:16:26.629 --> 00:16:32.070note, send them flowers or somethinglike that. Yeah, and not try21900:16:32.149 --> 00:16:33.820to answer a question that we don'tknow the answer to, but again,22000:16:34.019 --> 00:16:38.419grieve with him, enter into theirtheir grief and to their sorrow, and22100:16:38.500 --> 00:16:42.019then, of course, pray forthem. Yeah, pray over them,22200:16:42.340 --> 00:16:45.299pray with them. When you're onthe phone, can I pray for you22300:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.570real quick, you know, andjust cover that whole situation in prayer.22400:16:51.210 --> 00:16:55.850God can move in these terrible situations. God can bring a mother who maybe22500:16:55.850 --> 00:17:00.210chose life for her baby but didn'tsurrender her life to Jesus right, and22600:17:00.289 --> 00:17:04.480then this miscarriage happens. God canreally move that situation ultimately to bring that22700:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.440woman to the knowledge of him assavior, kind of like what you talked22800:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.720about sharing that yes, your babyis with the Lord, you can also22900:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.509be with the Lord if you'll surrenderyour life to him. So, yeah,23000:17:15.630 --> 00:17:21.470God it. God is so awesomeand his willingness to redeem any situation23100:17:21.630 --> 00:17:23.589that will put in his hands.But we have to be intentional, as23200:17:23.630 --> 00:17:27.549believers in Jesus, to really putthe situation in his hands and not try23300:17:27.589 --> 00:17:30.859to take ownership of it ourselves.Yeah, like somehow again we have to23400:17:30.980 --> 00:17:36.740answer all of the big questions ofwhy and and all of that stright sometimes23500:17:36.859 --> 00:17:41.180in the discussion. We've often talkedabout that, asking questions as a good23600:17:41.619 --> 00:17:47.289counseling technique and as these people arestruggling oftentimes in the discussion, in especially23700:17:47.369 --> 00:17:51.730when they're in that self and recriminationmode, which usually is the case,23800:17:51.769 --> 00:17:55.930they usually are blaming themselves for aperiod of time. Sometimes they will,23900:17:56.329 --> 00:18:02.119in fact often they will, getto the what brought them there in the24000:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.680first place. Yeah, and almostalways had some sort of sexual sin.24100:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.680Yeah, and if they bring thatup, I actually usually don't shy away24200:18:11.640 --> 00:18:18.670from addressing that, hopefully gently andkindly and with that same, you know,24300:18:19.109 --> 00:18:23.950desire to mourn as they mourn.But I don't want to pass up24400:18:23.990 --> 00:18:32.220an opportunity for life changing revelation.Yeah, and if they're beginning to address24500:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.980and think what was it? Somethingthat I did not directly that killed the24600:18:37.099 --> 00:18:41.849child, but is there's things leadingup to me of her showing up there24700:18:41.930 --> 00:18:47.930in the first place and then reallywrestling with the sin of that and again24800:18:48.289 --> 00:18:52.250with the hope of restoration. Yeah, and leading into a Gospel discussion.24900:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.319So you, I think I reallyhear what you're saying and totally agree with25000:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.839it. Sometimes the best course ofaction truly is just hug them and and25100:19:00.240 --> 00:19:08.720and express sorrow mourn with them.Yeah, but don't close your mind to25200:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.029the opportunity that God might be openingdoors you are supposed to step through,25300:19:14.230 --> 00:19:21.069absolutely in and that can actually bringultimately healing, because dealing there are things25400:19:21.390 --> 00:19:25.140that led them to that abortion centerin the first place, and most of25500:19:25.180 --> 00:19:29.940the time those are sinful. Yeah, and so this might be the vehicle25600:19:30.099 --> 00:19:34.140by which God is allowing that tobe explored. Yeah, yeah, and25700:19:34.259 --> 00:19:38.250that's why, with all of thesesituations, and I guess I think probably25800:19:38.329 --> 00:19:42.970every time we've dealt with these reallydeep situations like this and just in general,25900:19:44.009 --> 00:19:45.650we've encourage you guys like you needto be walking with the Lord,26000:19:47.490 --> 00:19:52.730because God can give you wisdom inthe midst of one of these very grievous26100:19:52.849 --> 00:19:56.880conversations. Yeah, the mother who'slost her baby by miscarriage. Yeah,26200:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.559but he can open the door andgive you some wisdom to kind of speak26300:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.480into. Like you're talking about confrontsin, right, yeah, because we26400:20:04.599 --> 00:20:08.269need to confront sin if we're evergoing to listen, if redemption is ever26500:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.430going to come, there has tobe repentance, right, and an acknowledgment26600:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.869of sin. And you can doit very graciously. You can navigate through26700:20:15.950 --> 00:20:22.740this like, I mean amazingly ifyou're led by the Holy Spirit. But26800:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.980of course it can go completely arriveif you're not careful. So I think26900:20:26.019 --> 00:20:27.500we do need to do the bestwe can to read the situation, to27000:20:27.579 --> 00:20:34.970read the conversation with that mother,to speak encouragement life as much as as27100:20:36.049 --> 00:20:38.730much as possible. Yeah, butthen, like you said, to confront27200:20:40.130 --> 00:20:42.609sin, the sin that led themto the abortion center as that door opens,27300:20:42.849 --> 00:20:47.289and to not shy away and tonot be afraid of it. Right,27400:20:47.329 --> 00:20:51.960right, if it and yeah,I think he is really be relying27500:20:51.960 --> 00:20:57.319on the Holy Spirit, be inthe word and be prepared for this sort27600:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.200of situation, because it will happen. But being gentle and and careful,27700:21:03.349 --> 00:21:07.190because you could, you could doa lot of harm. One I remember27800:21:07.309 --> 00:21:14.029one lady who called me from theear. That's how I knew she wasn't27900:21:14.029 --> 00:21:15.829lying. She said, I'm inthe ear right now. I think I28000:21:17.029 --> 00:21:22.059miss caring. Stayed in touch withme and then when she was discharged hours28100:21:22.099 --> 00:21:25.900later, she was indeed miscarrying andshe came right to the sidewalk to me28200:21:26.019 --> 00:21:30.819and and got out of her carand just sobbing her eyes out. I28300:21:32.220 --> 00:21:33.890lost the baby. All these thingswe've talked about. Why? Why?28400:21:33.970 --> 00:21:38.009Why? I was doing everything,I wanted to do everything right now.28500:21:38.049 --> 00:21:45.490Why would got allow this? Some and the other counselor that had worked28600:21:45.529 --> 00:21:48.960with her, we comforted her asbest we could. She she went home28700:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.559and that counselor and I actually gottogether. I think it was the other28800:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.400councilor's ideas, such a good idea. We got her a memorial bracelet.28900:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.990They make these things on the Internetwith with little feed little hands, I29000:22:03.069 --> 00:22:04.990think, even if you've named thechild, but whatever, they're made for29100:22:06.269 --> 00:22:11.549people who have miscarried and we gother that bracelet and we presented it to29200:22:11.589 --> 00:22:15.660her, I don't know, veryshortly thereafter came right away. I think29300:22:15.660 --> 00:22:23.140we got it from Amazon, andshe was very touched. But also a29400:22:23.299 --> 00:22:27.099few months later, she maybe itwas even a year later, she was29500:22:27.259 --> 00:22:32.970pregnant again and she came back tothe abortion center, but not for an29600:22:32.970 --> 00:22:37.569abortion, to say I will noteven consider abortion with this child. And29700:22:37.769 --> 00:22:44.130she trusted us and she knew thatwe cared and had her best interest in29800:22:44.210 --> 00:22:48.480heart because of that little act ofkindness. Yeah, and so you know,29900:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.839it was paving the way for Ican't remember if she was still in30000:22:55.079 --> 00:22:57.200sin or if she was married atthat point or what. I honestly don't30100:22:57.319 --> 00:23:03.829remember, but at least abortion wasoff the table with with that next child.30200:23:03.029 --> 00:23:10.869So God can use and will useterrible things for his purposes and and30300:23:11.109 --> 00:23:15.059for good, and he did inthat situation. Yeah. So, you30400:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.259know, bringing the hope of Godinto the situation is kind of the bottom30500:23:18.299 --> 00:23:22.940line in absolutely when, whenever youcan, and he will always make a30600:23:23.019 --> 00:23:26.690way for you to be able todo that. Yeah, yeah, and30700:23:27.049 --> 00:23:30.809that is the goal, right.The goal was not, again, just30800:23:30.009 --> 00:23:36.250answer the question why, because wedon't know why. The goal is to30900:23:36.410 --> 00:23:40.450bring the hope of the Gospel,the hope of who God is into that31000:23:40.609 --> 00:23:47.559situation. We are not the saviorof this mom right, we're not going31100:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.000to fix her situation, we're notgoing to answer all her questions. M31200:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.069The best we can do is pointher to the God who is her savior.31300:23:56.589 --> 00:24:00.069She'll put her trust in him,who does have the answers, to31400:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.589point her to a relationship. Andwe all know that in our lives there31500:24:03.630 --> 00:24:07.349are things that we encounter. Someof you maybe that are listening, you're31600:24:07.430 --> 00:24:10.819on the sidewalk and you've had miscarriages, and we and our family had a31700:24:10.900 --> 00:24:15.500miscarriage and it was a very,very difficult situation to deal with. Yeah,31800:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.980and we ask the questions why.But what do we do? We31900:24:18.059 --> 00:24:22.619learn to cling to Jesus more closely. Right, and if we can teach32000:24:22.740 --> 00:24:27.569these women, we can point them, disciple them, mentor them into clinging32100:24:27.730 --> 00:24:32.410tightly to Jesus, then we've donewhat we're called to do. Yeah,32200:24:32.529 --> 00:24:36.170we're not called to answer all thequestions and we're not called to calm all32300:24:36.210 --> 00:24:41.160the storms. We're not called tobe the redeemer ourselves, right, but32400:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.000to point them to the one whois the redeemer, the Lord Jesus.32500:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.839Now, yeah, there are thingsout there. I'm nothing really is popping32600:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.720up in my mind right now asfar as literature and things like that,32700:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.670but there are certainly websites and theirministries. They're involved in healing after miscarriages32800:24:56.710 --> 00:25:00.910and things like that. Maybe ifwe can dig for some of those resources.32900:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.789I know of some, but Ijust can't think of the particular names33000:25:03.869 --> 00:25:06.710on top of my head. Yeah, we'll try to put those in the33100:25:06.789 --> 00:25:11.500show notes on the podcast. Certainlyyou guys can can google that and find33200:25:11.539 --> 00:25:14.700some ministries you can point these womento that maybe can get more in depth.33300:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.099I'm sure there's some healing Bible studiesand things that are out there right33400:25:18.339 --> 00:25:22.130they can help, but at theend of the day, again, it's33500:25:22.250 --> 00:25:26.250pointing them to the redeemer, tothe Savior, to the Lord Jesus,33600:25:26.690 --> 00:25:32.690and discipling them mentoring them in that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I33700:25:32.890 --> 00:25:36.519know when I was a new counselorand and I faced this. I've faced33800:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.680this, I guess, more timesthan maybe most people, but I remember33900:25:40.920 --> 00:25:45.839feeling well, these MOMS are properlyrelieved. They were coming to kill their34000:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.910baby. I'll bet they're relieved thatthey are miscarrying. But that is not34100:25:51.630 --> 00:25:56.430the case. They in fact mayfeel more grief. Yeah, because they34200:25:56.470 --> 00:26:00.990were so close to take in thatchiuse life themselves and they have now,34300:26:02.750 --> 00:26:07.619you know, doubled down in theirmaternal instincts following that, and it it34400:26:07.140 --> 00:26:11.380so, it it's in many ways, you would treat them as you would34500:26:11.420 --> 00:26:17.579treat anyone who it's struggling with havingmiscarried a baby. Yeah, yeah,34600:26:17.819 --> 00:26:23.329absolutely. And another thing that Iwould try to get them to is get34700:26:23.410 --> 00:26:29.210them to get plugged into a localchurch. Give them to you, because34800:26:29.210 --> 00:26:32.529they need a body of believers.Invite them to your church. If you're34900:26:32.609 --> 00:26:37.000able to do that, maybe maybethey have a mentor, if you're part35000:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.880of love life and you got themconnected to a mentor, that mentor would35100:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.000invite them. I mean just thefact that they are no longer going to35200:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.509have a baby and we aren't goingto do a baby shower and that sort35300:26:47.549 --> 00:26:51.630of thing doesn't mean we drop themas a mentor. Right. We want35400:26:51.670 --> 00:26:55.509to invite them to church when tosurround them the love of the local church,35500:26:56.269 --> 00:26:59.990and so just being intentional about that. Be Intentional because I know for35600:27:00.109 --> 00:27:03.299us, when we encounter situations specially, and I think that's why this podcast35700:27:03.339 --> 00:27:07.619is important especially situation that we didn'treally account for. We don't know how35800:27:07.660 --> 00:27:11.460to respond and we just kind ofshut down ourselves. Right, I don't35900:27:11.500 --> 00:27:14.380how to respond to this woman.I don't know how. I mean,36000:27:14.420 --> 00:27:15.329I thought she was going to behaving a baby. I thought we were36100:27:15.329 --> 00:27:18.170going to do a baby shower.We yeah, yeah, you're excited about36200:27:18.210 --> 00:27:22.410this, and now this is notgoing to happen. I'm an awkward situation.36300:27:22.569 --> 00:27:26.049I don't know how to answer allthe questions. Be Intentional about reaching36400:27:26.089 --> 00:27:29.210out. Yeah, be intentional aboutinviting her to church, surrounding her.36500:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.559The conversations don't always have to bearound the miscarriage. It don't always have36600:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.440to be around the relationship and lightof her having a baby, like minister36700:27:38.599 --> 00:27:42.960to her as a woman who needsthe Lord, who needs encouragement and all36800:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.829of that stuff. Invite her toBible Studies and Church events and that sort36900:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.509of thing, and just surround her, because one of the things that can37000:27:49.509 --> 00:27:53.990happen in these situations is people canisolate themselves. Hey, and that's really37100:27:55.069 --> 00:27:59.859where the devil gets in and bringsall this confusion in chaos. Yeah,37200:28:00.099 --> 00:28:03.819so, yes, I mean intentionalabout inviting them and reaching out to them37300:28:03.019 --> 00:28:07.299and not again, not trying toanswer all their questions while but just bringing37400:28:07.299 --> 00:28:10.819them to the saviors important. Yeah, I think a few weeks ago we37500:28:10.980 --> 00:28:15.450talked about the mom of twins whothe twins came prematurely and they both died.37600:28:15.009 --> 00:28:19.769And what happened to her in theimmediate aftermath is the danger. She37700:28:21.289 --> 00:28:27.759spiraled really down. Yeah, reallydown, fullblown rebellion and sorrow, rebellion37800:28:27.799 --> 00:28:33.200from God, questioning God's sorrow anddespair, and did some really bad things37900:28:34.119 --> 00:28:40.240and and came out of it that. She did stay in touch with us,38000:28:40.400 --> 00:28:44.630fortunately, and so there was contactwith her, pointing her back to38100:28:44.750 --> 00:28:48.430God pretty continually and about two yearslater had really come full circle. Her38200:28:48.549 --> 00:28:53.470life was restored, she's marriage isa new baby now and now she looks38300:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.900back at that time period and theamazing thing is in the midst of that38400:28:59.220 --> 00:29:03.779terrible situation she actually sees the handof God and she sees where he rescued38500:29:03.819 --> 00:29:10.170her and where he really had lovinglynever let go of her. She had38600:29:10.210 --> 00:29:15.250run from him. Yeah, soremembering that, that, that is what38700:29:15.450 --> 00:29:21.170every person that we interact with needs, is is to someone to be there38800:29:21.890 --> 00:29:26.240if they spiral down or not.Any way, anyway about it, someone38900:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.079to be there constantly bringing them backto the truth of who God is and39000:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.319that he does love them, despitesometimes when it doesn't feel like it.39100:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.670Yeah, Amen, Amen. Well, we hope this was a blessing you,39200:29:38.750 --> 00:29:41.549guys. We hope that you were. I mean, this is not39300:29:41.829 --> 00:29:47.509necessarily the most encouraging subject, butcertainly to be a are of something that39400:29:47.630 --> 00:29:51.950you might encounter can be an encouragement. Have Your Heart in your mind prepared39500:29:52.029 --> 00:29:56.299for that and if you do encounterwith these situations, hopefully you've been equipped39600:29:56.339 --> 00:30:00.339to deal with that situation. We'dcertainly be more than willing to answer any39700:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.180questions that you have along the linesof this podcast episode or other episodes that39800:30:03.220 --> 00:30:06.619we've done. You could reach outto us. Reach out to me,39900:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.289Daniel Love Life Dot Org. Youreach out to Vicky, Vicky at Love40000:30:10.369 --> 00:30:15.809Life Dot Org. If you havesuggestions of future episodes for PODCASTS, we'd40100:30:15.849 --> 00:30:18.049love to hear what those suggestions are. We love to cover those subjects if40200:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.519we're able, and so please reachout to us. Please, ruse,40300:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.240leave us a review if you're willingto do that would be a blessing to40400:30:26.319 --> 00:30:34.119us. But until next time,God bless God, bless give me our40500:30:34.440 --> 00:30:47.630love for love. Give me ourlove for gratitude. I know it will40600:30:47.789 --> 00:30:56.259cost me my life. Nothing's tooprecious in some you